smickles: that's all anyone needs to know
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P110T] 4 @ 0.09250713 = 0.37 BTC [-]
Diablo-D3: so we can declare war on other websites and then show up at their workplace with a tank.
smickles: what would a virtual military be composed of Diablo-D3 ?
Ukto: any more news since earlier?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35972 @ 0.00031192 = 11.2204 BTC [-]
smickles: alright, it seems that the total red tape fees will be 75 usd
smickles: ;;sell 6.25 BTC at 12 USD each
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be identified via GPG to use the order book.
smickles: ;;sell 6.25 BTC at 12 USD each
jcpham: so relative to this channel
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16980 @ 0.00031355 = 5.3241 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3620 @ 0.00031365 = 1.1354 BTC [+]
dub: why does kludge not have scammer tag?
rdponticelli: Anyway, he defaulted, but I don't think he's a scammer
BTC-Mining: because I think it was in his terms that in case of default, he'd pay back on mining or something like that.
BTC-Mining: Except repayment by mining would take years.
BTC-Mining: But there was no timespan defined for repayment
BTC-Mining: So as such... well he can take his time repaying
dub: jcpham: pics of raritys neice tbh
rdponticelli: Well, about cooperating with law enforcement, wich implies that law enforcement is involved
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23279 @ 0.00031365 = 7.3015 BTC [+]
dub: one sleep till pirate pays out
Azelphur: also inb4 more delaying tactics
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30628 @ 0.00031301 = 9.5869 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30346 @ 0.00031028 = 9.4158 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15126 @ 0.0003101 = 4.6906 BTC [-]
BTC-Mining: You have to relive the day until you manage to get Pirateat40 to pay. Because payment is always tomorrow until then.
rdponticelli: Yeah, I'm sure that bitcoin script has been shooted by Harold Raimis
rdponticelli: Nice thing is that you can kill yourself as many times as you like in the middle
BTC-Mining: Maybe nefario decided AML was not required...
BTC-Mining: Yeah, better get prepared for accounting without GLBSE
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46900 @ 0.00031365 = 14.7102 BTC [+]
gribble: Current Blocks: 202732 | Current Difficulty: timed out | Next Difficulty At Block: 203615 | Next Difficulty In: 883 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 2 hours, 11 minutes, and 8 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 3035559.56035946 | Estimated Percent Change: -0.624232133735
gribble: Best bid: 12.0008, Best ask: 12.08, Bid-ask spread: 0.07920, Last trade: 12.0008, 24 hour volume: 27614, 24 hour low: 11.759, 24 hour high: 12.19
smickles: i just did the s2cm account, no docs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1827 @ 0.00031365 = 0.573 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10373 @ 0.00031413 = 3.2585 BTC [+]
pigeons: of so nefario took his meds
Azelphur: apparently my claim is finished
Azelphur: smickles: did you get S2CM data yet?
Azelphur: would be funny if everything pays out on friday
Doffx: Since its my birthday on oct 12 I expect everyone in here to send 1 btc, that will be 7 more btc than what pirate owes me with 116 people in here.
Doffx: Azelphur should send 2
Doffx: cash day for sure that way :)
smickles: huh, he left w/o giving a receiving addy
smickles: wait a tic, mutum sigilum is an EVE ONLINE corp?
smickles: with a description of "FOR THE LULZ"
smickles: bitcoin is a MMORPG, just like mircea_popescu said
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10427 @ 0.00031413 = 3.2754 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11152 @ 0.00031421 = 3.5041 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10842 @ 0.00031433 = 3.408 BTC [+]
smickles: i need a favor. can someone send 6.25 btc to an addy for me, I'll repay you tomorrow
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10423 @ 0.00031167 = 3.2485 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7677 @ 0.00031075 = 2.3856 BTC [-]
smickles: 13bVm9NuHhYASYyXcbYHLqmfQeZ2XSaD7u
smickles: my client went silly, and I think i need to reload the chain to fix it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5223 @ 0.00031075 = 1.623 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00031048 = 3.0427 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25777 @ 0.00031028 = 7.9981 BTC [-]
dub: pirate pays out tomorrow, smickles pays out tomorrow.... coincidence?
