assbot: Unless all major miners begin mining with fully validating node software... users of the latest versions of "Bitcoin Core" are at risk of finding themselves Altcoiners : Bitcoin ... (
http://bit.ly/1fiHTl5 )
decimation: now the question is: how bad is the routing performance
pete_dushenski: decimation that's still tbd on my end. perhaps asciilifeform can comment ?
decimation: running openbsd. I thought ascii had been using netbs
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo "The second fork persisted from 21:50 through to 23:40 on July 5th, 2015" << should include blockheight, neh ?
decimation: given the proprietary kernel used by the edgerouter in its linux variant
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19488 @ 0.00052093 = 10.1519 BTC [-]
decimation: interesting. I didn't see any updates on openbsd saying that the nfs turd was no longer needed
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Haven't seen people talking blockheight. Really as fragile as the thing is atm fuckers ruined my dreams of blockheight as "canonical" measure of time
decimation: pete_dushenski: I assume you are still using the stock uboot which ascii suspects?
decimation: unfortunately blockheight is only a solid concept in retrospect
☟︎ decimation: asciilifeform: one could verify that one has the correct time by observing occultations
decimation: watching bodies pass in front of other bodies
decimation: no, but the question is: who do you trust to tell you the time?
decimation: time (for the moment) still derived from the earth's rotation around the sun (and date by its orbit)
decimation: sure but that's why we have leap seconds
decimation: point being, someone derives time (the iers) from astronomy, sets the cesium, and broadcasts it
☟︎ decimation: note that there are plenty of tools that would work for C
decimation: the virtual functions thing probably eliminates all halfass attempts to use a C based-tool
decimation: asciilifeform: one would think the compiler writers would need such a thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4150 @ 0.00052034 = 2.1594 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: what about clang? I thought stuff like this was the 'reason' it was built
decimation: " Interesting in that virtual inheritance is represented properly; for example in/std/3.4.5.cc yields 3.4.5.png. "
trinque: clang looks like it might be the thing
trinque cooks his balls recompiling llvm
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00052414 = 5.9752 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40500 @ 0.00052004 = 21.0616 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19995 @ 0.00052414 = 10.4802 BTC [+]
trinque: mats: and so nice of google to ship that with their browser
mats: the exploit is interesting
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45850 @ 0.00051884 = 23.7888 BTC [-] {3}
mats: what denomination notes?
trinque: ^ was going to ask next "which currency"
mats: asciilifeform: how am i to submit keys to phuctor without an api for the keyserver? just post?
mats: am i supposed to parse the html or something for a response?
mats: or just piss into the void
mats: yeah i should know better
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43300 @ 0.00052788 = 22.8572 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33383 @ 0.00053195 = 17.7581 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19927 @ 0.00053341 = 10.6293 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: Really as fragile as the thing is atm fuckers ruined my dreams << twas a good dream
mats: any folks very familiar with postgresql in here
mats: id like to know how well caching is supported
mats: i'm exploring the option of _not_ using additional things like redis or memcache
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17500 @ 0.00053474 = 9.358 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: oh well, never seena stack that's operated that way in production. would be interestig in what you come up with.
trinque: mats: depending on the situation, maybe a materialized view is called for
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: if difficulty always goes up what happens in "nuke scenario"?
trinque: mats: in my experience postgresql can do anything those other piles of shit can
trinque: and often just as fast or faster
trinque: mats: what in particular is slow?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: this makes next block work a non obtainable resource tho?
mats: trinque: spec calls for displaying stats, which would probably require caching because pgsql reads from disk otherwise
mats: depending how large db gets i would expect io to get choked
trinque: mats: could write a view that generates your stats, then a materialized view which is refreshed at an interval with "refresh materialized view" or w/e it is
trinque: I like this approach because there's both an interface that is "fast" and also one that is accurate
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: it is seemingly surviving usgavination attempts.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5500 @ 0.00053216 = 2.9269 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50700 @ 0.00053423 = 27.0855 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: no pictures of the radio room?
decimation: home | log | search | deeds | bash | stats | wiki
decimation: Transcript for 05-07-2015, 1135 lines:
assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 16:41:04; asciilifeform: ;;later tell kakobrekla my current understanding of the ph0rk situation is that your hypothesis re: miners being dumb as bricks is essentially correct...
decimation: f2pool admin's explanation is "we got the bad block from antpool, who we don't know how they got because they told us they only follow us"
decimation: 00:00:40 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 16:41:04; asciilifeform: ;;later tell kakobrekla my current understanding of the ph0rk situation is that your hypothesis re: miners
decimation: being dumb as bricks is essentially correct...
decimation: 00:01:03 mircea_popescu: because yes, we're fucktarded enough to not notice what's proposed here is a closed f2pool - antpool loop. they're over there in their own
decimation: 00:01:17 mircea_popescu: i dunno when it became fashionable to be infantile, but i'm getting pretty sick of it.
assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 17:23:18; trinque: yeah, I'm being hyperbolic
decimation: 00:02:39 assbot: Logged on 04-07-2015 17:23:18; trinque: yeah, I'm being hyperbolic
assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 19:49:35; shinohai: mod6: if you want another auto.sh, I'll try and help you when I understand this new build xD
decimation: 00:05:37 assbot: Logged on 03-07-2015 19:49:35; shinohai: mod6: if you want another auto.sh, I'll try and help you when I understand this new build xD
decimation: 00:06:24 mircea_popescu: "Note that the roughly 50% of the network that was SPV mining had explicitly indicated that they would enforce the BIP66 rules. By not doing so,
decimation: several large miners have lost over $50,000 dollars worth of mining income so far."
