B0g4r7_: Worst descriptive url truncation ever.
drekk: mircea_popescu, nope. sent a PM in the forum to Kumala once regarding VCE. never got an answer
drekk: yea. i like both services pretty much, but again the old prob: lack of communication (skills)
drekk: seems glbse downtime gave them a boost tho :)
Eisenhower34: glbse? is that the Stock Market who ran with all those ... I think its called bitcoins
drekk: those were the days...
Eisenhower34: "Secret ways to turn her on" ... who wouldnt click that email :)
Eisenhower34: too many dicks and not enough pussys in that picture...
Diablo-D3: mircea_popescu: man, why do you even have that imgboard
Diablo-D3: theres not even anything shocking on it
mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3 i made a buncha shit romanians didn't have cause they were retarded
BTC-Mining: [17:14] <Eisenhower34> glbse? is that the Stock Market who ran with all those ... I think its called bitcoins
BTC-Mining: So the exchange has been offline for one day and already it's 100% sure the bitcoins are gone?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27558 @ 0.00037034 = 10.2058 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9242 @ 0.00037012 = 3.4206 BTC [-]
BTC-Mining: Well unfortunately, even if there was a theft, there's only a fractions of the funds available on GLBSE.
BTC-Mining: It depends. Unfortunately for the would be theft.
mircea_popescu: the large problem here is this : with the exception of *maybe* two items the btcv value of glbse paper is now 0.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining and nobody's putting it back in to buy glbse insecurities.
BTC-Mining: So GLBSE's website is down for less than 24 hour and already it's the worst theft/scam/apocalypse in Bitcoin history, everything is worth 0, everything spontaneously combusts to never return?
drekk: pretty awesome, right :)
Ignatius-otc: BTC-Mining, that was yesterday...today, pitchforks
mircea_popescu: it's not one isolated event, it's the final explosion of a series of explosions
dub: I win at trolling on the road
dub: some poor bastard just got my ticket
BTC-Mining: ... are everyone self-proclaimed prophets now that they all hold absolute truth and knows what will happen?
BTC-Mining: We don't have the slightest idea why GLBSE is down currently.
gribble: nefario was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 week, 4 days, 1 hour, 34 minutes, and 41 seconds ago: <nefario> Those assets are not listed or traded anymore
BTC-Mining: Ok, I guess when one of my favorite non-bitcoin website is down, it's because all the USD is gone.
BTC-Mining: "Learn why intelligent people do amazingly stupid things when caught up in speculative edevorse."
gribble: Best bid: 12.821, Best ask: 12.89937, Bid-ask spread: 0.07837, Last trade: 12.89939, 24 hour volume: 30528, 24 hour low: 12.51, 24 hour high: 12.97
BTC-Mining: Yes, speculation... but according to each bitcoin prophet (50% of bitcointalk's population), their speculation is always fact.
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P150T] 800 @ 0.33112668 = 264.9013 BTC [+]
Eisenhower34: so you know from some secret source that GLBSE BTC are really gone? as you say its a fact now
dub: nefario announced in the secret channel
mircea_popescu: i dunno. i see the bias towards "it's the end" very reasonable given that there was no notice whatosever.
BTC-Mining: I have no idea if any coins were stolen, if GLBSE is coming back up or if it's just really bad judgement from Nefario who just omitted giving any information.
dub: he took the money, using it for a sex change
BTC-Mining: I'll at least wait to see the situation concretize itself before claiming anything as a fact.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining if one day you go to this corner shop in your neighbourhood and it's ust closed. no notice no anything
Eisenhower34: but you said yourself that its a fact now that GLBSE BTCs are gone
dub: he is leaving his wife and marrying genjix
BTC-Mining: I'll assume the shop owner might be sick, or suddenly died, as there's no notice he's closing shop.
Eisenhower34: someone may say that to the others who only read the board
BTC-Mining: And wait to see if a relative picks it up, if the owner comes back, or if anything else happen.
BTC-Mining: I mean, a place being closed unexpectedly is cause for wonder about what might have happened.
mircea_popescu: countdown to someone posting in forum that nefario is dead (100% fact) in 5, 4, 3...
Eisenhower34: we dont have do wonder anymore ... you said yourself Nefario is dead and the coins have been stolen...
BTC-Mining: Yeah, it's just one of many speculative idea brought forth, not a fact. That's the problem with the forum. Speculations/hearsay are distorted/presented as facts.
Eisenhower34: did you say soemthing you were not allowed to say?
dub: I like the panic in theymos thread
dub: THERE ARE BACKUPS RIGHT???11
BTC-Mining: No, no, actually, the fact is, everyone in Bitcoins are actual insane and placed in an institution. Bitcoins are all but a figment of their imagination that started with one of the patient shouting the word "Bitcoin". It's true.
dub: nefario is intersango and they dont know about backups
Eisenhower34: nefario is intersango .... and nefario is dead ... and the btc are ... we are screwed
dub: its cool, sounds like rapeghost has raped a backup of his own
Eisenhower34: ok ... starting with the words "According to BTC-Minings secret source ... "
drekk: 50 shades of nefario
mircea_popescu: You can still see it like that, since there is a lack of information... but what I see is exactly what I had predicted: GLBSE was a highly illegal business and Nefario was just a crook working in conspiracy with other crooks... and one of them was theymos - the admin of this forum, who owned 23% of GLBSE - had anyone of you known about it?
dub: the whole community has been taken by a cabal of limey grifters
rg: theymos has been milking btc from Btalk
rg: dont you remember when i made that stink
rg: about him claiming to be non profit
BTC-Mining: The remaining of the shares he sell are from other holders also exiting.
rg: yte he couldnt prove any of the money actually went to the forum
dub: rg: clearly it doesnt
BTC-Mining: Probably because they don't want to take part in a regulated GLBSE
rg: forum with 0 costs, accepting donations
rg: for 'operating costs'
BTC-Mining: theymos personally owns about ~7% of the shares.
dub: it cant handle 500 users
rg: its very wel known mtcox pays for bitcointalk's hosting
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C110T] 571 @ 0.26373924 = 150.5951 BTC [-]
rg: so they dont pay that
dub: if you were paynig for that you are retarded
rg: all the admins are volunteers
rg: he's easily taken in 10k btc from the forum
rg: for this forum software that's 'coming out in the future'
BTC-Mining: Well technically, the whole amount is still growing with donations and offered as a bounty.
rg: (as if its not obvious enough)
rg: you cant say you're a non prfit
rg: when you're not a fucking non
dub: also, they sell advertising
rg: EXPENSIVE advertising
dub: and don't have ANY costs
rg: we used to advertise on btalk
rg: after paying him for like 2 weeks
rg: i was like .. no amount o clients is worht this
dub: DOIN IT FOR THE COMMUNITY BRAH
rg: might as well pay google
rg: yeah the community has seen 0.00 btc from theymos
dub: do we have an estimate of how much btc is tied up in glbse?
rg: he just lies and claims they are
rg: on his donation begging page he says hes a non profit
BTC-Mining: dub: I think the other holders of GLBSE know more about that.
rg: mircea_popescu: like a year ago
rg: when i made this stink
rg: which is worth 50% more now
mircea_popescu: dude, if i ran the forum i'd expect to be paid. it's only natural.
rg: and im fine with that
rg: but dont claim to be a fucking non profit
rg: it is AGAINST THE LAW
rg: to say you're a non profit
dub: at this point, I would be shitting brixx if I had issued an asset
rg: nefario is going to sort everyhting out
rg: if he actually was in trouble for glbse
rg: all he' dhave to do is transfer it to someone else
jcpham: black-bagged off to egypt?
dub: yeah because that would magically get him out of jail
rg: hes obviously not in jail
BTC-Mining: [17:52] <dub> at this point, I would be shitting brixx if I had issued an asset
rg: i have full confidence in nefario
BTC-Mining: Issuers have the money OUTSIDE glbse. They don't keep it on GLBSE, they need to use it.
jcpham: i no longer have full confidence in anyone
dub: BTC-Mining: working out great for goat
jcpham: do we want to go there
rg: oh i dont need full confidence
rg: like you wouldnt be afraid to leave me alone with your lil sister
dub: admit it, he's dead and you've already raped his ghost
jcpham: i wouldn't leave you alone with any kids
BTC-Mining: Well money is mostly safe outside GLBSE at least.
jcpham: i would donate blood or semen for you, though
femtotube: rg: you probably can not even get it up any more... LOL!
dub: BTC-Mining: it sounds like you're saying, 'hey, I already have their money, lol'
BTC-Mining: I'm saying it can't be stolen, even if it ends up being a hack.
femtotube: I guess all the bond issuers are ecstatic right now. No exchange, no obligations
femtotube: same for those shares in imaginary Co's
BTC-Mining: Also there's supposed to be backup plans in place. Hopefully if Nefario is gone, which is purely speculative, the other owners of GLBSE can at least give us the info needed to pay out people.
dub: BTC-Mining: you might have a little problem with a lot of angry bond holders?
femtotube: do not start with this contract BS. Do you think they really give a shit?
dub: I agree with BTC-Mining anyway. Hopefully Nefario is gone.
femtotube: BTC-Mining: a plan? Those damn shareholders have no idea wtf is going on. There is no plan
mircea_popescu: dub well yes, he does have a problem. actually all things considered i think he;'s pretty calm.
BTC-Mining: They don't know what's going on, which does not mean they don't receive a daily backup or anything.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining did you have a contingency plan for glbse going down ?
dub: mircea_popescu: yeah, as Iwas saying, issuers should be shitting brix
BTC-Mining: No. What about MPEx? What do you have in place supposing you die tomorrow?
mircea_popescu: but more's the point : now you know how glbse shareholders feel
BTC-Mining: But I've seen bigger things than GLBSE go down without notice without people going crazy over it within 24 hours.
mircea_popescu: so many things went to shit past 3 months people are hysterical
BTC-Mining: The whole Bitcointalk community seems to be standing on the edge 24/7 since forever.
BTC-Mining: Eh, yeah... Pirate is one of the worst thing to have happened to Bitcoins.
BTC-Mining: Not to count the waves of bad amateur "ponzi" offers that appeared from new members right after the news headlines about Pirate.
mircea_popescu: fact of the matter is, and we have to face this, the infrastructure was not ready.
mircea_popescu: people thought (wrongly) glbse is good enough, and ppl thought (wrongly) nefario is good enough.
mircea_popescu: they were good enough, for sums up to 100 btc and sunday casual mmorpg play.
mircea_popescu: once things expanded a little the structural weakness collapsed.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining no. because of 2 months of continuous bullshit by now.
mircea_popescu: like allowing canadian ticket buying "mining operations".
BTC-Mining: At least it doesn't seem like Nefario wanted to approve some issuers as trustable and others as not trustable. He didn't want that responsibility I think.
BTC-Mining: Eh, the problem is that since it's centralized, he had the ability to intervene and people put pressure on him left and right and things started to change.
BTC-Mining: Ideally we'd just have a peer to peer stock market that anyone can issue on.
mircea_popescu: this is the definition of safety in nucet : plan well, stick to plan.
BTC-Mining: It would have been easier if he lived in China and not in the UK however.
BTC-Mining: Eh, me neither, but apparently, not as much as a lack of rule than those rules not being enforced.
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 217 @ 0.00027772 = 0.0603 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 2316 @ 0.00027772 = 0.6432 BTC [-]
BTC-Mining: Well let's at least wait until Saturday and see if Nefario ran into legal trouble or the SEC wants to clawback ponzi earnings at the only place they can intervene (centralized system like GLBSE).
BTC-Mining: Although those scenarios seems somewhat unlikely
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining if it helps you anything, i can offer you 100 btc's hedge on the later point.
BTC-Mining: Not sure why I'd need a hedge on 2nd point
BTC-Mining: I never really invested in Pirate. Assuming that's what happens, I'd get funds frozen until accounting is figured out.
BTC-Mining: Also, knowing how good Nefario is with PR, I wouldn't be surprised if he reappered soon after the silent week all surprised about seeing everyone in a panic and announcing he just completed rolling out GLBSE v3. He's so deep in his work sometimes he seems oblivious at what people would expect to be said upfront.
BTC-Mining: That would probably be a mindblowing hit to his PR...
BTC-Mining: If it was something completly benign and he simply felt too busy to announce it in details
mircea_popescu: people'd prolly go on about how this is all a last minute cover-up
mircea_popescu: Oct 01 01:47:42 <mircea_popescu> Obsi ty, but it doesn't seem like anyone has a choice. glbse is going away. now's everyone's change to learn gpg.
mircea_popescu: Oct 01 01:47:43 <Bugpowder> I don't think GLBSE is going to survive
BTC-Mining: This is the current effect on bitcointalk's community of recent events.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4017 @ 0.00037188 = 1.4938 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25702 @ 0.00037224 = 9.5673 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27481 @ 0.00037338 = 10.2609 BTC [+]
BTC-Mining: Because people are allergic to anything happening out of the daily routine by now.
gribble: Best bid: 12.82, Best ask: 12.84796, Bid-ask spread: 0.02796, Last trade: 12.84798, 24 hour volume: 29553, 24 hour low: 12.51, 24 hour high: 12.97
B0g4r7: I'm surprised nothing's up on betsofbetco.in about the glbse situation.
B0g4r7: Ppl should be betting like mad over this.
BTC-Mining: Because GLBSE is down so no bitcoins to vote?
B0g4r7: Maybe the site's just too slow. The last time I submitted a statement it took days to get approved and posted.
rdponticelli: If that's the case, most chances are that when you have a statement posted, it's already solved
B0g4r7: You sure are a fan of these Roman numeral-based lists, aren't you?
rdponticelli: This is bitcoinland, everything is thunderspeed
B0g4r7: Everything but the BoB staff.