dub: occams razor, kekeke
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21023 @ 0.00031028 = 6.523 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36677 @ 0.0003101 = 11.3735 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: ;;gpg everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:cca7968273a95c153fb1b5cd24c5fb449204644a24fbfcaa0a2f90cc
gribble: You are now authenticated for user thestringpuller with key 0FF2943DA179E169
gribble: This user has not yet been rated. Currently authenticated from hostmask thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-98-185.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net .
thestringpuller: how much of your day do you spend on irc mp (that's my nickname for you mircea_popescu)
mircea_popescu: you're not the only one calling me mp lol. and as long as the computer's on i have irc going.
thestringpuller: It's tough I just started writing the verilog based on a paper I read
thestringpuller: gonna take months with my professor helping to get a single "chip"
thestringpuller: The second glbse went under I sold a bunch of bitcoins, then waited and bought them back at a cheaper price...
thestringpuller: You've probably been asked this many times before mp, but how does GLBSE being shutdown make you feel?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller well, tbh, relieved. it was the main threat to having a btc finacials market. the longer it dragged on the worse it was.
mircea_popescu: course, sucks for all the people who wouldn't listen / knew better / whatever.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29400 @ 0.00031091 = 9.1408 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34425 @ 0.00031207 = 10.743 BTC [+]
BTC-Mining: Hey... GLBSE was the best trading platform (not for investing, for making trades)
BTC-Mining: I was getting almost pirate rates without the pirate stocks.
BTC-Mining: My wallet didn't find it to be a problem at all.
bitcoinbear: so, have glbse asse holders heard anything yet?
mircea_popescu: yeah. if you go to the casino and make a lot of money your wallet might not complain
mircea_popescu: right. from a macro perspective the thing was harmful.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, im sure plenty of people made money bilking the idiots who thought they're investors.
bitcoinbear: him trading helps decrease the spread (somewhat), making the market more stable
thestringpuller: I lost 20 btc, but I've been mining with free electricity, so it's a drop
BTC-Mining: It's not casinoing if the asset has a base value through profit sharing. The wild price fluctuations just make it much easier to buy below market value and resell it far above market value.
thestringpuller: for something that didn't have a lot of market depth, GLBSE had a sizable volume of outstanding shares.
BTC-Mining: Most shares sold and weren't trading much afterward
thestringpuller: BTC-Mining isn't that how market makers make their money, via the bid-ask spread?
BTC-Mining: when the bid-ask spread is 10% - 80% and the trading fee is 0.5% but only for the one selling/buying into orders...
mircea_popescu: actually, take mpoe.etf. a DAY before it being unwound (at like 1.2x)
mircea_popescu: so not for a second do i consider that "market" in any way related to any economics.
bitcoinbear: but you could make money off the randomness
mircea_popescu: had nothing to do with btc finance, or finance at all.
mircea_popescu: the continuing pretense that it did however, was very harmful for everyone.
bitcoinbear: like nefario said, it was meant to be a toy
mircea_popescu: thinking going to the casino = participating in the economy is damaging.
bitcoinbear: I wish he would move faster so we could just be done with the whole thing
BTC-Mining: mircea, that's exactly the point, it's not casino odds if a mining asset pays for x each week but the randomness makes it go 50% under the market rate per mhash then a few days later 50% over market rate.
thestringpuller: Don't casinos make a lot of money mircea_popescu? Like Las Vegas for instance, the Bellagio just rakes in money.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller actually these days casinos are doing very poorly.
bitcoinbear: anybody want to buy 10 BDK.BND shares at the low price of 0.08?
mircea_popescu: bad 3 or so years. if it keeps up you'll see bankruptcies
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller playing satoshidice isn't investing tho.
thestringpuller: I don't know if you've ever seen the Chappelle Show, but there was an episode where this guy came into a lot of money, played a dice game, and won, so he had tons of money.