decimation: 00:06:36 mircea_popescu: leaving aside the inept spin they published, why the fuck are we pricing things in dollars.
decimation: alright, that's the end of my adventure with erc
trinque: lol, I stopped using it myself when I dumped an email to my father in another channel
decimation: decided to shit web browser logs from another buffer into chan
trinque: M-x do-everything-and-lock-up
decimation: one wonders how shitty lisp machine that emacs is emulating gets into such a sad state
decimation: I'm sure rms would blame my non gnu extension
trinque: probably chafing at the emacs|other boundary
decimation: yeah to be fair I'm running stator on this machine, and it only has 2gb ram
decimation: anyway I abandoned irssi because I thought it couldn't handle unicode, but apparently it was my tmux
trinque: I haven't been able to see non-ascii since I put the weechat instance on obsd
trinque: hm could be tmux in my case too
decimation: yeah it turns out tmux is very picky about the terminal you are using when you create it
decimation: plus you need to manipulate unicode options maybe
trinque: yeah, it seemed pissed about my rxvt-unicode-256color when ssh'ing in
trinque: copied over the termcap, which sort of helped
trinque: hm I wonder if this tmux session actually predates copying the termcap
trinque: and in fact, yes; it works now.
trinque: huh... then when disconnecting and reconnecting with tmux, gone.
bagels7: good morning, hwo do you do
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34800 @ 0.00052875 = 18.4005 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42100 @ 0.00051761 = 21.7914 BTC [-]
mats: how goes the money changing
bagels7: well I was into IT then I got a sign from god and went a different path, physical, mental and spiritual fitness. body/mind/spirit all well
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 270.5, Best ask: 271.09, Bid-ask spread: 0.59000, Last trade: 270.48, 24 hour volume: 54919.01843139, 24 hour low: 267.74, 24 hour high: 278.69, 24 hour vwap: None
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32494 @ 0.00051493 = 16.7321 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49250 @ 0.00054157 = 26.6723 BTC [+] {3}
gribble: brendafdez was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 14 weeks, 5 days, 4 hours, 33 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <brendafdez> mircea_popescu it works now. Anyway the IP I'm on now is one of a public AP, it shouldnt be whitelisted. I'll later give you my home IP, and BingoBoingo has my VPS IP already. I didn't know you were filtering.
Vexual: we chack and chack again
Vexual: ;;later tell cazala asx:ipo these kids had the melb free rent desks?
ben_vulpes: punkman: i don't understand the point of your gpgdiddling link
Vexual: 3 months became a heady meatwot?
Vexual: ;;later tell cazzala ^^
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36532 @ 0.00051493 = 18.8114 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 19:39:57; ben_vulpes: i'm beginning to suspect that booting bitcoin nodes cannot be automated in the same way that diddling one's gpg cannot be automated.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7850 @ 0.00051493 = 4.0422 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: leastaways without a wholesale replacement of sync mechanism plus god only knows what else eventually.
Vexual: have you read celetitial vagigation yet?
Vexual: you'll find the reduction tables for free at .mil
decimation: the point about occultations is that you can get tables of when they are supposed to occur for your area. you don't need a fancy telescope, usually cheap bionoculars would suffice for observation
decimation: find predictions for the time they are to occur and compare with your clock under test
☟︎ decimation: as asciilifeform pointed out this comparison would involve some time conversions
Vexual: you'll do best to learn it with out of date info
decimation: asciilifeform: true, but if one person can find time and verify for themselves, they can provide services for others
Vexual: i cant see a solution mut mp's
decimation: even hitler can't move the moon's path
Vexual: let the nodes confirm it
decimation: aye, signed ntp server would be needed
decimation: or a large collection of them run by enthusiastic hobbyists
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53301 @ 0.00054631 = 29.1189 BTC [+] {4}
decimation: the hobbyists rarely bother with pki ntp
decimation: as in, a symmetric pair for time transmission?
mats: asciilifeform: ever looked at safe stack in your professional adventures?
decimation: asciilifeform: agreed, which is why you would need several different keys from different providers
decimation: "snow is a layer 3 virtual network that abstracts the underlying network and allows public keys to be used in place of IP addresses. "
mats: moves stack based buffers to another segment, then stores reference
mats: some folks gotta live with it
mats: others wanna exploit it
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah 'snow' seems to try to maintain a dht across the peers
mats: we diverge on this point
decimation: how do you maintain such a dht without giving enemy a dictionary of ips to attack
mats: thats the primary thing driving my interest in studying windows at all
mats: otherwise i wouldn't subject myself to it
Vexual: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg-RIOATCbU
mats: well, i meant exploitation is what interests me
mats: i don't care about fuzzing at all, folks have much better tooling than i do, and i have no resources of any kind to aid me in that
mats: computing power or particularly deep knowledge of the maths theory involved
mats: if the latter is even necessary, i have no idea
mats: i was under the impression 'diff' implements a variation on 'needleman-wunsch'
mats: can't remember the name of the algo, though
decimation: it would be useful to know basic algorithms and associated time estimates
mats: week one computer science.