B0g4r7: I would bet that glbse will not be back online and executing trades by the end of Oct.
rdponticelli: In fact, my bid for glbse shares is lowering to 1 satoshi
B0g4r7: A Satoshi is the smallest possible denomination of BTC?
B0g4r7: (I'm asking, I don't know)
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 6200 @ 0.00027772 = 1.7219 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.C120T] 850 @ 0.21008905 = 178.5757 BTC [-]
BTC-Mining: Who buys GIGA.ETF when GLBSE is down and GIGA.ETF won't upgrade to TERAMINING?
mircea_popescu: maybe they're banking on the theory that giga will have to be listed somewhere
BTC-Mining: aye... but GIGA can't jsut resell the hardware once again on MPEx... or list for that matter.
BTC-Mining: The proof GIGA.ETF had rights to any proceeds is now offline.
BTC-Mining: Even if he did such a thing as reissuing, GIGA.ETF would hold no value
BTC-Mining: no proof would be left GIGA.ETF held anything?
BTC-Mining: So only the new issue would hold any value.
mircea_popescu: i think even if glbse never comes back we might be able to reconstruct some chain of ownership
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 13500 @ 0.00027771 = 3.7491 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 15000 @ 0.00027771 = 4.1657 BTC [-]
BTC-Mining: Mircea said it would not upgrade to TERAMINING in any case.
BTC-Mining: Yes. I haven't really asked about that tho.
mircea_popescu: i said there's not going to be any shareholders-pay upgrades
pigeons: BTC-Mining: i believe giga will pay mircea_popescu to pay coupons on GIGA.ETF
pigeons: i think you'll have a much harder time getting paid for your glbse GIGAs, although I believe he will honor those too
mircea_popescu: im sure he'd honor anything once there's a list of shareholders and we can work out ownership
mircea_popescu: but in the absolute-worst-case scenario, glbse is never heard from again, this will be a mess.
mircea_popescu: i think actually it should be "illegal" to have an exchange w/o gpg from now on.
pigeons: i think one of glbse's partners has decided to make things difficult for him and the earliest maybe coins will begin to move is october 12th
mircea_popescu: i mean... it's just asking for trouble. how do you delist ? how do you cover the endgame ? it's irresponsible.
pigeons: i think in the heat of the moment, nefario made a move to secure the usd backing of the coins when they were not returned and has made things much more difficult
pigeons: if you are looking to file suit against glbse you will not be eligble for repayment
pigeons: threats are taken serious by my internet lawyer. a few of you will find out just how serious i mean.
BTC-Mining: Wait mircea, how much is MPEx valued at?
assbot: [MPEX:S.MPOE] 1day: 0.00035988 / 0.00036937 / 0.00037408 (1787481 shares, 660.25 BTC), 30day: 0.00034 / 0.00038742 / 0.00042 (64897398 shares, 25,142.71 BTC)
pigeons: the page was vandalized though there is a scary freak at the top
pigeons: oh i thought that could help him value mpex
mircea_popescu: actually it was 4800 btc but only 500mn shares are issued
mircea_popescu: (because of the way mpoe works with nonvoting stock you can never sell > 50% of any comp)
markac: SyntaxError: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
mircea_popescu: pigeons i was having fun with watching it in romanian leu right ? cause share price went up in btc, btc went up in usd, usd went up in ron
B0g4r7: Tell us how MPOE is different from GLBSE such that it is unlikely to suffer the same kind of problems.
BTC-Mining: Yeah, but suppose you have a heart attack RIGHT NOW and can't actually do those actions, who will do them. Who else has access to MPEx?
B0g4r7: Specifically with regard to jurisdiction and regulatory intervention, are you located in a place that is less jackbooted than the UK?
BTC-Mining: or anything which would unexpectedly render you unable to perform said actions.
pigeons: oh that's cute, you call it your cto
pigeons: ok as long as -pr has no access to the site
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 200 @ 0.00027771 = 0.0555 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 481 @ 0.0002777 = 0.1336 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 3400 @ 0.00027769 = 0.9441 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 8800 @ 0.00027768 = 2.4436 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 10300 @ 0.00027766 = 2.8599 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 6200 @ 0.00027761 = 1.7212 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 10600 @ 0.00027715 = 2.9378 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 13300 @ 0.00027144 = 3.6102 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 10900 @ 0.0002561 = 2.7915 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 464 @ 0.00023469 = 0.1089 BTC [-]
B0g4r7: GLBSE bet submitted. Now let's see how long it takes BoB to approve and post it.
B0g4r7: "For this statement to be false, on November 1 2012 at 12:00 AM UTC, the gblse.com website must be online and accessible to internet users, users must be able to log in, and users must be able to execute both buy and sell trades on the listed securities. At least 5 securities must be listed."
smickles: jeez, 30 minutes per confirm :|
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00037338 = 4.9286 BTC [+]
smickles: midnightmagic: will you place a bet on that ?
thoa_afk: there are some weird bets at BoB -.-
midnightmagic: smickles: No, there are too many possible technicalities.
midnightmagic: For example, it completely leaves out all the pre-existing assets that users currently "own".
midnightmagic: So what happens if glbse just arbitrarily steals everyone's assets? I mean who wins the bet then?
BTC-Mining: Seems like the bet is already won? I don't know.
BTC-Mining: Well at least theymos claim Nefario has completly cut relations with other GLBSE owners
rlynao: you will claim your assets and run on mpex?
B0g4r7: Well that bet got moot fast. Oh well.
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: your competition dying a horrible death
knotwork: Maybe instead of everyone sharing one fate it would be better to put each asset-issuer on a separate server just for their assets and no one else's?
copumpkin: mircea_popescu: as an MPOE shareholder, I demand that you bring back the unicorn
BTC-Mining: Mircea is not interested in what's being issued on GLBSE, except maybe a few things...
copumpkin: BTC-Mining: doesn't matter, less competition is better for him
mircea_popescu: i'd like to have SOME competition. what i don't like is people thinking glbse was competition
teek: what in the actual fuck
pigeons: yeah i liked the unicorn too
mircea_popescu: at this point im guessing i will take deadterra off my ignore
mircea_popescu: once he submits a gpg signed apology for his idiocy yest
teek: copumpkin: at how it is actually going down.. yeah i guess i am
copumpkin: I've maintained that nefario is a bit of a clueless hack for months now
copumpkin: but I'm a nice guy so I don't usually put it in those terms
pigeons: i thought he was a bit of a clueless hack, but this is harmful
B0g4r7: This what I call Epic Fail.
BTC-Mining: Hey, plenty of madness over here in the forum
BTC-Mining: At this rate, no single bitcoiner will be left trusting anything.
BTC-Mining: Withdrawals will require giving your identity
B0g4r7: I do believe that's a big fat Scammer tag I see headed Nefario's way.
pigeons: he's shutting down, what does he need your ids for
pigeons: there is one reason. not like it wasn't likely this would happen.
B0g4r7: Because he's flipped and is working for those who pwned him, perhaps.
BTC-Mining: FSA might have put it's nose in the case...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3519 @ 0.00037338 = 1.3139 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39881 @ 0.00037384 = 14.9091 BTC [+]
smickles: so, what's this community think of 'snitches', as nef is likely one
B0g4r7: I think he deserves the cold shoulder or worse.
smickles: BTC-Mining: well, a few of us have his cell, if it's still active
mircea_popescu: Nefario: You are obviously unqualified to be anywhere near a project of the complexity of an exchange, even for play money (which I suspect BTC are, for most of you here, at least judging on behavior records).
pigeons: matthewh3 talked to him on the cell earlier today
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining don't shittalk. mpex was fine all along, and is fine to this day.
pigeons: no one likes a gloater mircea_popescu
BTC-Mining: When did I ever say MPEx was not fine?
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining At this rate, no single bitcoiner will be left trusting anything. <<
BTC-Mining: oh... barring some exceptions. I mean, bitcoiners tend to trust MtGox too.
dub: I turst him to turn his kids into serial killers
pigeons: i even believed nefario was a doctor
Azelphur: smickles: what's the point of him snitching exactly though?
Azelphur: I mean, nefario is UK based right?
smickles: Azelphur: avoid jail, lower fine
Azelphur: yea, I mean I know that from his side
Azelphur: but what are they even going to do to the investors?
Azelphur: unless my nicklist is bugged xD
smickles: 00:41 -!- NO_OOh [~james@cpc24-seve20-2-0-cust342.13-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #bitcoin-assets
pigeons: not the ip he has been using
dub: he's been joining with retarded nicks lately
dub: something about farting yesterday
NO_OOh: ahaha I AM NEFARIOS!!!!
B0g4r7: If you're not Nef, why do you look like him?
pigeons: its no fun berating a wall
Azelphur: smickles: I imagine if you get the who owns what shares info off them, we don't need GLBSE funds anyway
pigeons: i say it is him, let's get him!
B0g4r7: Nefario, do the right thing and return our asets without dragging us into your mess.
dub: rg: how you like him now
smickles: Azelphur: there were only a few hundred satoshi on glbse anyway
Azelphur: nothing I can't afford to loose
dub: someon quote rg sucking his dick an hour ago
B0g4r7: I have (well I guess had not) a non-trivial amount of BTC there.
Azelphur: the thing I'm curious about, say we give the nefario our info and he is snitching
Azelphur: what are they going to arrest us for?
dub: [17:53] <rg> i have full confidence in nefario
dub: [17:52] <rg> nefario is going to sort everyhting out
smickles: rg: how about that backup of the db
BTC-Mining: Unless Nefario encountered legal issues
smickles: rg: give me a list of s²cm's shareholders and ssociated amounts
BTC-Mining: You need the latest one, not a backup. Also, who will give a code to each holder so they can claim the assets?
smickles: BTC-Mining: i think the 'backup' rg has is the hd of the server
mircea_popescu: and incidentally, the last backup available is the registry of record
B0g4r7: My deposit address could be my code.
B0g4r7: Since I already have that.
BTC-Mining: erhm... people sometimes deposit from address they don't control
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 16400 @ 0.00021321 = 3.4966 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 18800 @ 0.00021085 = 3.964 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 10000 @ 0.00018002 = 1.8002 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 4000 @ 0.00018001 = 0.72 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 151188 @ 0.00018 = 27.2138 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 16075 @ 0.00002002 = 0.3218 BTC [-]
B0g4r7: The address I sent my BTC to to deposit it into glbse.
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 186388 @ 0.00002002 = 3.7315 BTC [-]
dub: <nefario> I'm creating the future of bitcoin!
smickles: mircea_popescu: do you think this will affect the btcusd exchange rate?
B0g4r7: dub: <nefario> I'm creating the future of bitcoin! <-- Sad if true
gribble: You have not yet rated user nefario
Azelphur: I wonder if nefario is planning on posting an update today
rdponticelli: Glad nobody took my bid of 1 satoshi for glbse shares
BTC-Mining: according to theymos, he kind of cut the bridges
smickles: ;;rate nefario -1 seems to have broken contracts and screwed over many people for his own ass
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be identified via GPG to use the rating system.
smickles: ;;rate nefario -1 seems to have broken contracts and screwed over many people for his own ass
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user nefario has been recorded.
Azelphur: if it comes to it, I have a real name along with bank account # and sort code for nefario.
Azelphur: I'm sure we could dox him with that :P
Azelphur: lets hope that it doesn't and he resolves this by not scamming everybody though
pigeons: he won't give back your stuff without giving your id to bad guys
Azelphur: well, by that I mean I get my money back :p
Azelphur: most of my information is actually publicly available anyway lol
B0g4r7: He scammed me, unless he changes his position.
Azelphur: so it depends on what info he actually wants
pigeons: oh which unregistered securities you bought and for how much is public?
Azelphur: I mean the other thing to note is that this is posted by theymos, theymos isn't nefario
pigeons: that is true. i would like to hear nefario's side, but i haven't
Azelphur: pigeons: yep, I've pretty much said I made a transaction every time I did in here, rofl
B0g4r7: Yes, I'm gonna wait for word straight from the horse's mouth, as it were.
Azelphur: and my real info is findable super easy given my nickname
Azelphur: everybody knows I own a boatload of S2CM, et
B0g4r7: I don't care how public or not my info is. Imposing this kind of requirement without full disclosure prior to taking my money is unacceptable.
BTC-Mining: Aye, but who knows if Nefario even has a choice?
B0g4r7: Why would he not have a choice?
pigeons: he knew this was a likely outcome when he started the exchange
BTC-Mining: The way theymos talks about it, it seems Nefario is under legal trouble.
pigeons: if he wasn't prepared to not fuck people he shouldn't have gone this far
B0g4r7: I don't care what his situation is. What he is imposing on me is wrong.
BTC-Mining: Well for one, showing himself for the world to see as the manager of GLBSE during the bitcoin conference...
B0g4r7: I myself was in a similar situation once, where I was facing criminal legal action, with the prosecutor talking about multiple years in prison, and that I could save my ass by ratting ppl out.
B0g4r7: Did I rat anyone out? No, I did not.
mircea_popescu: B0g4r7 when people aren't just pixels on the screen things work differently it seems
mircea_popescu: He is also illegally using user deposits to pay for his lawyer.
smickles: so that, if true, makes him a thief
mircea_popescu: right. and theymos has the perfect reason to lie : <insert here>
fridge: very quick to make tenuous and unsubstantiated claims
Azelphur: B0g4r7 but as I keep saying, I don't think there is any 'ratting out' going on here, we havn't committed any crimes
B0g4r7: Then you tell me wtf this "identity" business is all about.
Azelphur: he may have violated some financial regs, but this isn't exactly a big drug bust
pigeons: there is ratting out going on and you have committed what they consider "crimes"
fridge: bitcoin isn't a currency, it's a digital asset -- like a dress in second life
rlynao: send me your digital clothings pls
pigeons: and ratting you out over something minor is no less shitty than ratting you out over something major
Azelphur: I think it's likely that nefario is simply being forced to follow financial regulations
Azelphur: which means, he needs that information in order to do so
Azelphur: yea, he needs that information in order to legally shut down
Azelphur: pigeons: I keep asking this, 4th time now, and nobody has replied
Azelphur: say he does rat us out, what's going to happen?