thestringpuller: Like if you won the lottery, then put it all on double 0 at the casino and won again. But then again I guess it's all "casinoing"
bitcoinbear: btc-mining, was it you who was always outbidding me by a single satoshi? drove me nuts
BTC-Mining: I kept outbidding by one satoshi and people kept outbidding me by one satoshi, I was going nuts making people go nuts.
mircea_popescu: maybe you folks just need some better masturbation material.
bitcoinbear: I refused to bid out more than 4 significant digits
bitcoinbear: page loads, 2 sec if you were lucky. it made me feel like I was back in 1993 or something
BTC-Mining: It was due to GLBSE being quite spread up
smickles: < dub> pirate pays out tomorrow, smickles pays out tomorrow.... coincidence? <<< lolwut?
smickles: also, most of my stuff isn't here yet, i'm using a stepstool with a couple of rags for padding as my seat
smickles: and this is where my accounting company will start
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2251 @ 0.00031207 = 0.7025 BTC [+]
smickles: i sold some btc earlier to pay licensing and registration fees
rdponticelli: You're supposed to raise a ton of money and run away
smickles: rdponticelli: if i need to raise funds, you'll be the first one i make an offer to, m'kay?
gribble: Best bid: 12.00104, Best ask: 12.05, Bid-ask spread: 0.04896, Last trade: 12.05, 24 hour volume: 27195, 24 hour low: 11.8029, 24 hour high: 12.19
smickles: [\\\]: did you miss us at sub-11 earlier?
[\\\]: but if it drops to $2, I'm gonna buy 50k btc
[\\\]: That's what the AMEX is for
Diablo-D3: banks maliciously reverse loans within a week after they credit check you a second time
[\\\]: thats why you wait 3 weeks
Diablo-D3: they claim "to prevent fraud", but the only fraud going on is their actions since they already signed the papers
Diablo-D3: Ive heard of banks doing it after 3 MONTHS
mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3 prolly a pretty penny to be made from sueing then
Diablo-D3: sometimes you have judges going along with it
Diablo-D3: not sure if they're just inept or they're in the bank's pocket
smickles: mircea_popescu: is that the one that is similar to wherewolf?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1249 @ 0.00031242 = 0.3902 BTC [+]
Diablo-D3: oh fuck comments already go straight to south park
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21473 @ 0.00031079 = 6.6736 BTC [-]
dub: Diablo-D3: remake a movie with it
dub: gak, I want to shoot thos imgur commenters more that I want to shoot everyone on btctalk
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25227 @ 0.00031079 = 7.8403 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10373 @ 0.0003101 = 3.2167 BTC [-]
Ukto: so did nefario open things up ?
Ukto: still didnt enable password recovery though :/
dub: dont forget your password
Ukto: i havent logged in since my account was emptied from the "hack" in may
Ukto: i somehow dont think I was :P
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23235 @ 0.0003101 = 7.2052 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7832 @ 0.0003101 = 2.4287 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1300 @ 0.00031008 = 0.4031 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29233 @ 0.00031 = 9.0622 BTC [-]
smickles: omg, i'm rocking a 128k connection
smickles: lol, for the fun of it, i fired up cgminer and pointed it at my client,
Ukto: smickles: a hotel I stayed in Japan last april, was still on an ISDN modem
Ukto: that was about 12yrs old
smickles: it said "Accepted c5b1c47c.155918dc" and for a moment, my heart raced as i thought i hit a block
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67796 @ 0.00031017 = 21.0283 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8804 @ 0.0003109 = 2.7372 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BVPS] 500 @ 0.00320653 = 1.6033 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BVPS] 35 @ 0.00316891 = 0.1109 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.0003109 = 10.3841 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7400 @ 0.00031046 = 2.2974 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1350 @ 0.0003109 = 0.4197 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 135 @ 0.0032 = 0.432 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24397 @ 0.0003109 = 7.585 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26203 @ 0.00031282 = 8.1968 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P140T] 2 @ 0.23231876 = 0.4646 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P140T] 1 @ 0.23049622 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [B.MPCD.C] 150 @ 0.00076466 = 0.1147 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C120N] 2 @ 0.23654313 = 0.4731 BTC [+]