Vexual: i saw funkensteins man playin, i could smell the 03
mats: im off to eat an entire large papa johns pizza and re-read chapterhouse (dune)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11930 @ 0.00054616 = 6.5157 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32689 @ 0.00055396 = 18.1084 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: in fact I built llvm and clang earlier today
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59109 @ 0.0005361 = 31.6883 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50450 @ 0.00054922 = 27.7081 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17514 @ 0.000553 = 9.6852 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 71400 @ 0.00052548 = 37.5193 BTC [-] {4}
BingoBoingo rebuilding 0.7-ish client for lulzier version string
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00051599 = 9.391 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31033 @ 0.00055342 = 17.1743 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53500 @ 0.00053942 = 28.859 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14752 @ 0.00053942 = 7.9575 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23500 @ 0.00054456 = 12.7972 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: Vexual, no idea, i think they actually provide the space to others
Vexual: they kinda ghosted after that
Vexual: 3 months free commercial rent, sublet desks at the same rate, voila
Vexual: i havent read the prospectus
Vexual: u say they obtained asicminer hashes in jan tho?
Vexual: kakobrekla: doyou do AXJO?
Vexual: zt has fury and spoonies
cazalla: i read it last night.. they want 20 million to buy more miners with
cazalla: i think dcc shitcanned their mining or at least onsold their capacity
Vexual: yes, but they did it smooth like
Vexual: i think maybe the spoonies in iceland is rented
cazalla: well that is where bitcoin group claim they mine, that and china
cazalla: for something like 0.5% of the hashrate
cazalla: well bitcoin group lost like 250k mining so the model is really just finding people to bail em out
☟︎ Vexual: dunno when the lease is up
Vexual: ahhh right, i dint red
Vexual: do they mention the office space in melb?
cazalla: yeah, that lee guy uses it as proof he has a solid reputation in the bitcoin community.. hai guyz i run a bitcoin meetup so pls gief me 20 mirrion dorrah
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11904 @ 0.00055426 = 6.5979 BTC [+]
Vexual: to have been a fly on the wall
Vexual: i think i mentioned the free rent
cazalla: fkn internets in this country..
Vexual: we should be running more pipes
punkman: asciilifeform: i really fail to grasp for what, precisely, it is, that we need the possibility of falling difficulty. << remember Altcoin? do you prefer the possibility of 1 block per month?
☟︎☟︎ cazalla: part 2 of that report on ndrangheta was on last night, did ya see that Vexual ?
Vexual: i liked the general there of private enterprise
Vexual: i missed the first one
Vexual: but the 2nd had less vanstone
cazalla: both of em were a bit beat up
Vexual: some cop got shot in the head last night in melb too
cazalla: so i hear, took a shot gun to the face and walked away unscatched, prob bullshit story
Vexual: smh carried the story of 2.2 milly paid to courts, no names
Vexual: vanstone was on tell today, she looks well ruined
cazalla: prob only because it was a joint 4corners/fairfax story
Vexual: i got in on that private guam pipe, that was a winner
Vexual: anyway, the bandwitch was already sold
punkman: are those libraries widely used?
punkman: (International Components for Unicode)
trinque: firefox on my system uses it.
Vexual: thats wildly innappropriate
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38500 @ 0.00055426 = 21.339 BTC [+]
punkman: "professional scholars of international relations" "30 percent of American researchers in the field say that they have a working knowledge of no language other than English, and more than half say that they rarely or never cite non-English sources in their work."
☟︎ assbot: Modern Art Was Used As a Torture Technique in Prison Cells During the Spanish Civil War | Open Culture ... (
http://bit.ly/1dJi6kp )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00055853 = 10.8355 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8575 @ 0.00055895 = 4.793 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 07:09:24; punkman: asciilifeform: i really fail to grasp for what, precisely, it is, that we need the possibility of falling difficulty. << remember Altcoin? do you prefer the possibility of 1 block per month?
jurov: they aren't still there only cuz mircea_popescu mediated it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4526 @ 0.00054843 = 2.4822 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2335 @ 0.00055897 = 1.3052 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23065 @ 0.00056224 = 12.9681 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29527 @ 0.00056318 = 16.629 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8295 @ 0.0005643 = 4.6809 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32924 @ 0.00056697 = 18.6669 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51300 @ 0.00054806 = 28.1155 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36340 @ 0.00055224 = 20.0684 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13202 @ 0.00054727 = 7.2251 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20797 @ 0.00056001 = 11.6465 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56166 @ 0.00054614 = 30.6745 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform uh. the one published actually encompasses the first fork. i have other chains (also historical) that aren't wedged, but i had thought yours passed that point ?
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16375 @ 0.00053429 = 8.749 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 22:18:29; TomServo: Ahoy all, just wanted to pass long: my 0.5.3 node is humming along, currently reporting blockheight 364171.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 22:34:34; pete_dushenski: "CoinbaseAdrian 30 points an hour ago* : Sorry guys, we're looking into this. It appears to be an issue with our network provider (Cloudflare). We have an urgent ticket open with them and I'll update here with any details." << response to coinbase being offline
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re the entire timing discussion : suppose the pogo gets started always with a realtime switch, -time=14blablabla, and after that gets its time from the most recent block it accepts and checks for next ones being within +-7200 seconds.