B0g4r7: Well, fuck you Nefario. I hope you're happy with the monies you stole from me.
pigeons: what about to guys like giga?
mircea_popescu: <B0g4r7> Then you tell me wtf this "identity" business is all about. << nefario noticed it "worked" for pirate
B0g4r7: I don't know the whole pirate story. What do you mean it worked for pirate?
mircea_popescu: B0g4r7 he claimed that shit, bought him a few extra weeks of confusion
Azelphur: I think from now on if we want to do securities we should make it decentralised xD
Azelphur: perhaps even a blockchain fork for it
B0g4r7: DECENTRALIZE ALL THE TARGETS
boonies4u: i said news from him, not about him
Azelphur: He's in UK right? it is like 2am here
Azelphur: and he is scheduled for news today
Azelphur: so maybe he'll have some later in the day
pigeons: yeah, that's it, he's just sleeping
BTC-Mining: Ah, time for crazy scenario speculation then just like pirate: One of his chinese wife's relative (or his wife) got sick and he's running with the money in China to have said person treated.
mircea_popescu: "I wish I would have sold for 0.06 when I had the chance."
gribble: Best bid: 12.694, Best ask: 12.8, Bid-ask spread: 0.10600, Last trade: 12.695, 24 hour volume: 31069, 24 hour low: 12.51, 24 hour high: 12.96399
BTC-Mining: He was in China for some time, claimed to be visiting his wife's relatives
boonies4u: i think MNW when his bet was going on
pigeons: fuck, the chinese relic hunter is holding his wife captive, and needs our info for identify theft
smickles: post-hoc ergo propter-hoc (sp?) makes for some good crazy stories
B0g4r7: Maybe I can sell my glbse claim to someone who can stomach the withdrawl requirements.
mircea_popescu: B0g4r7 maybe for btc helf you folks could have a syndicate
mircea_popescu: actually, this would be the perfect way to stick it to nefario
B0g4r7: I may try and do that, but I'm gonna wait a bit first and see what happens.
mircea_popescu: make glbse go down in history for what it was : a huge selftrade platform.
smickles: everyone, sign you shit over to me, and document the tx
BTC-Mining: B0g4r7, doubt it's possible, will require an unique identity for your account.
smickles: when it's over, i'll send the stuffs back to you
smickles: I'll sign contracts for everything
NO_OOh: HEY EVERYONE LISTEN UP
NO_OOh: AND I HAVE ALL YOUR MONEY
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39300 @ 0.00037146 = 14.5984 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 900 @ 0.00037145 = 0.3343 BTC [-]
NO_OOh: AND IM NOW LIVING IT UP ON THE ISLE OF WHITE
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell theymos you're disgusting, you know that ?
B0g4r7: Does anyone have channel logs from when (if) Nefario was on irc previously, and can you check if the host matches?
B0g4r7: Not even close I guess?
dub: maybe nefarios wife got sick of hime saying LIKE all the time and left, so he needed the money to mail order another one
boonies4u: i'm surprised my loan to invest in mining ops and hardware actually was fulfilled, even after I announced that I would be delaying its activation due to glbse going down
BTC-Mining: [12:53] * nefario (~james@92.40.253.69.threembb.co.uk) has joined #bitcoin-assets
boonies4u: I don't want to wake him up *cough cough*
BTC-Mining: it's 3 am in the UK, phone probably off
boonies4u: my guess is that voicemail is full anyways
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 89300 @ 0.00004046 = 3.6131 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BVPS] 371 @ 0.0034151 = 1.267 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BVPS] 1000 @ 0.0034007 = 3.4007 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BVPS] 18 @ 0.00340069 = 0.0612 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BVPS] 450 @ 0.00339771 = 1.529 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BVPS] 521 @ 0.00338559 = 1.7639 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BVPS] 300 @ 0.00338521 = 1.0156 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 43312 @ 0.00007229 = 3.131 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 12000 @ 0.00010894 = 1.3073 BTC [+]
boonies4u: nefario sure is comiong off as pathetic
noagendamarket: needs a security innuers collective to start a new site
boonies4u: giga is a good guy, he'll work with you
Bugpowder: I wanted to make a private placement with him
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder o lol remember when you sold f.gigia.etf cause you wanted to hold on glbse ? :D
Bugpowder: who would have though t that Romania was an advantage
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder why do you think i'm here lol. for the pussy ?
boonies4u: hey gigavps how long does delivery of a bfl single take?
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 10000 @ 0.00010894 = 1.0894 BTC [+]
pigeons: it did when the unicorn was there
noagendamarket: it looks lie a cross between my little pony and geocities
mircea_popescu: i am still puzzled by the bias of idiocy in bitcoinland.
BTC-Mining: Eh, MPEx is awful eyesight/usability wise.
mircea_popescu: people regularly shittalk the actual correct solutions
boonies4u: text based glbse looks better than mpex
mircea_popescu: people regularly back the scammers in spite of piles of evidence
mircea_popescu: i mean it's practically a deathwish or something of the sort.
pigeons: its actually great on eyesight, usabilty is fine but i grant you its easier to not use pgp than to use it. but its more usable than glbse waiting 2 min between loads
noagendamarket: I hope you never regged the domain or the servers using a credit card
boonies4u: mircea_popescu: no, cloudflare is shit
mircea_popescu: i was just about to add you to my long and growing list of people i ignore.
boonies4u: because I was blaming the shitty load time on cloudflare?
boonies4u: by complaining about glbse's load time?
mircea_popescu: no. by failing to understand that bad load time is a killer in this discussion
pigeons: all you IBB holders get ready for guantanamo
boonies4u: i will let you know when 30 btc is acceptable
BTC-Mining: Ah, I guess I regret giving you ASICMINER shares to short mircea
mircea_popescu: do you not know there's kids rubbing off furiously to fantasies of them getting gitmo'd tonight ?
boonies4u: so has anyone vanished since glbse went down?
pigeons: boonies4u: usagi has been quiet and was a little upset
Azelphur: I'm just watching the GLBSE talk atm, he's sitting there talking about how he works on it full time, and there are people who are working full time on it
Azelphur: I wonder what those people who work full time running assets are going to do
boonies4u: pigeons: yeah, i doubt he's gonna vanish cause of this though
mircea_popescu: so now i can't update my nefario rating cause i don't want to lose my position as first to have negged him.
rdponticelli: Nice thing is that visionaries can see what is happening in retrospect
BTC-Mining: Nothing left so far... assuming shareholder lists go out... what to do?
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining well, i'll give you 10 BTC which is admittedly more than market value and you sign a gpg receipt renouncing any claim on that contract.
pigeons: #assets-otc therocktrading.com cryptostocks.com
BTC-Mining: You wanted to short it, you keep the benefits.
Azelphur: haha holy crap, he's talking about my loan!
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining hey, it's more of an academic exercise. i'd like to do the full circle trade in contracts
mircea_popescu: to show how it works. it's why i'm offering over market.
Azelphur: I feel quite honored for the mention at the conference though haha, awesome
boonies4u: i don't know much about ya Azelphur
mircea_popescu: ironically, wasn't nefario trying to convince conference atendees about how scammy mpex is ?
BTC-Mining: I have GIGA.ETF shares now... someone sold into the bids when GLBSE closedown was announced =/
Azelphur: what's interesting though is everyone is calling him a scammer, he repaid that loan in full, with interest
mircea_popescu: Sep 16 01:13:36 <nefario> mircea_popescu: would you like me to mention you or mpex?
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining don't worry,. when i get kyc done i'll pass info along
smickles: mircea_popescu: should I start one of those, 'all yous who told mpoe-pr to shove it when she was telling you glbse was a scam, come here and apologise" threads?
mircea_popescu: well not everyone, but the sort that don't like mpex, invest in ponzis, think business = website + domain name etc.
BTC-Mining: People were angry she invented fact/misquoted them/passed rumors as facts. Not her actual claims.
smickles: i'm wrong often and admit it often enough. luckily i'm usually wrong about trivial things
smickles: like how many km is rivendel away from the source of the river it banks on
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 100 @ 0.00037145 = 0.0371 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29100 @ 0.00037144 = 10.8089 BTC [-]
smickles: I couldn't even google that question.
smickles: I had to break out my 1st edition LOTR
noagendamarket: why would you register a fucking bitcoin site using a credit card
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 30165 @ 0.00003037 = 0.9161 BTC [-]
smickles: (yeah, that's me bragging about having a first edition fellowship of the rings ;)
pigeons: ooh that is a nice book to have
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 110635 @ 0.00003037 = 3.36 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 54900 @ 0.00004451 = 2.4436 BTC [+]
gribble: Best bid: 12.68888, Best ask: 12.68899, Bid-ask spread: 0.00011, Last trade: 12.689, 24 hour volume: 27683, 24 hour low: 12.51, 24 hour high: 12.89999
Bugpowder: I'm surprised we haven't seen a 'pirate' style selloff in coins
Bugpowder: I guess anyone that paid attention to this shit already sold their coins or lost them
Bugpowder: First 7-day mining growth contraction in months
BTC-Mining: I think everyone is now back to hoarding.
Diablo-D3: bitcoin just wasnt ready for what I was offering
Diablo-D3: and now thanks to nefario, it never will be
smickles: Diablo-D3: how would this stop a bitcoin company going public on a 'legit' exchange?
rdponticelli: Come on, if your plan was sustainable, you can keep going with it anywhere
Diablo-D3: smickles: because there arent any.
Diablo-D3: rdponticelli: because I no longer give a shit.
Diablo-D3: if someone wants to take the plan and do it themselves, they can
smickles: Diablo-D3: um, amex, nyse, nasdaq?
Diablo-D3: smickles: like I said, there arent any.
Diablo-D3: smickles: goldman sachs. your turn.
smickles: Diablo-D3: all I meant is an exchange that complies with regulations, GS is not an exchange
Diablo-D3: smickles: no, but GS makes me question the legitimacy of the entirety of wall street.
smickles: Diablo-D3: ok, there goes nyse, how about the american stock exchange, or cboe
assbot: [MPEX:S.DICE] 1day: 0.0032 / 0.00334331 / 0.00339998 (20466 shares, 68.42 BTC), 30day: 0.0032 / 0.0033745 / 0.0034 (1798868 shares, 6,070.29 BTC)
Bugpowder: Kludge : When Nefario blackmailed me & the IceHill team by saying he'd unlock our securities if we allowed a swap option, he kept writing "equity steak." I've never forgiven him for repeatedly writing "steak" -- if nothing else, he needs a scammer tag for that.
Bugpowder: If Kludge is slamming your finance knowledge.....
smickles: there's also an exchange in kansas city that I know of
Diablo-D3: Some people are born businessmen, I'm not one of them.
smickles: all legitimate 'merican exchanges off wall street
smickles: if you don't care, Diablo-D3, why make a statement like youdid?
noagendamarket: actually you can sell a bitcoin mining company through the pink sheets market legally if you have a broker
rdponticelli: We should start the great facepalm prize of bitcoin
smickles: noagendamarket: good point, i hadn't thought of that
smickles: just sell to an acredited investor
rdponticelli: It would be nice to have some hardware if yu want to sell a mining company
smickles: noagendamarket: not that i know for sure, but arn't brokers a subset of accredited investors?
mircea_popescu: <Bugpowder> If Kludge is slamming your finance knowledge..... <<< this.
rdponticelli: I'll make an exchange who would only deal with pink shits
smickles: do we have any licensed brokers in the chan?
rdponticelli: But maybe my pink shits exchange will be to alike to glbse... :s
noagendamarket: you can have porivate companies with less than 500 investors
Bugpowder: did you learn that from reading facebook stories, noagendamarket
smickles: that's why s2cm is considering that alternative
smickles: Bugpowder: it's also on the sec website, laws and regulation section
Diablo-D3: I think maybe Im glad I got out when I did
Bugpowder: I learned about it from stories about the facebook IPO
Diablo-D3: at least I managed to buy back half the shares while I could
noagendamarket: the jobs act increases the number of investors to 2500
smickles: if only GLBSE had given asset issuers the info required for regulation D exemption
smickles: noagendamarket: only for certain types of offerings tho, right?
Diablo-D3: smickles: yes, maybe if nefario wasnt a mouth breathing greedy fucktard, none of this wouldnt have happened
noagendamarket: it didnt help that nefario registered eveything using a credit card
smickles: a mouth breathing greedy fucktard can still be compliant and successful
toffoo: smickles: yes, formerly
smickles: mircea_popescu: noagendamarket is really JCD
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26251 @ 0.00037384 = 9.8137 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15049 @ 0.00037389 = 5.6267 BTC [+]
noagendamarket: no...they are good for some things but not regging an illegal stock exchange server lol
mircea_popescu: ok, so if you pay your server bills cash-in-mail and always lick the envelope counterclockwise while reciting the solomon creed you're magically protected from ill and harm ?
noagendamarket: it probabluy helps if you dont approach the FSA and tell them youre running an unregistered stock exchange
smickles: mircea_popescu: i saw a guy get ticked for taking tomatos off of a sandwich and throwing them in a trash can
Diablo-D3: because rome is illegal and is a terrorist state in violation of international law
smickles: it's a law in vegas to curb the bird population at the landfill
mircea_popescu: smickles ridiculous. so what do i do with the tomato, feed it to the cop ?
pigeons: yeah i don't think using a credit card to register the site is nefario's problem
Diablo-D3: its some place they made up to film movies
smickles: mircea_popescu: no, you're supposed to order the sandwich w/o tomatoes
Diablo-D3: seriously, a town of illegal, yet legal, gambling joints ran by the mob, I mean, legitimate businessmen, filled to the brim with illegal, yet legal, prostitutes
smickles: mircea_popescu: well, it is vegas
mircea_popescu: boonies4u in europe it's kinda accepted practice by now.