BTC-Mining: [01:17] <mircea_popescu> 35911.75164BTC total volume
BTC-Mining: Sounds awfully wrong since GIGAMINING alone sold 40k bonds at 1 BTC or more and had like twice that volume.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25100 @ 0.00031046 = 7.7925 BTC [-]
BTC-Mining: 2823.6BTC total revenue from trading fees
BTC-Mining: I remember calculating it as higher than that however.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5976 @ 0.00031149 = 1.8615 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10800 @ 0.00031046 = 3.353 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43867 @ 0.00031 = 13.5988 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4733 @ 0.00030994 = 1.4669 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00031034 = 0.8069 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37300 @ 0.00031032 = 11.5749 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00030994 = 9.9801 BTC [-]
jurov: coinbr was updated, check it.. just few kinks to iron and we can do official announcement
jurov: but referrals are already working
FabianB: jurov: cool :), will check later after work
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2567 @ 0.00030994 = 0.7956 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11633 @ 0.00030992 = 3.6053 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10600 @ 0.00031034 = 3.2896 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40156 @ 0.00031034 = 12.462 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44467 @ 0.00030992 = 13.7812 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22054 @ 0.00030983 = 6.833 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1268 @ 0.00031034 = 0.3935 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35300 @ 0.00031036 = 10.9557 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00031079 = 2.8282 BTC [+]
copumpkin: Chaang-Noi: it proved to be too technically challenging
copumpkin: I dunno, all I know is that for a while he had a form up and then he took it down
Chaang-Noi: i guess it was not a legal demand after all
Chaang-Noi: i wonder what is going on in his head right now...
Chaang-Noi: also i wonder what the SEC will do now that glbse closed down
Chaang-Noi: i wonder if they will still go after them or just walk away
copumpkin: "yeah, sure, you were hacking up kidnapped hookers for years before, but you appear to have stopped, so I guess you're good. Sorry for the unpleasant chase!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39500 @ 0.0003121 = 12.328 BTC [+]
Chaang-Noi: sometimes they act to stop an activity
Chaang-Noi: but glbse said they were wrong to be doing what they were doing, it just does not add that headline pop
Chaang-Noi: fed shut down already closed exchange...
Chaang-Noi: now if glbse was a terrorist operation sure...
Chaang-Noi: but trading btc and all that shit? its not going to be an easy case i bet
copumpkin: well, the crime was already committed, and they can claim that many people were defrauded as a result of the unregulated exchange operating for so long
copumpkin: due to all the fraudulent unregulated securities issued on it
Chaang-Noi: and really the SEc going after this will make the right wing nuts in the usa take a hard look at btc and might even help it
Chaang-Noi: if the SEC is scared of BTC im bullish in BTC :)
copumpkin: "I'm against all forms of regulation and government control, except, OH SHIT, PEOPLE ARE BUYING IMMORAL THINGS WITH BITCOIN. WE MUST BANISH IT FROM THE EARTH AS GOD EXPECTS"
copumpkin: or, from the other side, "regulation is good, and we need to protect dumbasses from themselves. We must regulate bitcoin"
copumpkin: that's not to say I think one side is as good as the other, mind you
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23500 @ 0.00031183 = 7.328 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 885 @ 0.0032 = 2.832 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P130T] 719 @ 0.20596839 = 148.0913 BTC [+]
iz: copumpkin: do you think ppl should be able to run ponzi schemes and scam dumbasses out of hundreds of thousands of bitcoins?
iz: or do you think there should be regulation that protects dumbasses from themselves?