☟︎ shinohai: I am at height 361167 his morning. Agonizingly slow.
gribble: Current Blocks: 360472 | Current Difficulty: 47589591153.625 | Next Difficulty At Block: 360863 | Next Difficulty In: 391 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 weeks, 3 days, 10 hours, 22 minutes, and 2 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
shinohai: Either gribble is off or I am xD
mircea_popescu: "o hai folks i'm talking from day after tomorrow. time is moving by really really too slow!!!1"
mircea_popescu: everyone that thinks i should have smoked cheese and salmon breakfast, make your blocks v 666
mircea_popescu: everyone that thinks i should have creme fraiche and strawberries, make your blocks v 1337
shinohai: Lox and eggs for me this morning.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35150 @ 0.00053178 = 18.6921 BTC [-]
shinohai: She looks tall enough to ride this ride.
mircea_popescu: "Market forces will prevail and miners will have to adapt." loller.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19800 @ 0.00053461 = 10.5853 BTC [+] {2}
shinohai: reddit believes *they* are the market force, or so I thought.
punkman: apparently 200l+ transactions today
mircea_popescu: yeah, basically, whenever the market forces do what they expect they're all market-force-y, and when the market forces tell them to go dangle they're all democaca-y
mircea_popescu: punkman there's some derps putting in like 1mn txn for 1 btc total fees.
mircea_popescu: which has the excellent side effect of taking the piss out of all the redditard "unbanked" who were used to pay 0 fees.
shinohai: So that explains the slow tx times today
punkman: does 0.0001 still get you in next block?
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 00:09:17; decimation: unfortunately blockheight is only a solid concept in retrospect
mircea_popescu: might have been 0.00001 what they paid, i dun recall. look at the backlog should be obvious
shinohai: I thought that the 0.1% per 1 BTC transacted was reasonable, as set out in the Declaration of Sovereignty.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 00:13:06; decimation: point being, someone derives time (the iers) from astronomy, sets the cesium, and broadcasts it
punkman: "I run the restaurant from 1996, its a family business. I work here with my father and my mother. We only cook traditional Greek food. We accept Bitcoin for payments. They have come 6-8 people pay with Bitcoin from Spain, France, Italy, Ireland, Luxembourg but i hope for more people with Bitcoins"
mircea_popescu: shinohai unrelated things tho. a tx is a tx, it charges by byte.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 00:13:16; asciilifeform: unrelated: folks competing for mircea_popescu's 1 btc prize for therealbitcoin callgraph can strike 'egypt' utility off the list. it is a worthless pile of shit, which produces worthless piles of shit (at least for cpp proggy)
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 00:17:01; asciilifeform: total waste of time.
mircea_popescu: i suppose we progressed from moore law's to this noore law.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 00:23:25; asciilifeform: because i won't be running it.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 00:27:26; asciilifeform: and unable to distinguish between functions of same name in different classes
kakobrekla: greek islands are the best. i very much enjoyed them, perhaps mykonos the most. jurov would love it there, im sure.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 01:36:51; asciilifeform: so apparently they had to take the bank by storm.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 02:11:39; asciilifeform: difficulty oughta have been defined in relation to the difficulty of the last solved block, solely.
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 473 @ 0.00408605 = 1.9327 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: in that difficulty is a statistical measure and statistics of sets of one is undefined.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00053144 = 9.9379 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: for students of the bitcoin protocol actually interested in learning how it works, create a list of all block hashes, calculate implied difficulty on that basis, compare to actual difficulty at the time and calculate variance etc. nice graphs to be had.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 02:21:03; asciilifeform: the thing barely survives today, much less ww3
Adlai: mircea_popescu: too bad only the dumb&industrious students will do that. the smart&lazy just go to sipa's charts...
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 02:26:24; asciilifeform: thestringpuller: unless i seriously misunderstand, 50%+ of the hash rate belongs to folks ~who aren't even running bitcoin~ but a toystore version
mircea_popescu: then, of THOSE POOLS it turned out that ~50% are too confused to even lie.
mircea_popescu: they simply say things that bear an impredictable (to them first of all) relationship to reality.
mircea_popescu: it is the smartness of the nor merely dumb, but unrescuably so.
mircea_popescu: (yes, there's a smartness of the dumb, like there's a richness of the poor and a cleanliness of the filthy and honesty of politicians and so on and so forth.)
Adlai: eloquence of the mute
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 02:45:29; assbot: Why Ubuntu plans to replace traditional Linux packages with something better | PCWorld ... (
http://bit.ly/1HJqEnF )
Adlai: vanity address of a stressed tester
shinohai: punkman: I like it, he smokes.
kakobrekla: dunno, my txes get confirmed in first block w/o any fees. you people don't know how to curate your outputs.
assbot: Bitcoin in Argentina : exactly nothing to do with the derps on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... (
http://bit.ly/1Ha9vyF )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.0005312 = 3.4528 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 04:01:47; decimation: find predictions for the time they are to occur and compare with your clock under test
mircea_popescu: what is the difference between ntp telling you what time it is and *tp telling you what to observe ?