Diablo-D3: smickles: do you know what the real world is?
Diablo-D3: its a dirty filthy place where theres no blinking lights or jobs or food or any of that shit they portray
Bugpowder: The real world is Vanguard yearly dividends paying out on 9/21
smickles: so far as I know, you must assume that this world is real
BTC-Mining: Can the end of the world really be in 2012? Please? It seems it would solve everything.
Diablo-D3: if the world ended this year, I would not complain
pigeons: yep, no dick clark to ring in 2013
Diablo-D3: I think its time we just turn the place off and go home.
smickles: Diablo-D3: I've got a cousin who lives in vegas. I've been there several times, it's fairly well like any other place in 'merica
Diablo-D3: I hope its a race of female aliens that want to kidnap the men.
Diablo-D3: you dont have to tie me up! I come willingly! wait, you know what I mean
boonies4u: some shit will go down, because people are going to do stupid shit in december
pigeons: i just hope mormonism really was the right answer
noagendamarket: it will be funny if you can only escape on their ship if you give them bitcoins
boonies4u: self-fulfilled prophecy and all that
rdponticelli: I have a prophecy: a clusterfuck is coming....
boonies4u: satoshi = the calamity from the skies
rdponticelli: Why there's always coming a clusterfuck in this damn environment?
Diablo-D3: the world already ended, we're just too stupid to see it
adamsjohn: Well, I would like to thank Usagi for making me paranoid
sgornick: So GLBSE site says "We will update our users on Saturday." and theymos' message is Saturday (UTC) at Today at 12:00:57 AM.
Diablo-D3: I'd like to thank bitcoin for making me reaffirm my faith in paranoia
Diablo-D3: I used to believe that no one could be trusted because everyone is just a bunch of greedy bastards
Diablo-D3: then I found bitcoin and thought maybe I was wrong
mircea_popescu: they had a board meeting or shareholder meeting or homeless meeting or w/e they do
rdponticelli: But then you wasn't right when you thought you was wrong
BTC-Mining: Theymos announcement is after the GLBSE owners meeting
Diablo-D3: rdponticelli: its called "false hope"
BTC-Mining: He probably planned to give an explanation himself today, after said meeting...
BTC-Mining: Diablo-D3, anonymous currency... greedy bastards issues would of course be worse.
boonies4u: so, it's likely we're not going to be hearing anything new from nefario?
BTC-Mining: On the other hand, free, unregulated transactions.
boonies4u: I think everyone is trying to kill you atlas
Diablo-D3: I wanted to believe in something important once in my life and not be jaded about it and actually really think it would succeed
BTC-Mining: Ok, I'll make a guess at what Nefario's announcement will be:
Diablo-D3: its not logical to think things will be different
pigeons: "i need your ID cause, legal stuff"
Diablo-D3: but I thought maybe just this one time it would be
smickles: I killed a couple of bunnies once, they tasted good and made nice mococins
gribble: Best bid: 12.689, Best ask: 12.729, Bid-ask spread: 0.04000, Last trade: 12.689, 24 hour volume: 27746, 24 hour low: 12.51, 24 hour high: 12.89999
BTC-Mining: [22:45] <BTC-Mining> Ok, I'll make a guess at what Nefario's announcement will be: "Ok, so yeah, I'll give a code list for every asset, hmm... It was kind of boring me, hmm... also won't listen to other GLBSE owners as they technically don't officially own anything since GLBSE was not registered anywhere and hmm... yeah, they can have this old code I guess. So I'm kind of just going to
BTC-Mining: go ahead and do a regulated exchange... but now by doing all this shit I'll need a lawyer's advice so... well yeah, I fetched Bitcoins in the users' deposits. The other owners of GLBSE I just screwed can pay you back that. I don't care about GLBSE anymore."
BTC-Mining: Well Atlas, as long as we can get asset holders lists, at least not everything would be lost.
BTC-Mining: Just the value of assets would be screwed by the hardship of exchanging them.
BTC-Mining: Well look at GLBSE, asking for standard trading fees... their monthly income was measly.
____Atlas_____: If he just pretended he didn't get the message and refunded everyone
BTC-Mining: Mistake #4: Showing his face publicly as GLBSE CEO at Bitcoin Conference for the whole Internet to watch.
BTC-Mining: Lucklily all BTC-Mining funds are held by Amazingrando...
BTC-Mining: Actually, most operations being mining, funds were not on GLBSE.
mircea_popescu: i just have trouble keeping up with who's left standing.
____Atlas_____: BTC-Mining, if you get your share holder info back, you'll be set
BTC-Mining: I'll probably buy out small holders, I'll have a hard time managing shares individually.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16800 @ 0.00037354 = 6.2755 BTC [-]
smickles: mircea_popescu: "BTC doesn't care about the SEC. MPEx rules!" > "BTC doesn't care about the SEC. MPEx.us!" is better
BTC-Mining: I still liked GLBSE's platform however...
BTC-Mining: But like I said to nefario, I found him a poor decision maker.
rg: one would start to wonder if the companies listed on the exchanges are impervious to threat
rg: will they go after the exchange only
____Atlas_____: They can come after me. I wish them luck seizing my brain wallets.
rg: if they came after me
rg: id probably pay out the asset
assbot: [MPEX] [S.BVPS] 450 @ 0.0027501 = 1.2375 BTC [-]
B0g4r7: y'all keep saying "glbse is illegal", but what's that really about?
BTC-Mining: Pretty much anything publicly traded is illegal in almost every country if not registered.
B0g4r7: Illegal by US regulatory law maybe where they're obsessed with having their fingers in everything, but that's just US...
smickles: free-ist country in the world o/
B0g4r7: I don't think the participants minded or felt they were doing anything wrong.
BTC-Mining: He was in China visiting his wife's relative not too long ago.
pigeons: all other countries are run by little girls
B0g4r7: Or were wronged, except by scammers.
BTC-Mining: He should have stayed in China forever.
B0g4r7: But it's a free market, caveat emptor.
Ukto: I blame a lot of things, for a lot of things
noagendamarket: I woulda returned all btc befiore speaking to a lawyer. Just sayin.
B0g4r7: Mmm, too bad my sig's not for sale. Others have tried.
B0g4r7: I like the sound of it tho.
Ukto: smickles: finally doing pretty good
mircea_popescu: Fact. The owner of MPEX has attempted to sell NSFW photos of herself.
B0g4r7: Anything for a Satoshi.
mircea_popescu: i think more peoplethan we realise actually hear voices in btcland.
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 25267 @ 0.00003266 = 0.8252 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 21790 @ 0.0000406 = 0.8847 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 32030 @ 0.0000406 = 1.3004 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [F.GIGA.ETF] 56900 @ 0.00005676 = 3.2296 BTC [+]
sgornick: So if GLBSE is doing a similar foreced exit like what was done for goat, ... how did that work? Completed already? Where?
smickles: Ukto: good to hear, especially on such a day as today
sgornick: Of all the security breaches that have happened, wouldn't now be the right time for GLBSE's DB to be leaked so that issuers can wind down properly?
mircea_popescu: sgornick if someone would be kind enough to leak it, please sign it first.
pigeons: actually probably the best outcome
pigeons: btc doesn't care about the law, mpex high school football rules!
boonies4u: deregulating is only okay when the GOP does it
sgornick: So, let's just say BitFloor, which reported their hack to the FBI, has turned over its DB [don't know if they did, just listing the possibility] and GLBSE's DB has found its way to regulators. How little anonymity for Bitcoin is left?
bitcoinbear: I never used bitfloor, so that wouldn't hurt my anominity
pigeons: mircea_popescu: except eavesdroppers know what keyid is making orders, and then they know what orders from the feeds
pigeons: that doesn't change what i said
B0g4r7: forum's offline again. what, are they running it on Windows?
mircea_popescu: pigeons admitting someone has been eavesdropping (how ?)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00037354 = 1.158 BTC [-]
pigeons: well the eavesdropping we know is not difficult and happens. for example the country i live in is monitored and supposedly recorded
____Atlas_____: pigeons: The NSA records all communications going in and out of the US. What else is new?
B0g4r7: And plenty that never touch the US.
mircea_popescu: pigeons but still, you could at least in theory use tor
bitcoinbear: damn, just started reading the thread by Theymos about GLBSE closing. Damn.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13633 @ 0.00037354 = 5.0925 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33623 @ 0.00037144 = 12.4889 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.00037105 = 5.2318 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19454 @ 0.00037012 = 7.2003 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59300 @ 0.0003695 = 21.9114 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54916 @ 0.00036944 = 20.2882 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13400 @ 0.00036924 = 4.9478 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25892 @ 0.00036891 = 9.5518 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38300 @ 0.00036889 = 14.1285 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40300 @ 0.00036886 = 14.8651 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56099 @ 0.00036858 = 20.677 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33900 @ 0.00036843 = 12.4898 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32600 @ 0.0003684 = 12.0098 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7339 @ 0.00036823 = 2.7024 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41000 @ 0.00036822 = 15.097 BTC [-]
pigeons: well using an unlinked key id is a good idea you are right
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39100 @ 0.00036718 = 14.3567 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10059 @ 0.00036553 = 3.6769 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20669 @ 0.0003652 = 7.5483 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20969 @ 0.00036296 = 7.6109 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29263 @ 0.00035988 = 10.5312 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49200 @ 0.00035987 = 17.7056 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16202 @ 0.0003594 = 5.823 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4035 @ 0.00035729 = 1.4417 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58205 @ 0.00035724 = 20.7932 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63200 @ 0.00035722 = 22.5763 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20026 @ 0.00035686 = 7.1465 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49977 @ 0.00035685 = 17.8343 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53800 @ 0.0003568 = 19.1958 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00035658 = 4.4216 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42700 @ 0.00035655 = 15.2247 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00035655 = 1.2123 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00035645 = 14.5432 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00035623 = 7.6233 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20000 @ 0.00035575 = 7.115 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6134 @ 0.00035522 = 2.1789 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00035501 = 1.42 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38100 @ 0.00035498 = 13.5247 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00035447 = 5.6006 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45900 @ 0.00035418 = 16.2569 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58000 @ 0.00035372 = 20.5158 BTC [-]
B0g4r7: That's a chatty bot. It can't summarize?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 372805 @ 0.00035 = 130.4818 BTC [-]
pigeons: but if it ever gets linked to you, all your trade history is known to the eavesdroppers from timing correlation of trades
mircea_popescu: pigeons if you always use the same system to trade, or at any rate one he can eavesdrop
smickles: it's possible, but not likey given the cost
pigeons: anyway, glad i always register my securites
mircea_popescu: so a combo of tor + whatever public libraries you have around should pretty much make you as anon as practically useful.
mircea_popescu: pigeons in practical terms it'd prolly be cheaper for them to break into the server and get the db than to futz with correlating trades over an extended period of timne
pigeons: yeah i'd just send a girl to your house
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60714 @ 0.00035 = 21.2499 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39286 @ 0.00035 = 13.7501 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "We will do everything in our power to make the process of moving off GLBSE as smooth as possible"
BTC-Mining: Silly mircea, I though theymos made it quite clear.
B0g4r7: No talk of the dreaded "papers"
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining i guess that shows you how much trust i put in theymos.
pigeons: that's better than expected. provided people actually get the btc and asset accountings
boonies4u: "We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves."
mircea_popescu: We will begin retuning bitcoin once we have recieved all coins from the GLBSE treasurer that manages the GLBSE cash reserves.
bitcoinbear: So they say they are returning funds right away, will we be able to log in and give a bitcoin address?
BTC-Mining: apparently and apparently said info will be sent to asset managers
sgornick: Doesn't say anything about photo id.
pigeons: As of today the earliest estimated time that coins can begin moving is Friday, Oct 12th.
B0g4r7: Way to shift the blame.
sgornick: Page was cached .. had to hit Reload ..
mircea_popescu: so nefario is giving theymos a scammer tag on glbse.com
B0g4r7: Only one tag will see the light of day.
B0g4r7: My BTC still have not moved out of the glbse cold wallet.
B0g4r7: Current balance is 674.04804691 BTC
B0g4r7: yea, pirate made out way better.
gribble: Nick 'B0g4r7', with hostmask 'B0g4r7!~b0g4r7@h-98-134-26-221.ip.alltel.net', is not identified.
B0g4r7: in terms of amount thefted.
B0g4r7: How do I identify on this thing anyway. I guess it;s not the nickserv identify.
pigeons: you can just tell me, i trust you
B0g4r7: Is the rating system separate per channel?
gribble: Error: "guide" is not a valid command.
boonies4u: this is like youtube poop meets squirrel king
gribble: Error: "guide" is not a valid command.
B0g4r7: PKI huh...I'd thought this all lived within IRC.
smickles: B0g4r7: most of the commands work wherever gribble is
B0g4r7: I found I can /msg gribble.
BTC-Mining: So yeah, I bought 534 Gigamining shares for about 16 BTC apparently.
assbot: [MPEX:F.GIGA.ETF] 1day: 0.00002002 / 0.00011046 / 0.00028006 (1103574 shares, 121.90 BTC), 30day: 0.00002002 / 0.00042347 / 0.00087369 (12060030 shares, 5,107.12 BTC)
B0g4r7: Roulette's based on a six-shooter?
gribble: *BANG* Hey, who put a blank in here?!
fridge: are there other stock exchanges?
smickles: mircea_popescu: how many giga in the etf?
smickles: boonies4u: it's 'cause he's not an op right now
BTC-Mining: Seriously, I bought 534000 F.GIGA.ETF out of 1000000 for around 16 BTC
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining so if it ever comes back you've made like what, 400 btc or so
smickles: ya kako, get with the times already you dirty hippy
BTC-Mining: If issuers get a list of holders, I get a lot.
gribble: Best bid: 12.6871, Best ask: 12.7, Bid-ask spread: 0.01290, Last trade: 12.6871, 24 hour volume: 27802, 24 hour low: 12.51, 24 hour high: 12.89999
BTC-Mining: and maybe mircea will actually pay me back my ASICMINER shares =/
mircea_popescu: James McCarthy, White Rock Cottage, Hacketstown, Carlow, IE.
mircea_popescu: That's a real house in Ireland, owned by Frances Hackett, email "mccarthyfrances@gmail.com".