iz: running to the cops or the SEC to sue or get someone in trouble for scamming you out of BTC is using that regulation
MrTiggr: iz: do you think ppl should be able to run ponzi schemes and scam dumbasses out of hundreds of thousands of regular CASH? .. bitcoin is the equivalent of cash ... if you blilndly give it to the rong person ... its gone dude and its yer own fault
MrTiggr: people should treat bitcoin with the same scrutiny that they do for cash transactions
iz: no, people shouldn't be able to do that with cash, and that's why the SEC and regulatory agencies exist
iz: it's not the cash vs bitcoin
iz: it's regulated exchanges and investment companies, like with cash
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34100 @ 0.00031101 = 10.6054 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26656 @ 0.00031079 = 8.2844 BTC [-]
MrTiggr: and by "Cash" i mean coins and notes
copumpkin: MrTiggr: are you saying that "real-world" cases of fraud should not be prosecuted?
iz: vs unregulated exchanget and investment companies, like with bitcoin, where most of them are scams
copumpkin: because the defrauded party was dumb enough to hand over his money?
MrTiggr: i am SPECIFICALLY comparing bitcoin to CASH
copumpkin: this is whether someone was defrauded or not
MrTiggr: no chargeback and not really very tracable
copumpkin: do you blame the victim of fraud on the victim?
copumpkin: implementation details, you might say
MrTiggr: the next point i will make is
MrTiggr: we should provide bitcoiners with the tools to ensure that their "cash-like" transactions can be conducted with the best possible confidence
iz: it's not about transactions with scams though
MrTiggr: if my mate buys a TV from a stranger with cash and gets ripped
iz: they are making the transactions intentionally
MrTiggr: the point i am making is that there is a level of responsibility that normal transactions are held to, which bitcoiners seem to think doesnt apply
iz: what if your grandma spends all of her retirement money buying a new spaceage TV that cooks dinner for her
MrTiggr: in fact, happened to my grandpa
MrTiggr: but he was stoopid enuf to do it
iz: should it be legal for a company to carry on business defrauding grandmas?
MrTiggr: not check who he qwas dealing with etc
iz: who do you check with?
copumpkin: MrTiggr: what if a con artist lies his way into your building and takes money from your vault?
iz: if there is no regulatory agency
iz: how can you tell what is a real investment company.. and what is a scammy investment company?
copumpkin: is this purely about not using violence to obtain someone else's property?
iz: you just have to take their word for it
copumpkin: it seems you could make arguments about someone not being strong enough to resist robbers
iz: or the word on the street
copumpkin: in fact, I have seen gun advocates say that
MrTiggr: not as far as i am concerned - i equate bitcoin to cash ... im not giving my dollar bills to anyone i dont trust ... neither should a bitcoiner
copumpkin: cash boils down to whether you can prove that you gave the money to the person
iz: MrTiggr: investments don't care how you give them the money
copumpkin: that's got little to do with the actual crime
MrTiggr: in the same breath - i personally do everything i can to help bitcoiners make the best decision about their trades
MrTiggr: (i AM bitcoin-police after all)
copumpkin: whether bitcoin is equivalent to cash is completely irrelevant to the legality/morality of the issue
iz: MrTiggr: how do you know what is good and what is a scam?
copumpkin: it just determines how easy it is to prove that you gave it to them
MrTiggr: investments (like glbse .. which is what i imagine you are referring) are not the same thing
MrTiggr: but its hard with "real cash" too
iz: yeah, that's like.. we're discussing if children should be able to drink alcohol or not, and you are like "well.. i think it all depends on if it's vodka or whiskey"
MrTiggr: lets not confuse casual -otc bitcoin trading with .. ponzi or other investment
iz: it doesn't matter if it's bitcoin or cash or pokemon cards
iz: an investment scam vs a real investment opportunity are hard to tell the difference between, without there being some sort of regulatory agency
MrTiggr: so... you are defending the people who blindly "invested" bitcoin in .. lets say for arguments sake .. a glbse stok .. with out checking who was managing the funds
iz: it's not bitcoin's fault
copumpkin: nobody's claiming it is bitcoin's fault
iz: but it happened because there is no regulatory agency
MrTiggr: it happened due to lack of consumer diligence imho
iz: and the reason that doesn't happen so much in the real USD markets
iz: is because of regulation
MrTiggr: "who is nefario" << first Qn id have asked myself if investing in any glbse stock
copumpkin: MrTiggr: just like I got robbed because I hadn't learned martial arts, or wasn't carrying a gun? it happened because an asshole defrauded you.