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 04:17:52; asciilifeform: and, in the ultimate case, the kind created by somebody who was sure that it would never be looked for.
mircea_popescu: because "people" of the pale complexion have allowed themselves to be trained in such god-awful conformity, and the space of possibilities has lain fallow for so long, to be shat into by alf's smirking plumbooker, that it's getting fucking filled.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 04:26:43; *: asciilifeform confesses that he did not know this proof, and, as a student, wasted a great deal of time trying to devise such a thing
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 04:42:30; asciilifeform: other thing is, ideally the graph would be in some logical arrangement
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 06:55:52; cazalla: well bitcoin group lost like 250k mining so the model is really just finding people to bail em out
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 07:51:18; punkman: "professional scholars of international relations" "30 percent of American researchers in the field say that they have a working knowledge of no language other than English, and more than half say that they rarely or never cite non-English sources in their work."
mircea_popescu: then stolfi wonders whether i want to be this or that title. as if a title is in any way useful or related to me.
mircea_popescu: but hey. professional scholars. all that fits in their head are names.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12251 @ 0.00053486 = 6.5526 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: the names of the places they'll never see. what exactly is the difference between an academitard and a housewife watching discovery channel i shall never know.
punkman: does US have translators that only speak English?
mircea_popescu: they both engage in making predictions, which are about as interesting and useful.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23763 @ 0.0005312 = 12.6229 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: in the end it came to exactly the same thing, not scammed anyone to anyone's knowledge, and why exactly would i put so much power in the hands of inept fiat "regulatory bodies"
punkman: it was an old article, I also posted it before I think
punkman: can't find it in the logs :(
mircea_popescu: in any case i recall f.mpif had an investment with a derivative something for a few months.
mircea_popescu: but iirc the star trader quit and the fund closed down or somesuch.
mircea_popescu: anyway, if he does the assbot thing i'm definitely going to allow selected l2 people to manage f.mpif pcs.
kakobrekla: well, not really quit, but euro decided to go to shit and specifications of fund did not go along with that
punkman: why is assbot wallet needed for mpif pcs?
punkman: mircea_popescu: well, sure.
kakobrekla: there was just one possible winning move, short and dont look.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21050 @ 0.00053486 = 11.2588 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00053307 = 12.3672 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28600 @ 0.00053591 = 15.327 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: HSBC employees sacked after staging ISIS-style mock execution during team building exercise | Descrier News ... (
http://bit.ly/1JRt96I )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22418 @ 0.0005312 = 11.9084 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42600 @ 0.00053854 = 22.9418 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34356 @ 0.0005405 = 18.5694 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60600 @ 0.0005312 = 32.1907 BTC [-]
mats: nobody can take a joke anymore
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 10:50:32; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform uh. the one published actually encompasses the first fork. i have other chains (also historical) that aren't wedged, but i had thought yours passed that point ?
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 10:58:01; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re the entire timing discussion : suppose the pogo gets started always with a realtime switch, -time=14blablabla, and after that gets its time from the most recent block it accepts and checks for next ones being within +-7200 seconds.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20200 @ 0.00053472 = 10.8013 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10050 @ 0.00054057 = 5.4327 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 11:26:51; punkman: difficulty target is a number
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52400 @ 0.00054525 = 28.5711 BTC [+] {3}
shinohai: Whelp looks like I am stuck on block 363726
punkman: asciilifeform: how do we do infinite growth on the mining side though?
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 07:09:24; punkman: asciilifeform: i really fail to grasp for what, precisely, it is, that we need the possibility of falling difficulty. << remember Altcoin? do you prefer the possibility of 1 block per month?
punkman: asciilifeform: monotonically increasing difficulty
punkman: so I use a lot of hashing power for 1 hour and then make you wait 1 month for next block?
decimation: asciilifeform: what about waiting for a few hours to observe several blocks upon pogo boot?
decimation: wouldn't they be rejected if 2 hours away?
decimation: yes, connect to a couple of remote nodes, wait for several blocks to verify (while keeping your own clock)
decimation: yes, but your sybil objection applies to all of bitcoin
decimation: how does anyeone know they aren't being fed bullshit?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31276 @ 0.00054622 = 17.0836 BTC [+]
decimation: do you trust your own clock on the pogo?
Adlai: asciilifeform: actually, it also happens to non-crackpot altcoins (if such a thing exists), and multipools need to take care not to mine them too hard and kill their own geese
decimation: precisely. pogo starts its own stopwatch, and starts watching for blocks to verify
decimation: over time, a chain is built which contains timestamps and relative timestamps from the pogo
decimation: then the pogo can average the timestamps relative to its own samples of block times
decimation: I agree but the enemy would have to know that this is a pogo vs. other bitcoin node
decimation: and the node feeding bullshit would be easily identified by a running bitcoind
decimation: why not "reject all blocks before timestamp X" for the purpose of setting clock
decimation: but apparently setting it with a sextant is also a terrible idea?