BTC-Mining: Yes, but it will be hard to set a price for them to pay the 1% monthly for borrowing them to short.
mircea_popescu: 1% of average price of ASICMINER during the 5 days prev
mircea_popescu: ious as reported by GLBSE, except should there be no trades during the previous
BTC-Mining: Ah, true, I forgot GLBSE was mentioned.
BTC-Mining: I only recalled 5 days average of trades.
BTC-Mining: And assumed if it traded non-publicly...
BTC-Mining: Although since it's as reported as GLBSE or pay nothing then I guess we're all set for that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65200 @ 0.00036639 = 23.8886 BTC [+]
BTC-Mining: That clause however does not require the asset to be traded on GLBSE.
BTC-Mining: So if shares are still trading, I'd expect to get them back. Although it might be hard to find a seller without GLBSE.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3435 @ 0.00036375 = 1.2495 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32168 @ 0.00036903 = 11.871 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52000 @ 0.0003696 = 19.2192 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12397 @ 0.00037389 = 4.6351 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18469 @ 0.00037408 = 6.9089 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.0003749 = 2.3619 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41328 @ 0.00037492 = 15.4947 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33903 @ 0.00037508 = 12.7163 BTC [+]
BTC-Mining: Either non-publicly or moved to a new exchange.
mircea_popescu: i'd say that with the dissapearance of glbse, "ASICMINER" as referenced is no longer trading.
BTC-Mining: Well yes, it states trading, not publicly trading. It would also not be discontinued.
BTC-Mining: Simply delisted from GLBSE due to it's closure.
BTC-Mining: A stock exchange going away/delisting assets does not void said assets.
BTC-Mining: Eh, considering everyone who'll want to sell their hard to trade shares, they'll probably be cheaper to acquire than if GLBSE was still around.
mircea_popescu: but in order for them to be trading they do have to be.. trading
BTC-Mining: Yes... let's see about that if anything actually happens for issuers to manage the assets outside GLBSE.
BTC-Mining: Sad thing tho, telling my curious relatives what I was doing and my numbers (I was making a hefty profit trading on GLBSE with the constant price swings), kind of got them interested in it.
BTC-Mining: My young sister ended getting funds on GLBSE the day before it closed.
BTC-Mining: Aye, kept telling it's damn too risky.
smickles: I am, don't you know what inb4 means?
markac: Generally used on internet forums, inb4 refers to a user posting a reply to a message/topic "before" another user posts an obvious response. When used appropriately, inb4 is followed by a word or shor
BTC-Mining: Hey, she doesn't have much money at all either, you know students.
mircea_popescu: did she get her money OFF glbse or had she just deposited ?
BTC-Mining: I don't even know how much she deposited, I'll have to call her.
BTC-Mining: [00:25] <BTC-Mining> My young sister ended getting funds on GLBSE the day before it closed.
BTC-Mining: Notice the "gettings funds on GLBSE" part
BTC-Mining: I would probably have ended up managing the BTC however.
BTC-Mining: I doubt so... how much did Usagi deposit?
BTC-Mining: He went drunk, or at least a bit like goat.
BTC-Mining: Posting oddly forumlated text and being incoherent.
B0g4r7: Couldn't have been much. Their last sweep into the cold wallet on Oct 4th totaled 165 BTC and change.
BTC-Mining: Also, what will I do if I can't trade on the large price swings and price difference from GLBSE?
____Atlas_____: You might want to consider making an independent stock exchange
B0g4r7: On the moon or in orbit maybe.
BTC-Mining: Not long before going back to the UK for the bitcoin conference
BTC-Mining: Nefario was in China visiting his wife's relatives.
B0g4r7: or, as ppl have been saying a lot, on tor.
smickles: have a series of drones keep the server airborn in internationaly territory
B0g4r7: Sounds good. Kinda like the riverboat casinos.
BTC-Mining: Make a freakin' floating fortress you mean!
B0g4r7: And gliders and balloons.
smickles: you can program them to pass off the server to an freshly charged one and return to a recharging station
B0g4r7: All you need is the data link to the surface.
B0g4r7: I suppose you could use 802.11esque gear.
B0g4r7: If they hung out low enough.
BTC-Mining: You could also simply buy out an island nation...
B0g4r7: I guess the atmosphere doesn't really extend but a few miles up, no?
B0g4r7: Shouldn't be a problem.
B0g4r7: Islands can be assaulted.
smickles: let's get elon musk to buy bitcoin a sat-net
smickles: bitcoin, first currency of the last frontier
B0g4r7: A distributd redundant skynet is much more resiliant.
smickles: i'm going to make one of those arduino quadcopter drones and program it to find water, find a good spot, drop in a line, hook a fish, and brink it back to me
B0g4r7: I routinely deploy wife-esque PtP and PtMP radio links up to 20 miles using not-so-expensive gear. Seems workable tecchnically if the whole flight thing works out
B0g4r7: And coverage is dense enough.
B0g4r7: "I need to wait for one to fly over to send this transaction" lol.
smickles: I want a darknet where network nodes are automatically compensated in BTC for legit traffic
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31300 @ 0.00037506 = 11.7394 BTC [-]
B0g4r7: A distributed FS, based on bittorrent-style p2p, incorporating BTC.
smickles: it's what the internet should be, by the people, for the people
B0g4r7: Run a node, host content, get paid BTC.
B0g4r7: Wanna be sure your content's replicated and available? Pay a few Satoshis.
BTC-Mining: And I'd want efficient governments who don't have to forbid activities simply because protecting people and separating harmful activities from non-harmful ones would be too hard if said activities were not forbidden.
BTC-Mining: I doubt governments could be as efficient however.
smickles: well, B0g4r7 i think there would still be hosting companies
BTC-Mining: If they'd at least get all their paperwork informatized...
B0g4r7: Sure, companies could do it just as individuals could.
B0g4r7: But no, the idea is to be fully decentralized.
B0g4r7: Anyone can host, anyone can publish.
B0g4r7: Pay some BTC, and your publication gets replicated by those who collect that same BTC.
B0g4r7: Need some BTC? Put some storage and bandwidth to work running a node and collect some.
BTC-Mining: Hey... if we could at least get things done centrally... like changing our address for all government bodies at the same place...
smickles: B0g4r7: think nanobtc tho, with a system like what we're talking about, the cost of bandwith drops to near zero
BTC-Mining: Have some online portal to manage our citizen-government relation...
B0g4r7: well, yeah, BTC was a generalization.
BTC-Mining: Things would get much more efficient...
gribble: Best bid: 12.674, Best ask: 12.7, Bid-ask spread: 0.02600, Last trade: 12.674, 24 hour volume: 27944, 24 hour low: 12.51, 24 hour high: 12.89999
BTC-Mining: Silly governments still mostly paperwork...
B0g4r7: Then individuals could vote on individual issues instead of relying on elected reps to do this for them.
B0g4r7: Uh oh, that's dangerous talk.
BTC-Mining: Very inefficient medium to store information.
smickles: oh my, you ever get a good wiff of balls and it smelled good?
____Atlas_____: BTC-Mining: Asian countries have had such systems for awhile
BTC-Mining: I'd agree with B0g4r7... it could also, theorically, be possible for the whole population to vote an all issues...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.DICE] 350 @ 0.00339994 = 1.19 BTC [+]
B0g4r7: Yeah, if they cared enough to login and do it.
B0g4r7: If they didn't, oh well, they didn;t weigh in, but they will have had their chance.
BTC-Mining: Atlas... I would vertainly love too...
B0g4r7: Atlas, what systems are you referring to?
B0g4r7: The one described above?
____Atlas_____: It's like how law and ID systems should be in the 21st century
smickles: anyone here want to/can do an mtgoxusd->ing p2p, i see an arb op
BurtW: mircea_popescu: are you still here?
____Atlas_____: I keep having these dreams of being on elevators that go side-to-side, up and down in these large futuristic office complexes
____Atlas_____: Then people get on and we talk in this weird foreign language
____Atlas_____: Then I get off and follow a woman and she gives me her phone number
____Atlas_____: One of these days I am going to decipher, remember it and call it
B0g4r7: I remember it from my own dream about 12 years back.
BTC-Mining: And hear the most soul chilling voice of pure evilness answers, telling you truths that would have preferred to never hear about?
BTC-Mining: So you can then ponder why you called.
____Atlas_____: "Glenn Beck raped and murdered a little girl in 1999."
____Atlas_____: Honestly, I wouldn't mind that. I already hear ghosts whisper in my ear at night. I am already going batshit insane.
BTC-Mining: Yeah... I think there's more scary than that...
B0g4r7: "in a world gone mad, sanity's no real sign of health"
____Atlas_____: I am pretty confident my sanity is in tact though. These probably are real entities trying to contact me.
____Atlas_____: Anecdotal evidence shows it happens to a lot of people.
B0g4r7: Ever watch the first Final Fantasy movie, The Spirits Within?
B0g4r7: It had that kind of a thing, communication in a dream.
BTC-Mining: ghosts? Wouldn't it be schizophrenia? Common symptom is auditory hallucinations.
B0g4r7: I saw a doc on Tesla, and it said that's where a lot of his ideas came from.
____Atlas_____: BTC-Mining: Meh, there are usually more symptoms than this.
B0g4r7: He's get a "flash from beyond", and knew that he had to bring it into being in the physical world.
B0g4r7: boom, fantastic invention(s).
BTC-Mining: Eh, there's all sorts of levels of symptoms for such things. Sometimes you only get a few if it's mild.
smickles: damn, I just spent 5 min. logging into liberty reserve, only to find that I left nothing there
____Atlas_____: B0g4r7: Several hypnotherapists will confirm that's how most innovation happens.
____Atlas_____: Apparently Earth and humanity is one of the lowest forms of sentient life in the universe.
B0g4r7: Seemingly there are things above.
B0g4r7: I suppose it would be naive to assume that there are not.
gribble: Best bid: 12.674, Best ask: 12.71001, Bid-ask spread: 0.03601, Last trade: 12.71001, 24 hour volume: 28057, 24 hour low: 12.51, 24 hour high: 12.89999
____Atlas_____: Meanwhile, the complete dumbass continues to ruin the page
B0g4r7: What Would Jimmy Wales Do?
____Atlas_____: Probably spew some dribble about values, integrity and consensus.
____Atlas_____: And how even the lowest form of life deserves wasted effort when it comes to crap on a wikipedia page.
____Atlas_____: Then he wonders why most articles don't have "good status"
BTC-Mining: [01:03] <____Atlas_____> Apparently Earth and humanity is one of the lowest forms of sentient life in the universe.
BTC-Mining: [01:03] <____Atlas_____> Apparently this is the very definition of hell.
midnightmagic: Yeah, right. China is more free than UK? I guess, if you're willing to risk the wrath of the oligarchs.
____Atlas_____: midnightmagic: That's only if you bother the politicians
mircea_popescu: ____Atlas_____ that means "if you don't make any money"
mircea_popescu: this consumer culture. you think you chose ? why'd you choose. you're the cow.
smickles: mircea_popescu: well, that day was my brother and sister's birthday. we had a party
____Atlas_____: If you are capable of making money, you have value. You just have to use it to your advantage.
midnightmagic: That's an amazing ass you have, it sounds almost it can talk..
mircea_popescu: sure it can. but it can't be aquired by just about anybody.
midnightmagic: Mobs tend to have trouble operating in a totalitarian regime where both the government and the people hate them in equal measure, and the death penalty takes basically one annoyed judge somewhere to point his finger and make half a town disappear.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic not really true. the russians never got anywhere against their vor.
____Atlas_____: The world is absolutely rudderless. No authority is sacred.
midnightmagic: Corruption is indeed rampant in China. But the government doesn't like competition..
midnightmagic: yeaah.. Just because something pops into your head and you can't think of anything else, that doesn't make it true, Atlas.
noagendamarket: wonder how much bitcoin has to be before we can pay off politicians i some country
jcpham: shitbag are you talking to me
midnightmagic: At this point, since you are the one talking about needing triad protection, it's time for you to give up some evidence. Pretend I said nothing, assume I withdraw all my comments. You make an assertion. Now back it up.
____Atlas_____: midnightmagic: I am here to have a discussion and a mixture of ideas.
____Atlas_____: I am not out to prove mine but rather consider all possibilities.
midnightmagic: ____Atlas_____: In that case, I'm going to call shedanigans, and point and laugh.
jcpham: singularity events can compete
midnightmagic: Oh good grief, I started him off on one of his weird diatribes.
____Atlas_____: You see, this person is not interested in a discussion rather a social battle of sorts.
mircea_popescu: ____Atlas_____ remind me what has this to do with btc assets
____Atlas_____: that would otherwise would be pure energy-wasting whiteness
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.0003727 = 5.3296 BTC [-]
Gladamas: Hey Atlas, you sent on LitecoinTalk that you were leaving the BTC forum, then someone named "Atlas" joined the forum. Was that you?
____Atlas_____: Gladamas: I left under the condition I remained banned
Gladamas: ah, well nice to see you back :) you really do have some good viewpoints.