iz: do you think it should be okay for people to dress up like police officers and go around to people's houses
iz: and the people who don't call the main police office to check on the badge numbers to make sure they are real cops
copumpkin: "you should have called up the police office to make sure they had sent someone, before letting him in"
MrTiggr: regulation i don thtink is the answer... i agree there is aproblem, but im kinda sick of bitcoiners blaming their own lack of due diligence on the "missing regulatory component" for which bitcoin was originally founded
iz: deserve the robbing they are going to get
copumpkin: I don't think bitcoin was originally founded "for" that
iz: bitcoin wasn't founded for that
MrTiggr: De-Centralized currency is one of the core tennant of bitcoin
copumpkin: the protocol doesn't require regulation, but the people using it might
iz: the problem are the bitcoin exchanges not being regulated
iz: not that bitcoin itself isn't regulated
MrTiggr: <iz> the problem are the bitcoin exchanges not being regulated << how so ?? all the major exchanges are subject to AML etc
iz: how could you regulate cash against scams involving cash (besides counterfeiting)?
iz: they are just some random dude
iz: putting a website up on a VPS somewhere that he bought w/ bitcoins
MrTiggr: ?? and they would have been raepd for not being AML compliant
iz: for trading real money
iz: only because they trade real money, and use the regulation that real money provides
iz: for bitcoin investment companies that DON'T deal in cash and only in bitcoins
iz: they don't have any regulations they need to follow at all
MrTiggr: all the more reason for due diligence
iz: you're saying "no regulation to bitcoin" while touting that bitcoin exchanges are AML compliant..
MrTiggr: either you centralize and regulate or you dont
iz: and the only reasons bitcoin exchanges are AML compliant is BECAUSE of the regulation of USD
MrTiggr: exchanges are not bitcoin ... they are a way out/in to bitcoin
iz: you don't need to centralize the mint to have regulation of exchanges
MrTiggr: if you are talking about regulation of exchanges, i have no problem with that
iz: all you need is a 3rd party regulatory agency that has a vested intrest in maintaining everyone's trust and not letting ppl break rules just because they got paid off
iz: also regulating bitcoin investment companies
MrTiggr: ooh thats "all you need" .. so who we gonna trust on that
MrTiggr: sarcasm included - thats a real question
iz: like.. make sure they keep the offline wallet key used to store everyone's bitcoins secret and don't check it into git
MrTiggr: totally for that - thats not really regulation ... not in the true sense though ... its some form of compliance to a satandard
iz: MrTiggr: ever use SSL? the CAs are exactly like that
iz: just companies that have a vested intrest in being secure authorities
MrTiggr: ok so we setup Bitcoin-Verisign then ?
iz: well, something like that
iz: but i don't know if it would be profitable
MrTiggr: i wudnt classify that as typical regulation though
iz: yeah, i figured someone would try to do something like that
iz: okay breakfast time for me.. peace all
MrTiggr: peace bro! ... don't hate my devil's-advocate hat oo much ... im kinda cranky today :P
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47600 @ 0.00031003 = 14.7574 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28400 @ 0.00030983 = 8.7992 BTC [-]
Ukto: did nefario actually "give out" assets/btc yet?