decimation: right, so push button plus astronomer in your wot
decimation: the only 'fix' in that case is a separate box that serves time, under your own control
thestringpuller: i vote asciilifeform since he doesn't like leaving the house
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00054868 = 9.7116 BTC [+]
jurov: so, to summarize. 1. time can't come from net because net ==== usg. 2. time can't come from any additional hw cuz cost
jurov: the objections can be extended to any other protocol
punkman: I don't see local time in there
jurov: why going to such contortions with time before the rest of proto is secured?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37250 @ 0.00055025 = 20.4968 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: and when there's whispernet, it can do time, too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28573 @ 0.00055872 = 15.9643 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: oh i forgot to add to summary 3. no maintenance
jurov: if they're going to ddos known pogo addresses then this has no solution
☟︎ jurov: and how'd pogos masquerade? scanning and identifying btc nodes is easy
jurov: if it's 5000 residential lines, then it's easy
jurov: the civilians or their isps will stopp cooperate very quickly
jurov: so, ntp is the least worry atm
jurov: btw, just today i got an offer for "small business" connection, it included ToS
jurov: guess what did it say? listed allowed server services
punkman: asciilifeform: don't even need mitm, dozens of DoS vectors in there
jurov: and "must not disturb other users"
punkman: reading the code is quite discouraging
jurov: and where are these mythincal civilian nonresidential lines pogo is supposed to be on?
jurov: lol, having your employer ddoes, yet better!
jurov: so, stfu about ddosing then
shinohai: I just pay for business class internet so no one bothers me about my activities
jurov: but ntp flood is ocean of shit
jurov: ah, so you suppose someone has ntp 0day in store for us
jurov: as opposed to "simple as possible, but no simpler"?
jurov: ntp is simple enough in this situation
thestringpuller: my internet is drained right now relaying blocks, I had to shut my node off
thestringpuller: so i can stream music from my library. these people don't know what they're talking about.
jurov: heh. if you had a pogo, you'd just yank it from power
jurov: i don't see where to find 5000 ppl that would tolerate such bw hog
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38900 @ 0.00056188 = 21.8571 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: jurov: if i had a pogo i would connect it to the neighbors unsecured wifi XD
punkman: from 0.5.3 source "/// when NTP implemented, change to just nTime = GetAdjustedTime()"
jurov: thestringpuller wih $10 wifi nic you can route bitcoind there right now, no?
decimation: I don't get it, why do we need to run the ntp daemon to use ntp?
decimation: just use ntpdate to set the clock once and be done
decimation: 'civilian' chumper's electricity is probably not more reliable than that anyway
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40400 @ 0.00055182 = 22.2935 BTC [-]
decimation: and the 'attack surface' consists of a few packets asking for the time
thestringpuller: jurov: yea and assuming the neighbor's wifi is setup to allow incoming connections to 8333
thestringpuller: but the main issue is that my upstream limitations are greater restricted than downstream, so when I relay blocks and tx data esp. when mempool is getting big, it chokes me from doing anything remote (like ssh is even slow)
jurov: if you had sane router like dd-wrt or mikrotik
jurov: you could set ougoing traffic shaper
punkman: I can barely do 20-30kbps up without router getting constipated, at least when seeding torrents
thestringpuller: punkman: jurov i can do up to 600kbps on torrents without seeing constipation
jurov: the idea is, if you limit the uplink yourself before isp does, you can set priority for misc traffic
thestringpuller: yea. torrent clients (rtorrent) let you limit from within the client
jurov: because bitcoind does not know how to limit itself
jurov: in companies where i did sysadmin, outgoing email was prone to slow everything to crawl with ADSL, and obv setting limits on everyone's email clients was impractical
jurov: after shaping and setting priorities all went fine
jurov: haha yes. but most of the time it just throttled it from gobbling full 768k down to 600k, not very noticeable
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82100 @ 0.00055428 = 45.5064 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00054838 = 3.6741 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: "The real problem: a simplistic, unworkable, and ultimately stifling conception of social justice" << sounds about right.
lobbes: "So it's not just that students refuse to countenance uncomfortable ideas — they refuse to engage them, period. Engagement is considered unnecessary, as the immediate, emotional reactions of students contain all the analysis and judgment that sensitive issues demand." << ayup
pete_dushenski: "All the old, enlightened means of discussion and analysis —from due process to scientific method — are dismissed as being blind to emotional concerns and therefore unfairly skewed toward the interest of straight white males" << moar gold.
punkman: "I have intentionally adjusted my teaching materials as the political winds have shifted." "While I used to pride myself on getting students to question themselves and engage with difficult concepts and texts, I now hesitate. What if this hurts my evaluations and I don't get tenure?"
punkman: yeah what if you don't get tenure
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7856 @ 0.00056463 = 4.4357 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34700 @ 0.00056659 = 19.6607 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: punkman | does 0.0001 still get you in next block? << this is what deedbot- pays
trinque: asciilifeform: I got clang to fart out a graphviz dot file; so far, every tool that can eat the thing results in a horrid ball of yarn
trinque: noticed that many of the tools there are more or less the same java program
trinque: I'm not even going to share the result; just take a pen and go nuts on a piece of paper and you'll have it
ascii_field: trinque: the 'dot' file, does it contain something like a logical flow graph ?
trinque: yeah it's a directed graph; however, clang also barfed lots of unnamed nodes
trinque: I cannot see how this tool does not exist
trinque: except that C++ itself foils any attempt
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 04:08:54; asciilifeform: mats: what is interesting about it ?
shinohai: Hmm missed that. Interesting concept
trinque: ascii_field: did you see the awesome glsa on icu yesterday?
trinque: notable packages linked against icu on my box include.... firefox
jurov: trinque deedbot now has only enough for 27 blocks?