Gladamas: I think some of the people mad at you are just jealous at your logic
Gladamas: You're very welcome, I mean it
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P200T] 1000 @ 0.75236384 = 752.3638 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P190T] 880 @ 0.66257291 = 583.0642 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P130T] 170 @ 0.19728394 = 33.5383 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P120T] 85 @ 0.14383845 = 12.2263 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P140T] 220 @ 0.25780139 = 56.7163 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.0003727 = 12.4482 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20700 @ 0.00037153 = 7.6907 BTC [-]
BTC-Mining: "I assume he's spending user deposits. Maybe he's using his own money, but I don't think he has enough to cover lawyer fees. He said in the meeting that he wants BitcoinGlobal to pay for the lawyer."
BTC-Mining: That's exactly the kind of things I was talking about when people state their opinion/speculation as facts...
mircea_popescu: "His name is Nefario. How could you people not see this coming?" this is so retarded.
BTC-Mining: You don't start executing someone for murder, than investigate if he was the murdered.
____Atlas_____: He is technically already violating policy left and right
BTC-Mining: Yes, but he hasn't stolen anything... the first claim by theymos was stating it as a fact, when he was just speculating.
BTC-Mining: He hasn't been proven to have stolen anything*
BTC-Mining: It should have been stated as such that it was an opinion/guess and why
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining things presented as fact but w/o acompanying documentation should be read as opinions.
mircea_popescu: something's not a fact by virtue of carrying a "fact" tag given by the author.
BTC-Mining: No... in my book you write them as "I think/believe/would guess that X because Y"
mircea_popescu: you can write it any way you please, but unless it's "here's so and so and here's the proof" it ain't a fact.
BTC-Mining: Not simply state X. It confuses people as having been witnessed by the claimer.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00037432 = 2.5079 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00037546 = 2.2152 BTC [+]
BTC-Mining: Well the thing is, by formulating it as a fact, one could believe theymos actually saw that funds were being moved away from the reserve.
BTC-Mining: There's a reason the english language has words such as "could, might, guess, believe, think, etc."
BTC-Mining: He later said "I assume he's spending user deposits. Maybe he's using his own money, but I don't think he has enough to cover lawyer fees. He said in the meeting that he wants BitcoinGlobal to pay for the lawyer."
____Atlas_____: I am just finding it hard to be empathic towards someone who closed down a mutually owned company without clear consent
mircea_popescu: you're comitting the exact converse of the error you protest it seems. theymos saw something, did he ?
BTC-Mining: Acknowledging he might be using his own money, and that he just claimed he stole fund because he didn't think Nefario had the money for a lawyer.
mircea_popescu: now look. if i go into a house with a girl and come out with a body
mircea_popescu: well that's the problem. you haven't, but in your place i have.
BTC-Mining: Okay... so assuming you didn't see what you think you saw and there was no body, you'd go around claiming a murder?
BTC-Mining: I'd probably report it stating I saw someone carrying what seemed like a body out of a house.
BTC-Mining: I state what I see for what it is. If I'm just speculating, I'd present it as such.
FabianB_: in any case and whatever happend, nef should've known there's lots of negative gossip in the community if there are no clear statements from him, lol
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining when you look at your computer do you see something that seems like a screen
BTC-Mining: Because I can see it up close and I know it to be a screen.
BTC-Mining: Eh... you'd want a distance at which I'd claim or not claim to have seen something?
mircea_popescu: fact of the matter is, knowledge is always assailable from a purely nominalist perspective.
____Atlas_____: I try to look at the relevance of right and wrong in this case
BTC-Mining: Yes. But that you decide to claim what you saw or not as a body, you still can't say you witnessed a murder.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining for the same reason you decide you saw a screen i decide i saw a murder.
BTC-Mining: You could reasonably assume a murder was committed.
mircea_popescu: the reason natural languages are natural is that you always have to begin communication by negotiating terms.
mircea_popescu: there's never going to be a workable version were we instantly understand what the other means just by reading the words
BTC-Mining: But you saw a body being carried out. As such you cannot claim that you saw the person carrying said body murdered someone. You can only guess or propose said person as the probable murderer.
mircea_popescu: i never claimed i saw the guy murder someone. i just claimed i saw a murder.
BTC-Mining: You can state the first as a fact, and the second as a proposition
BTC-Mining: Okay. So in your example it's fine then.
mircea_popescu: yes, but it only becomes fine after you overcome your initial interpretation of what i said
BTC-Mining: But theymos, on the other hand, apparently didn't saw anything.
BTC-Mining: But theymos still stated like it was set in stone "He is also illegally using user deposits to pay for his lawyer."
mircea_popescu: well theymos is also an idiot. i was just using this as a convenient example.
BTC-Mining: Well the whole argument was about how how presenting an opinion/guess as a fact is bad if you didn't directly witness the fact, as it creates confusion for the listener.
mircea_popescu: yeah. moreover, about how there's little choice in the matter : you're always going to create confusion. it's part of communication.
BTC-Mining: or at least that's what I was stating until you interupted me to say that anything presented as a fact is an opinion.
BTC-Mining: Yes, always going to be some confusion.
____Atlas_____: A fact is merely a unified vision of an arbitrary number of individuals.
mircea_popescu: which is why we don't take forum shit *that* seriously. to keep our sanity.
BTC-Mining: I'm simply stating I'm quite astonished at the sheer amount of hearsay/opinion/etc. presented as facts instead of for what it is...
BTC-Mining: When I'm talking to people in person, I'm used to people being much clearer and honest about what is their opinion and what they claim as facts.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining you probably spend a lot of time in an academic environment.
midnightmagic: Wittgenstein thought that most of what people say to one another is never fully understood.
BTC-Mining: I suppose according to stereotypes, that makes perfect sense...
____Atlas_____: As a absurdist-nihilist, it's hard for me to get into these kinds of arguments.
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: Every conversation he had was apparently full of, "But what do you MEAN?" At least according to this book I read called "Wittgenstein's Poker"
reeses: Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen.
mircea_popescu: .tr :en :de of the crooked reeses of women no straight cock was ever made
markac: mircea_popescu: "der schiefe reeses der Frauen nicht gerade Schwanz war jemals gemacht" (en to de, translate.google.com)
____Atlas_____: I teach you the overman. Man is something that shall be overcome. What have you done to overcome him?
____Atlas_____: All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment...
reeses: god just shut up you shallow, twee, fool
reeses: if I had a soul, it would thank you
reeses: ____Atlas_____: I hear you like to try to kill your failure by killing your body
reeses: it’s not an option if you refuse to take it
reeses: then it’s just a chomskyan pseudo-option
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37400 @ 0.00037153 = 13.8952 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20900 @ 0.0003711 = 7.756 BTC [-]
____Atlas_____: There are many options that we do not exercise immediately.
____Atlas_____: If that is the case, I happily accept that limitation.
BTC-Mining: Well, if you're deterministic and believe every choice you make were guaranteed by the current state and movement of matter and energy in the universe... You could say no one actually make decision, what they do is simply what every atom in they body would make them do.
BTC-Mining: eh, I'm not sure how that would work...
BTC-Mining: Eh, well I'm not very concerned about if there's anything after death and if that would possibly interact directly with the observable universe.
____Atlas_____: Assuming there is an origin of this universe, of whatever means, it could be deducted we are of that origin, we are or were a part of that origin.
____Atlas_____: but that's not clear as my body and perception remain stable
BTC-Mining: Yes... we might just as well be bored entities among nothingness who needed something to do, so we created a universe as a playground in which we would not remember having ever lived outside of it.
BTC-Mining: It's not something we can answer in any case. Kind of hard to be concerned about it when it could be anything or nothing.
BTC-Mining: You could ponder about it endlessly making as many scenarios you want, but never even come close to the reality of things.
BTC-Mining: and in the end, you have lost the only thing you were sure of, which is your current existence as a human.
BTC-Mining: Having fun is part of being human and imagination can be amusing.
BTC-Mining: What's the problem femtotube, other than GLBSE is closing down?
femtotube: BTC-Mining: ??? are you a fkn retard? I had portfolio in GLBSE and now it's all gone. Zero
BTC-Mining: Well as long as we get asset holders list, all assets are still perfectly valid even if not on an exchange.
BTC-Mining: It would be a bit harder, but I don't see why it couldn't be traded OTC style with a room he on freenode like the #bitcoin-otc
____Atlas_____: BTC-Mining: That takes some labor and time for everyone
Luceo: GLBSE is apparently going to be giving everyone enough information to continue their securities
femtotube: OTC? In community, where 99% are liars and scumbags? Are you fkn serious?
mircea_popescu: the entire thing could end up a morass of double claims
femtotube: the entire fkn forum is run by a scumbag, who wanted to dump his shares on some poor idiot with coin
____Atlas_____: Delusion is usually characterized with a false sense of reality; not accepting events as they come.
mircea_popescu: the exchange whereby joe buys a sack in which may be some potatoes in exchange for an enveolpe wherein may be some money has nothing to do with free markets.
femtotube: free market? wtf do you even know about free market? I guess nothing
____Atlas_____: In this case, theymos is free to do whatever the fuck he wants with his GLBSE stock.
femtotube: altas, jou are a cluless fuck with no real life experience. just stfup
femtotube: i rather not spend my time arguing with someone as clueless as you , atlas.
BTC-Mining: or... someone is just angry that his money is... gone
BTC-Mining: Hope you didn't have too much and too many different kind of assets femtotube then.
femtotube: Atlas you have never done anything in your life except blabbering in forums and irc. You have never invested, you have never lost or win. You are like a piece of shit on a street.
BTC-Mining: But you know, asset issuer can probably act as escrows for shares transfer.
____Atlas_____: I rather be the kind of free floater on a public urinal that got there mysteriously...
____Atlas_____: Then when the janitor comes to clean me up: He goes fuck no.
____Atlas_____: He tries to have Jose do it. Jose is like no fuck you.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48100 @ 0.00037151 = 17.8696 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15457 @ 0.0003711 = 5.7361 BTC [-]
____Atlas_____: Until some trucker comes to clean me off with his 10 gallon piss
femtotube: anyone has nefario's tel number and the address?
____Atlas_____: With this sufficiently answered, will change economics as we know it.
femtotube: and what is this ass-hat nefarios real name?
k3t3r: that address is wrong james lives in manchester
assbot: [MPEX] [O.BTCUSD.P150T] 385 @ 0.33107717 = 127.4647 BTC [-]
BTC-Mining: Yes, although is location changed a few times.
femtotube: what went wrong with my /ignore ? I still see this idiots posts.
k3t3r: though james is irish so maybe a relative
BTC-Mining: What's such a big fuss anyway, stock exchanges delist assets on occasions, it doesn't mean everything is lost, just that the asset is no longer traded on an exchange.
mircea_popescu: point being, to qualify as an exchange in that sense, there'd have to be a way for ownership to be established and verified.
mircea_popescu: atm the entire codes mess is due to the fact glbse purported to be an exchange, sold itself as an exchange, but it was merely a dumbass website, not an exchange.
BTC-Mining: What is the usual method to establish ownership?
mircea_popescu: online the gpg system might be sufficient (hasn't really been tested yet)
BTC-Mining: It seems a method will be implemented, albeit after the worse has happened.
mircea_popescu: i still dunno how they can go from (users in db) state to (independent yet verified ownership) state
BTC-Mining: login, give BTC address/email, send that to asset issuers.
k3t3r: or some other system without the ability to trade
mircea_popescu: if user X has 3 assets, you can't give his name/pw to 3 issuers
BTC-Mining: I think that's the plane, to bring an online tool for GLBSE to log on for asset holders to give their email/btc address.
BTC-Mining: No, the holder would log in on GLBSE.com. The holder would give an email/btc address.
____Atlas_____: mircea_popescu: These people are not on your level of conciousness.
BTC-Mining: Then GLBSE would email the email and BTC address to the asset issuers.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining i imagine the issuer to the shareholder, in your system. right ?
mircea_popescu: email traffic is neither encrypted nor is it so reliable.
mircea_popescu: you're basically sending this stuff plaintext over the wires.
BTC-Mining: So? We're no longer talking about claim codes.
mircea_popescu: so, i glbse put the website back up. all customers login, and have a set of tickboxes
BTC-Mining: We're talking about issuer receiving a BTC address of the shareholders.
mircea_popescu: of which issuers they want their email and btc addy communicated. fair enough ?
mircea_popescu: what if i come after 35 days and say i was on vacartion ?
mircea_popescu: so this completed somehow, in like a week or whatever, and everyone ticked boxes.
mircea_popescu: now, glbse distributes these lists to the asset issuers. right ?
BTC-Mining: Issuers can pay to said BTC address, at least.
mircea_popescu: i thoguht that was already sent out, we're only doing the paper.
mircea_popescu: if i have 100 btc and 3 tickers in my portofolio you plan to what, give each ticker 33 btc ?
BTC-Mining: No, funds that are not spent are to be returned to the account owner.
mircea_popescu: ok. so now, the issuers have list of email addy and btc addy.
BTC-Mining: Only the BTC address with number of shares tied to it will be sent to issuers.
mircea_popescu: if they need to pay dividends they can *claim* they paid.
drekk: don't aim too high. this is the internet & bitcoin & anonymous users after all. you won't find a smooth way to handle this like IRL. imho
mircea_popescu: except, after the 1st dividend run all customer addys are now public.
mircea_popescu: so now suppose customer X complains he didn't get dividend.
mircea_popescu: ____Atlas_____ i suggest nefario is shot, and any further cocky nitwits purporting to create this sort of messes are stripped and beaten, first.
BTC-Mining: The same could be said about GLBSE if someone claimed to have an incorrect balance on his account.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining no, cause it wouldn't be a game of chase among 3.
mircea_popescu: so. did glbse not give correct list, did issuer not pay all people or did guy lie about being entitled to dividend ?
BTC-Mining: The underlying issue remains the same it seems...
mircea_popescu: when more than two people are responsible nobody can be made responsible.
BTC-Mining: With GLBSe possibly giving the wrong list.