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P140T] 266 @ 0.25780139 = 68.5752 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P140T] 183 @ 0.27932903 = 51.1172 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13600 @ 0.00030995 = 4.2153 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: There's no drama like Bitcoin drama. The "will pirate make contact" storyline returns tomorrow and the new season of "will BFL deliver" starts in a couple of weeks. It's like reality TV without the ads. Which well-known Bitcoin business will suddenly fail next? Who should be voted off the libertarian island?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9302 @ 0.00031179 = 2.9003 BTC [+]
sgornick: mircea_popescu: Lost chase and wells fargo (well, no deposits, no ach withdraw .. .. through end of Oct, though if he doesn't know why they froze it how does he know end of Oct. it will be re-opened, with access to funds?)
mircea_popescu: well that's ok, he makes a third coming, this time with a frozen BTC and a frozen USD balance.
sgornick: "WellsFargo cash deposits are currently suspended. We apologize for any inconvenience and are looking for a resolution."
sgornick: "business reasons" with no explanation.
mircea_popescu: you know... it's almost as if the banks are by now workingtogether to fuck over btc exchanges
sgornick: Yup, and they have an excuse that sounds legit. "Just because, um ... we can't tell you why."
mircea_popescu: well frankly, they're entirely within their right to tell you to take a hike.
mircea_popescu: it's a bank after all, it's not obliged to handle your money.
sgornick: Until I can legally open a bank then that is bullshit.
dub: all is not well in magical bunny land
mircea_popescu: i'm serious tho, come to romania and open a bank. you need something like 50ish mn in capital iirc.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12798 @ 0.0003126 = 4.0007 BTC [+]
pigeons: i'd rather open a mcdonalds
rdponticelli: How long would take mpex to open his own bank?
rdponticelli: pigeons: for that you need garbage amounting in the millions
sgornick: Right, wasn't calling bullshit on that you need money to open a bank. Was trying to say how that moeny requirement is bullshit.
mircea_popescu: sgornick why would it be bullshit tho ? i mean... allow nefario to open an irl bank ?
mircea_popescu: money as a barrier to entry is great, because in spite of all its failings, modern society works pretty well at keeping idiots and money apart.
pigeons: people wouldn't use nefario if there were legal alternatives competent people would run them
rdponticelli: mircea_popescu: damn, I won't buy anymore S.MPOE, then
mircea_popescu: pigeons right. like... you know... btc stock exchanges.
mircea_popescu: you're flat out wrong. the incompetent flock together.
mircea_popescu: rdponticelli banks suck, the margins are about as narrow as in electricity production.
pigeons: or at least they hire likeminded people to post for them on forums
mircea_popescu: and the honesty of their incompetence resonates with the inner vibration of incompetence in a large mass of others.
mircea_popescu: but incidentally, why are there mcdonald's places, pigeons ? after all, there's legal alternatives run by competent people. like, you know, actual restaurants.
pigeons: what are the legal alternatives to banks?
pigeons: there aren't. join the cartel or else use nefario
jcpham: but there can be a bitcoin cartel
sgornick: mircea_popescu: When fractional reserve is 10:1 that's when the system fails without a large amount of capital (and generally fails even with a large amount of capital)
sgornick: But here's an approach where I need only $1 to do this.
mircea_popescu: sgornick well that's two arguments you're proposing, and they're unrelated. anyway, there's no practical way to limit credit.
mircea_popescu: if i promise my gf to take her to the film, it's none of your business.
BTC-Mining: It seems the AML docs requirement was removed
mircea_popescu: and when i say glbse is damaging, this is EXACTLY what i mean. will in the future people go "o, i won't follow stated policy cause what if these people reverse it like glbse used to do" ? yes, they will.
mircea_popescu: the false notion that glbse was a btc-financials related website is fucking us over ;/
FabianB: jurov: in the orderform of coinbr it would be nice if the item selectbox would have a consistent ordering
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.0003112 = 9.336 BTC [-]
BTC-Mining: [16:29] <mircea_popescu> the false notion that glbse was a btc-financials related website is fucking us over
BTC-Mining: Well it could have been, but Nefario screwed it up. He should have accepted brokering unregistered securities might not be legal and stayed in China. Lower costs of living to top it.
BTC-Mining: Instead of backing up for unknown reasons (theft, fears, whatever)
mircea_popescu: back when he was still in China I honestly thought that's where he's going and mostly why I laid off him
BTC-Mining: You need some dedication when offering bitcoin services.
BTC-Mining: In any case, I'm off. Don't know why I've been paying 26$/month for TV I'm not using when I watch my shows online.