trinque: jurov: enough of a balance?
trinque: there are a few other unspent outputs
trinque: it will switch to the next
trinque: and if it gets low, feel free to throw some bitdust in the tank
trinque: should be good for a while though
trinque: now that the de-dockerization is complete, I may have it announce its current balance along with newly uploaded deeds
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22700 @ 0.00056737 = 12.8793 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: trinque: and guess what, rebuilding all the deps of that thing would take a month+ on my box
ascii_field: and that's ~after~ resolving the circular dependencies
trinque: I will never mock stallman emailing himself static html ever again.
trinque: I've half considered trying to stop using the web so much, aside from maybe syncing certain sites to a local box.
trinque: it's clearly *all* irreparably fucked.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7400 @ 0.00056658 = 4.1927 BTC [-]
ascii_field: .... and how much shitgnomism is rolled into the 'updated' version of 10,001 proggies that will install.
trinque: nowhere clearer than the recent 1m+ lines-changed linux release
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58600 @ 0.00056872 = 33.327 BTC [+] {3}
ascii_field: at this point, any unixlike box with a graphical display may as well be running winblowz
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16600 @ 0.00056891 = 9.4439 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: everyone who ever made fun of rms deserves to be fed a litre of 'toe jam' now.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i know i'm fed up with random shit depending on random shit, but it's not mere stupidity. it's just them trying to make sure shit permeates everywhere.
mircea_popescu: oh, openssl put out a bug ? best make sure the fucking calculator pulls it in.
assbot: Drone fires burgers at the homeless in charity viral video gone wrong - Americas - World - The Independent ... (
http://bit.ly/1HdQJcW )
mircea_popescu: so, when you start the pogo, you provide it with the human touch, divine spark, politica time.
mircea_popescu: this, you have to do. like it or not we dunno how to abstract it away.
mircea_popescu: from there on, iut carries on by simply syncing its clock to last accepted block.
ascii_field: howabout at 4am on a sunday when the mains flickers ?
mircea_popescu: you take it down and start it over with new magic touch
ascii_field: congrats, now pogo behaves like the clock on my stove
ascii_field: whole point was 'here let me fuck you and plug this box into your router'
mircea_popescu: it is held together by the superficial tension of frog entails.
mircea_popescu: nevertyheless, that is a marked improvement over the current situation
ascii_field: i am not sure how this improves on anything
mircea_popescu: held together by the superficial tension of hemorhagic diarhea
danielpbarron: isn't there supposed to be a way to send commands to the pogo? otherwise how is it useful to me as a "full node" if I can't query it for blocks/transactions and relay new ones I have created for it?
ascii_field: with the scheme described, you don't even need an attack
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22200 @ 0.00055975 = 12.4265 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: the idea, as i understood it, was to let folks set up nodes without human committment
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: yes, though i've forgotten the exact number. 500MHz i think it was.
ascii_field: but keeps perfect interrupt-based clock when running
ascii_field: this doesn't need any magic, it works on trad kernel
mircea_popescu: and you don't like having to start it by manual command because myeah.
ascii_field: because these are to be given to folks who will not volunteer any meat commitment
mircea_popescu: and setting the time to "timestamp of the last block it actually has on disk" is going to what ?
ascii_field: for one thing, there may not be any blocks on disk
ascii_field: for another, it could be days, weeks, months old
mircea_popescu: but the next block it gets wouldn't be more than two hours off.
ascii_field: and if something on disk, then perhaps it is 2009
ascii_field: and any incoming block is invalid, because 'from the future'
mircea_popescu: the next block to wahtever it has on disk is not going to be too much from the future.
ascii_field: according to the traditional bitcoin protocol.
mircea_popescu: again : if you have block x, from a year ago, when you get block x+1, the styamp on block x+1 will be, 1year ago + 10 minutes
ascii_field: realize, time is specified as an invariant
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if we lack a clock, we are wide open to replay attack
ascii_field: because the box has no idea what year it actually is
ascii_field: even if you weasel out of this one by hardcoding block hashes, etc
ascii_field: you are still open to crafted, induced clock drift
ascii_field: fine, example. malicious miner starts crapping out blocks with timestamp more and more off in the future
ascii_field: little by little, 5000 pogos slide with it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4454 @ 0.0005699 = 2.5383 BTC [+]
ascii_field: where pogo fleet is now own parallel universe
mircea_popescu: this is a horribru example. so, miner has 10% of the hash, 10% of the bnlocks are badly timed. what of it, pogo resets on the remainder.
mircea_popescu: because you mined block 5, with a bad time, someone else mines 6 with a right time, pogo is now on block 6.
ascii_field: all it sees is 'block was broadcast, has timestamp t, average it now'
ascii_field: there is no 'bad time', normally there is 2hrs of 'play' in the gears
ascii_field: all the malicious miner needs to do is keep nudging withing the allowed bounds
ascii_field: let's suppose a powered-up pogo sets clock using first block it sees
mircea_popescu: suppose it's not empty. so, pogo thinks time = last block on disk
mircea_popescu: once it accepts a further block, it resets its clock too.
jurov: because you mined block 5, with a bad time, someone else mines 6 << and it will get dropped because pogo considers delta from 5 invalid
mircea_popescu: now, this theoretically is vulnerable. but practically, can you construct the attack for me ?