BTC-Mining: instead of GLBSE stealing shares, Nefario gives his own address for some or all shares, for example.
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining that is an entirely diff class of valid objection
BTC-Mining: Or that would be claimed by issuer after people complain they haven't received anything.
mircea_popescu: what if nefario just fills in with his addy for all those who don't respond ?
mircea_popescu: he then will be making more by closing down glbse than he ever made running it.
BTC-Mining: Yes. Especially if afterward he close the method to submit BTC addys
BTC-Mining: Since other investors are missing then, they have no recourse, and since not all holders are publicly known, there's no way to know that.
mircea_popescu: well. so, there's a saying, "one fool thows a rock in the sea and ten wise men struggle to fish it out"
drekk: your discussion is interesting, but who'd be actually in charge to do anything like that?
mircea_popescu: he's thrown it in, fuckall knows how to get it back out.
mircea_popescu: drekk well that's ALSO unclear. nefario or theymos or "the community"
femtotube: so, what the plan to fix this mess and move on?
drekk: well if its nefario, everything dies at that point
mircea_popescu: the EXACT same blueprint. zhou and tihan = nefario and theymos
drekk: dont know what to make of theymos atm
femtotube: no, i will not because bitcoinica has nothing to do with fixing something
mircea_popescu: the mess will (in my opinion) never be resolved. ever.
femtotube: it another scam that was run by "respected" LOL! members of this "community"
mircea_popescu: femtotube the same members. nefario is an interscamgro alumni.
drekk: from now on, i'll work hard to never be respected by the community
femtotube: mircea_popescu: i understand how this makes you feel good and you can gloat now like never before
BTC-Mining: I would have other people's funds but no way to return them.
femtotube: because you are just another sociopath in this ugly BTC community
BTC-Mining: mircea, notice the usage of the word "would", pointing to the fact it's hypothetical
femtotube: mircea_popescu: no, you are romanian
BTC-Mining: I'm not talking about the why, but because you said "[04:57] <mircea_popescu> BTC-Mining mind you, this is just my opinion."
BTC-Mining: Which I was pointing out understand that by using "would"
mircea_popescu: it's a stinky situation to be in especially because you may THINK you're ok, everyone claimed, everyone was taken care of, all is good
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20018 @ 0.0003711 = 7.4287 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18682 @ 0.00037054 = 6.9224 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: so there'd have to be a statute of limitations baked in at any rate, otherwise nobody sane would accept to be part of this as an issuer
BTC-Mining: Which might be legitimate or a complete fraud.
mircea_popescu: and obviously in a decentralized currency nobody has the authority to make such a statute
BTC-Mining: Well to each system, it's advantages I guess...
mircea_popescu: i think it's a perfect lesson in practical politics, economics and law for all involved.
BTC-Mining: But are the average bitcointalk folks even able to get a lesson out of this...
mircea_popescu: well, nobody cares about average folk. experience benefits those involved.
BTC-Mining: I was pretty much saying for involved folks...
BTC-Mining: Seeing as how most seem to act around the forums.
Eisenhower34: may I ask about the topic of your conversation? whats "this" in "average bitcointalk folks even able to get a lesson out of this"
mircea_popescu: we were auditing the proposed process to get out of the glbse singularity.
Eisenhower34: So just that GLBSE is down or have there been updates about that "singularity" ....
BTC-Mining: GLBSE is not just down, it's closing definitly
drekk: wondering if/how this will affect btc/fiat exchange rates
Eisenhower34: touched pirate... it broke... touched BDT... it broke... touched MBT... it broke... and now GLBSE is done....
____Atlas_____: I mean, if a good portion believes it will go down because of this
drekk: mircea_popescu, i've come to the conclusion that everything's possible in bitcoin world :P
mircea_popescu: ya but glbse volume was something like... 3 months of glbse = 1 day of mtgox
____Atlas_____: This is what makes a market irrational at times because of a perceived irrationality.
Eisenhower34: Wondering when mtgox goes offline... thats the only online market thing where I got more bitcoins right now...
mircea_popescu: pirate's crap made a +-30% dent, but that was 500k-ish
Eisenhower34: If I would be you Id pull all my BTC out of mtgox
____Atlas_____: Eisenhower34: There's a reason I stopped daytrading today
____Atlas_____: Things are about to hit the shitter in regards to regulation
mircea_popescu: for one, contrary to what most everyone (on the forum) seems to think, sec regulation is very unlike the jackbooted thugedness everyone seems to expect.
mircea_popescu: these aren't white street cops in a black neighbourhood.
mircea_popescu: realistically they'd either put up a guideline or talk to people involved ("advise as to X Y Z")
mircea_popescu: OneEyed practically, there's no actual way to transfer authority in a btc corp
OneEyed: ____Atlas_____: theymos said that he said he wouldn't move even if he was voted out
mircea_popescu: this is why mpex doesn't even recognize the concept of shareholder vote.
OneEyed: ____Atlas_____: so as far as I know, they haven't voted him out yet
BTC-Mining: I'd say like mircea. For some reason Nefario might just want to quit altogether and isn't forced to close GLBSE. He might just be running from his responsibility as the manager of GLBSE.com
OneEyed: ____Atlas_____: so they haven't put a motion forward because of that?
mircea_popescu: ____Atlas_____ which explains to you why this is never getting resolved.
OneEyed: ____Atlas_____: do you see what's wrong here? He they put a motion and he refuses to release control of the assets, *then* he is acting openly in violation of the shareholders agreement
____Atlas_____: OneEyed: The question is the agreement can be enforced?
OneEyed: mircea_popescu: sure, but they have done nothing about it, not even a motion
mircea_popescu: OneEyed they're not particularly experienced in these things.
OneEyed: noagendamarket: did you put up a motion signed by a majority of shareholders?
OneEyed: noagendamarket: ok, so no motion was voted, so he has *not* refused to go out when facing a motion
OneEyed: So we can conclude that we do not have a majority of shareholders formally objecting to Nefario being in charge.
OneEyed: noagendamarket: of course he does matter. If he refused to hand over the database while having been removed from the board, that would probably make him liable of other illicit acts.
OneEyed: ____Atlas_____: ok, so bend over and take him deep, don't object, do nothing
____Atlas_____: OneEyed: The guy probably has a plane ticket off to China right now
Luceo: So, whos setting up a tor or p2p exchange?
mircea_popescu: OneEyed you have a solid point, but they're kids and don;t know how thigns work.
PsychoticBoy: Now glbse is closed, I will quit pumping btc in stocks etc I am quiting
____Atlas_____: mircea_popescu: You can't possibly think the legal process works most of the time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35567 @ 0.0003734 = 13.2807 BTC [+]
PsychoticBoy: Nefario fucked us, If I knew this, Then I had punched him at the conference and HARD
OneEyed: PsychoticBoy: I'm really sorry for you FDBF managers, your job was examplary
____Atlas_____: mircea_popescu: A court ruling isn't going to bring your dead child back.
PsychoticBoy: If I only could go back in time and just kicked nef in the nuts at the conference
____Atlas_____: Meh, I just don't see what we could get out of Nefario if we charge him.
____Atlas_____: I guess I haven't lost enough in this case. I got most of my money out in time.
noagendamarket: single handedly ripped the guts out of the entire economy
Luceo: ____Atlas_____: Is there a better option than court at this point? I'm no fan of the state but it seems like these issues are constant at this point with no way to collect debt or deal with scammers.
____Atlas_____: Luceo: Nope. We could have gangs do our bidding but that will just bring Bitcoin to illicit level.
Luceo: ____Atlas_____: Those gangs are viable in a single locale, they're far less viable in a global market
BTC-Mining: Psychotic, technically, FDBF might still be managed without GLBSE. Only it would be excessively hard and time consuming to do so.
Luceo: Use cryptostocks or mpex :P
Luceo: This is the point though where we should be thinking about how to get the exchanges off the clearnet
Luceo: It may well have been legal issues that forced nefario's hand
____Atlas_____: I like that this happened because people are now going to take stocks seriously.
BTC-Mining: I doubt it's legal issues, albeit possible.
Luceo: ____Atlas_____: People need to take stock EXCHANGES seriously
Luceo: BTC-Mining: theymos thinks it's legal
Luceo: And he's a major partner
____Atlas_____: Ugh, they should of just hosted it in Russia where they do not give a flying fuck
BTC-Mining: Aye... but theymos stated Nefario used users deposit to pay a lawyer, then admitted he was actually just making a guess as he didn't think Nefario had the money for a lawyer and wanted one.
BTC-Mining: So I don't trust theymos' say too much.
Eisenhower34: believe? in btc? btc was a good idea but it attracts too many ... "fraud"
Eisenhower34: If Id get my BTC from pirate / glbse / BDT / mybitcointrade ... id still have 2k BTC ...
Eisenhower34: started with pirate 2 months before he defaulted
Eisenhower34: started with MBT 3 weeks before they gone offline
PsychoticBoy: I urge everyone to never work with Nefario again. A Bitcoin stock exchange is a good idea, though. I hope that someone will create something better than GLBSE and MPEx. ;; quote theymos
BTC-Mining: BTC is excellent for transacting freely over the web.
BTC-Mining: For other purposes... it carries a lot more risk. Very attractive to con artists.
PsychoticBoy: you can better sale shit on SR or BMR that way youll only earn, not lose btc
Eisenhower34: "BTC is excellent for transacting freely over the web." <- only for "maybe non legal business" and only if the other party accepts BTC
gribble: Best bid: 12.69, Best ask: 12.79978, Bid-ask spread: 0.10978, Last trade: 12.69, 24 hour volume: 21154, 24 hour low: 12.51, 24 hour high: 12.89999
____Atlas_____: It will probably do well until its server gets knocked down
____Atlas_____: "Fact. The owner of MPEX has attempted to sell NSFW photos of herself."
____Atlas_____: "Debate MPEX is managed by an untrustworthy romanian pornstar"
noagendamarket: meh if he shuts down glbse before an audit happ[ens no harm no foul lol
noagendamarket: if anyone asks "I dont know nothing" is a good response :P
mircea_popescu: "But skizzle and chop, I gotta bunny hop to the stop for three fiddy and I catch you downside. yo"
kakobrekla: jurov, what is the usercount on coinbr
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1111 @ 0.00037054 = 0.4117 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00036996 = 6.4743 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00036965 = 0.7023 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8889 @ 0.00036936 = 3.2832 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: I refuse to limit myself to documents such as SECURITIES EXCHANGE ACT OF 1934.
mircea_popescu: Haven't read but I think it's safe to say ~30% of what's written in there is ridiculous and make no sense
mircea_popescu: i have read it, and i think it's a monument of sensibility.
mircea_popescu: why do people keep doing this ? and by people i mean retarded teenagers.
noagendamarket: at least nefario updated the website on saturday ...people just didnt like it lol
PsychoticBoy: I wish I was a teenager and knew what I know now
PsychoticBoy: I have one and I dont think she agrees with another ¨bird¨
gribble: Best bid: 12.69, Best ask: 12.79985, Bid-ask spread: 0.10985, Last trade: 12.69, 24 hour volume: 21166, 24 hour low: 12.51, 24 hour high: 12.89999
BTC-Mining: [06:11] <PsychoticBoy> I wish I was a teenager and knew what I know now
BTC-Mining: You mean you wish you were purchasing 1000s of bitcoins at 1 USD/1000 BTC
PsychoticBoy: I have enough coins left but lost a lot at glbse
BTC-Mining: Hmm, what was the price on BTC back then?
PsychoticBoy: bought them for the first time when they were 0.04$ a coin
BTC-Mining: I wish I heard of BTC before it started to get in the news.
BTC-Mining: So long as we can get asset management out of GLBSE
PsychoticBoy: Hope so, investors in FDBF and ABM are complaining already but hee its not MY fault GLBSE is closed
mircea_popescu: BTC-Mining ironically, my forum readers were trying to get me to check out btc for months before i finally did
mircea_popescu: sometime early 2011 / late 2010 i did check it out, happened on some paper about anonymous murder market or some bs and i went .... neeeevermind
BTC-Mining: Bitcoin is pretty much all just another of the many "failure ideas" the web constantly spawn until you actually read and understand the concept behind Bitcoins.
BTC-Mining: Then you realize it's an amazing concept.
PsychoticBoy: I do not like any other alt coin, ppcoin, ltcoin, nmcoin etc no ONLY BTC
BTC-Mining: alt coins are alts to a well established and strong first born, Bitcoins
BTC-Mining: Fun thing I decided to register on MPEx and redeem all my BitVPS shares from GLBSE > MPEx
PsychoticBoy: only the giga.etf buyers are fucked on mpex like all passthroughs
BTC-Mining: I bought 534000 shares of giga.etf earlier today =/
mircea_popescu: PsychoticBoy ya unfortunately, if it tracks a glbse asset it's screwed
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10545 @ 0.00036936 = 3.8949 BTC [-]
PsychoticBoy: so 1 is lucky with s.dice and another one is unlucky with giga.etf
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1 @ 0.0003734 BTC [+]
assbot: !ticker <ticker> (desc: returns current MPEX ticker values)
BTC-Mining: PsychoticBoy, cost me only ~16 BTC for all the GIGA.ETF however.
BTC-Mining: If GLBSE gets the list of asset owners disclosed and Gigavps can still pay, I'd make a big win on it.
assbot: [MPEX:F.GIGA.ETF] 1day: 0.00002002 / 0.00010663 / 0.00027773 (1075074 shares, 114.64 BTC), 30day: 0.00002002 / 0.00041983 / 0.00087369 (11955557 shares, 5,019.42 BTC)
BTC-Mining: So within the month... the equivalent of 11x the GIGA.ETF total shares were traded?
BTC-Mining: 30day: 0.00002002 / 0.00041983 / 0.00087369
mircea_popescu: ya, if we consider asics and reward double a 10600 is maybe quite right
BTC-Mining: 1 GIGA.ETF = 1/1000 of GIGAMINING = 1/1000 of 5 mhash = 5 kilohash
BTC-Mining: 0.00002002 BTC x 12.67410 USD/BTC = 0.000253735482 USD
PsychoticBoy: yes thats true, but how long will it take to be paid now glbse is down
rdponticelli: BTC-Mining: I bought some @7229. Do you think a made a deal?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21731 @ 0.00036936 = 8.0266 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12700 @ 0.0003692 = 4.6888 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18369 @ 0.00036877 = 6.7739 BTC [-]
BTC-Mining: It will all depend on what happens next...
BTC-Mining: Nefario needs to come up with a solution.
BTC-Mining: I'm left with about as much funds whatever happens. Except in one case it's because I get back my assets and they become claimable at their issuer, the other is because I have other people's money and would not know where to return it.
rdponticelli: Yep, obviously, they're a lot of uncertainties
mircea_popescu: this is kinda illustrative of glbse's general irrelevance
Ukto: is it a "company" thing, or what
Bugpowder: Cause I'm not selling it down to 117500
rg: you should lower the MPEX fee
rg: it was already a rip off
mircea_popescu: PeterLambert you also have a bunch of defrauded investors.
PeterLambert: ? maybe they can be included in the glbse shutdown
mircea_popescu: what is this, you think you run with everyone;'s money, come back a year later all is forgotten ?
rg: i was around a year ago and i dont know who he is
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12687 @ 0.00037269 = 4.7283 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 413 @ 0.00037545 = 0.1551 BTC [+]
rg: peterlambert have you come to repay your share holders?
mircea_popescu: ;;rate PeterLambert -3 the original GLBBQ scammer. Made a bunch of "funds", LIF.*, made all sorts of claims as to their investment policies, ran off.
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
mircea_popescu: btc is not for scammers, go back to nigeria or w.e you sprout from.
rg: if theres one thing i hate more than curly haired romanians
mircea_popescu: asshat even deleted his posts, deleted his site, complete and utter scammer.
mircea_popescu: apparently you haven't learned from usagi's mistakes either.
rg: how many btc did you steal
rg: ;;calc 1200 * [ticker --last]
rg: you'd go prison for hat
mircea_popescu: rg it's not even that. it's the eggregiousness of it. he was like, writing extensively about the various stocks and w/e, analuysing them, bla bla.
rg: hey we're making 30%/mo on our deposits!
rg: i cant pay you any of it.
mircea_popescu: i mean, half the people investing at that time didn't even do any dd, just went by his bs.
rg: one thing that's good about glbse closing is..
rg: unexperienced investors wont be able to make uninfomed decisions
rg: he has tons of glbse asstes
PeterLambert: no, I didnt steal bitcoins, i lost them in bad investments and scammers
rg: coinbr's volume is going to go up
mircea_popescu: PeterLambert get lost. you lied about how you were using it, you misrepresented the assets, then you just played the forex market.
rg: coinbr is just in time
mircea_popescu: o yea, yea, cause he ended up buying a bunch of giga.etf
mircea_popescu: Bugpowder he did get it kinda on the cheap so who know
rg: i sold btc-mining a bunch of s.bvps
rg: he's our main share holder right now
rg: oh i need to post this p/l
rg: god damn i hat ebeing bsy
mircea_popescu: rg you know as a general principle you should first make s ure with people they're ok to be publicly outed
Diablo-D3: so I wonder how much money nefario stole
rg: mircea_popescu: well considering we did the trade in public
rg: i dont think it was supposed to be pivate
Diablo-D3: remember when I paid back like 1000 btc?
Diablo-D3: I wonder how much didnt make it out of glbse
rg: i wonder what spooked nefario
mircea_popescu: Diablo-D3 most of it did im pretty sure, they were bleeding btc in the past weeks at an increasing page.
rg: a friend of mine jus tbarges in my room
rg: his leg is coverd in blood
rg: and it appears to be coming out at a good pace
mircea_popescu: mostly the people who were valuing their paper above market value got murdered. there's people with portofolios consisting of 100 btc, 1500 worth of "assets" they were valuing 2-3k
rg: i gues they were 'shooting arrows at the wooden fence'
rg: and somehow he managed to get shot in the back of the leg with an arrow
rg: i dont know if we should call 911
rg: cause instead of putting pressure on it
rg: he ran in here to show me
rg: lol he did get blood on my door
Bugpowder: apply pressure for 5 minutes see if the bleeding slows
rg: i think he might be an EMT
rg: ill go out there in a few mintues to investigate
rg: mircea lets see some porn
rg: smoov: and take forever to heal
rg: seems to be a large occurance of butt lucking
rg: at least every one ive got with has had one
rg: hmm but 'the tool box' seemed like such a kewl name
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16400 @ 0.00037198 = 6.1005 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00037242 = 7.9698 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21346 @ 0.00037198 = 7.9403 BTC [-]
matthewh3: just been on the phone with Nafario for a good half hour
matthewh3: he's not trying to steal anyones coins
Diablo-D3: of course a scammer would say that
matthewh3: those coins he's holding are a legal liability
RogueAI: my main issue is that people questioned nefario about legal issues and he always said he wasn't worried
RogueAI: well now he seems to be quite worried
rg: which would seem to suggst th eissues are not legal
rg: for all we know, nefario found out he has to move to china or something
rg: and cant work on glbse anymore
rg: and istead of hiring someon else
rg: the shareholders said fuc kit
RogueAI: or that he needs to kill off glbse if he wants to register a legal entity in the UK
BTC-Mining: Hey, what's all that talk about nefario taking user's deposits for a lawyer? That's not officially confirmed yet.
RogueAI: besides if it's good enough for Corzine and the rest of Wall Street, it's ok for Nefario ;p
rg: BTC-Mining: .. i surely hope that's a rumor
BTC-Mining: At least theymos, contrary to his first post, eventually confessed he was just guessing it and actually didn't know at all if Nefario took any user's fund.
Bugpowder: The coins he is holding are a legal liability if he doesn't return them to me
BTC-Mining: [14:25] <Bugpowder> if he doesn't return them to me
BTC-Mining: oh, as in yours or 100% of the coins? =P
Bugpowder: he should return the current deposits
Bugpowder: the pirate liability he can't discharge
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.00037377 = 8.3724 BTC [+]
BTC-Mining: Eh. Well I'm off. Visiting relatives this weekend, better get going.
rg: why the fuck are people accusing me of copying data from glbse
rg: all i said was 'glbse has backups'
rg: and everyone took that to mean that I hav the data
matthewh3: basically the jist of what Nafario said on the phone about the shutdown was say he didn't want to go to jail
rg: yeah wellg et your facts straight
rg: and tell him i didn't snoop through his VM
rg: as i even said on hte forum
rg: it wouldnt be mine to give
rg: so this will finally be sorted
gribble: Nick 'matthewh3', with hostmask 'matthewh3!~matthewh3@host86-173-198-2.range86-173.btcentralplus.com', is not identified.
rg: ;;getrating matthewh3
gribble: This user has not yet been rated. WARNING: Currently not authenticated.
rg: god damn people are fucking stupid
rg: i've copied a database that wasnt even hosted at bitvps
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3100 @ 0.00037377 = 1.1587 BTC [+]
cryptorific: rg: people are pissed, rightfully so, and they're looking for some one to hang
rg: well even if i had the data
rg: it wouldnt change anything
rg: people are just connecting pieces that arent there
cryptorific: i'm sure thats the case, but when you can't get your hands on the people tht screw you, you'll tend to go after anyone nearby to let out your frustration, doesn't make it right, but it is to be expected
cryptorific: ugh, anyone know whats the time to get verified by mtgox is running these days?
mircea_popescu: Anduck cauise nefario is either stupid, insane or both.
Anduck: he just shouldve hired some REAL coder to do the platform
Anduck: and then hire some REAL administrator to keep it on
cryptorific: he should have gotten a real securities license
Anduck: it's no real companies, right?
Anduck: it's like a fokin habbo hotell
cryptorific: anduck: just because the currency isn't USD doesn't mean its not a security, I'm certain a good prosecutor will get a jury to believe that bitcoin is a currency, its readily converterible to fiat and functions like currency
Anduck: why isn't habbo hotel coins currency?
Anduck: well you cant trade them back to fiat via their services
Anduck: person to person it is
jurov: haha good... i was also thinking to explain btc in terms of Massive Multiplayer Online Player Game, should I talk to lawyer sometime
Anduck: mircea_popescu: Autor: Mircea Popescu
cryptorific: Anduck: It probably would be considered currency if it came to trial. People forget that because the authoriities allow something doesn't mean they will forever
Anduck: it's considered as a currency when bloomberg says it is currency!
cryptorific: Anduck: if bloomberg considers it a currency then its made it big time
Anduck: exactly, cryptorific. there's no turning back from that point
cryptorific: mircea_popescu: i'm in law school in the US. I say probably because a judge will leave up to the jury the decision of whether bitcoins are a currency. A judge wouldn't make that kind of determination here because its a matter of fact not a legal matter
mircea_popescu: matters of substantive law are never left to the jury.
mircea_popescu: also, civil matters (which this would likely be) aren't usually jury-tried.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9587 @ 0.00037545 = 3.5994 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23713 @ 0.00037546 = 8.9033 BTC [+]
cryptorific: mircea_popescu: operating and issusing unlicensed securities is a criminal matter
cryptorific: look at U.S. v. 3809 Crain Ltd. Partnership, it provides a nice definition of what money or money's worth is
rg: [15:23] <cryptorific> mircea_popescu: operating and issusing unlicensed securities is a criminal matter
rg: not only is that true..
rg: the SEC has a snitch-line setup
rg: where you can narc out companies/individuals right from your computer chair
cryptorific: ya, maybe nefario saw the doors closing in on him, and turned himself in before he got a swat team at his door at 5am sunday morning
mircea_popescu: Any other consideration not reducible to a money value is not consideration in money or money's worth.
cryptorific: bitcoin is reducible to money, as long as there is one guy will to give you fiat or gold, or whatever its reducible to money
cryptorific: and do i think a jury will buy that, yea i do, its not a matter of law its a matter of what a jury will say
cryptorific: mircea_popescu: i'm not saying glbse or mpex should be shut down, i just think from a legal perspective that they have a serious legal liability, mpex less so because its based out of a less friendly jurisidiction but if i were you I'd be getting any politician i can to here my case for official sanction
mircea_popescu: cryptorific it's not really a matter of jurisdiction tbh.
mircea_popescu: (fully willing to file amicus briefs in any us consideration of bitcoin for these purposes)
cryptorific: it is when it comes to getting sent to jail, id imagine extradition is alot harder from romania than the UK, but you're right from the sense of legal liability, it doesn't matter
mircea_popescu: i think people are well jumping the gun with all the criminal and extradition talk.
matthewh3: well Nafario did say he closed the exchange to stay out of jail and that the GLBSE is never coming back. He also did talk about a exchange for fully regulated companies that pay all taxes
Diablo-D3: matthewh3: in other words he lied about the legality of it and stole thousands of bitcoins
cryptorific: Diablo-D3: did nefario ever say it was legal? i was never under the impression that it was licensed
matthewh3: there will be a new licensed exchange for companies that pay all taxes and follow all legal regulations
Azelphur: I miss nefario, all this drama is keeping him off IRC XD
Diablo-D3: matthewh3: and you've been scammer tagged on the forums anyhow
Azelphur: seems like he's trying to bring GLBSE up to legal regs
Diablo-D3: someone else can liquidate DMC, Im sure as hell not going to be
Azelphur: also is that the matthew that made the bet and then ran?
pigeons: no this is matthewh3 from "red star mining"
Azelphur: matthews, matthews everywhere.
pigeons: time to just abandon the whole forum scammer tag deal
Diablo-D3: matthewh3: I didnt "lose" investor money, nefario participated in scams and promoted them for DMC investment.
Diablo-D3: so I hope the UK government fries his ass
mircea_popescu: <pigeons> time to just abandon the whole forum scammer tag deal << ya give theymos one and be done with it
Azelphur: they need to make a bitcoin movie man
Azelphur: so much drama, people would watch that shit
Azelphur: and the main character could be strange onlooker
Azelphur: mircea_popescu: also, I'm poor now
Azelphur: I had my money split between pirate and glbse...so yea
rdponticelli: Azelphur: we already have material for a whole saga of bitcoin movies
Azelphur: hopefully I'll see some of it again :P
Azelphur: Smoovious: yea, I had stuff in bitcoinmax too
cryptorific: azelphur: too bad you didnt visit satoshidice, better odds in honest gambling
Azelphur: inb4 mircea shuts down mpex and requests personal info for withdrawals
cryptorific: lol, i had some pass through on glbse, but i sold them right before the last dividend payment because they shot up to .0038 for some silly reason
Azelphur: also regarding this ID thing, what info does nef actually want?
Azelphur: is it passport and/or drivers license?
Azelphur: apparently he wants MtGox-style AML documents, whatever they are
pigeons: we don't know. theymos implied heavy docs, nefario implied lite docs
mircea_popescu: it's unclear to both ofthem what they're actually doing.
Azelphur: hopefully it's not passport and/or drivers license, as I don't actually have those xD
Diablo-D3: you must be a legally registered company in the US or EU
Azelphur: I feel like the only person to exist that hasn't been abroad, and doesn't drive
mircea_popescu: Stolen Bitcoins never die, although they may be in suspended animation,
mircea_popescu: they do always in fact eagerly await the command of their new masters.
mircea_popescu: "That is not dead which can eternal lie — and with strange aeons even death may die."
bitfoo: mircea_popescu, thanks, that was a good read
bitfoo: I like the idea of a distributed, cryptographically secure MMORPG :)
bitfoo: not that I had anything worthwhile to say
bitfoo: but since you wanted it...