mircea_popescu: jurov 5 couldn't have been that far off and be accepted from 4.
ascii_field: next block is from hitler. it has timestamp of... yesterday.
ascii_field: then genuine block appears. it now appears to be 'from the future'
mircea_popescu: because when hitler block shows up, the disk has a block it ends with
mircea_popescu: doesn't matter how old that block is. the block coming after it will be ~10 minutes later.
ascii_field: in order for it to be rejected. the chain on disk will have to be no more than a day behind
ascii_field: on what basis is hitler's block rejected ?
mircea_popescu: so, pogo has on disk last block 5, bvlock timestamp 1000
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i can see where you're going. but it still can be sunk
mircea_popescu: to answer your q : hitler's block is rejected on the basis that it's too far off from the last block pogo accepted.
ascii_field: hitler uses his week while your node was in the crate to re-mine the blocks from the last place you have on disk, with minimal plausible monotonically stepping time deltas
ascii_field: you are now four hours, say, behind the actual earth time
mircea_popescu: yes. the only way this attack would work is with a major chain replacement investment.
mircea_popescu: in a year he has to replace a million btc worth of blocks.
mircea_popescu: natural drift is a problem, yes, but you reset on each block.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 15:02:31; asciilifeform: i will leave this with one more analogy: why did marching armies use drummers, instead of having each man push the next fellow, like in a crowded train ?
mircea_popescu: it is a form of dead reckoning, yes. so bad in principle.
ascii_field: so now miners get to move pogo clocks around collectively.
mircea_popescu: ie, exactly like drummers (if you think about it, drummers are EXACTLY each guy pushing the other, sound has a speed, and it pushes ears)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the speed of the sound of the drum is negligible in comparison to the speed at which push wave propagates through a crowd
ascii_field: unless the crowd is in a gasenwagen and behaves like a solid
mircea_popescu: just pointing out that drums were good enough for marching and not good enough for precision bomb strike
jurov: how is the timing attack different from normal orphans?
ascii_field: jurov: mainly in that it affects pogos and nobody else
jurov: pogo will eventually reorganize, and reset the time back to where the for started
mircea_popescu: ascii_field anyway, mind that pogos are not intended to be THE ONLY solution to relaying. they are just supposed to be a type of solution.
mircea_popescu: so yes, the rifle regiment wouldn't survive cavalry charge from the side. alrighty then, put them on a hillltop.
ascii_field: thing is, i can easily see these becoming 99% of the relay mass
mircea_popescu: it's not that i don't appreciate your intellectual purity. it's merely that things must be made as correct as possible and no correcter than that.
ascii_field: this terrible kludge would probably go well with jurov's
mircea_popescu: the only correct solution to the problems of humanity is killing all the people.
mircea_popescu: anyway, not that i'm saying this must be done or anything. but i do not think it'd be the end of the world if it has to be.
ascii_field: so far there appear to be just these two solutions
ascii_field: no one else has proposed anything like a third
mircea_popescu: yes, but you didn't care much for it. usb timer dongle thinger
ascii_field: (anything requiring the pogo keeper to have hands and brain is not a solution)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: may as well ship a pc then!
mircea_popescu: it is not your fault, or mine, or his, that "the time" does not come engraved in the wave fucntion you know.
ascii_field: that this was a constraint, i warned from day 1
ascii_field: and i still think that dependence on political time is a serious flaw in bitcoin proper
jurov: also there is my doubt of finding 5000 or how many ppl that won't mind pogo trampling upon their connection and likely inviting attacks
mircea_popescu: ok, how about this alternative : put a special time server on the pogo itself, have the pogo sync its time from the list of approved upstream sources.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: you realize that is exactly how the ntp nodes with which we're ddosed work
mircea_popescu: yes i realise. but at least these are our evil nodes rather than obama's evil nodes.
ascii_field: so now we're asking for a non-retarded complete reimplementation of ntp.
mircea_popescu: anyway. the problem of time (as you rightly observe) is a larger problem than anything bitcoin solves
mircea_popescu: didja miss the line where i said you can't have a statistical sample of one ?
mircea_popescu: there is no way to distinguish between a block mined at difficulty x that came out with 9 leading zeroes and a block mined at difficulty 1 that came out randomly with that many zeroes.
ascii_field: say, anyone who can hash faster than strictly required to win the race, ends up pushing the target towards hardness
mircea_popescu: this dies, because you will find a random block which is 00000000000000000000000000000f and game over.
ascii_field: for so long as the 'lucky strikes' can't nudge too far
ascii_field: it is rather reminiscent of 'there is nonzero chance for you to fall through the floor'
mircea_popescu: the chance to die approaches infinity much before you even get a third halving
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19998 @ 0.0005699 = 11.3969 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: you're basically proposing we do a "your rent is a tenth of your income or more, forever. and you play the lottery daily."
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: you've described... farming!
mircea_popescu: moreover, this retarded version of farming is more like, "Farming done by bacteria colony. doubles every time there's food."
ascii_field: the 'double' thing is negotiable, potentially
ascii_field: recall, we are thinking of all possible formulations
mircea_popescu: not so negotiable. anyway, you DO need the sampling, and that fucks it all up
mircea_popescu: do not let me stand in between you and greatness. but until the day you shit out that magic, it's no magic time.
ascii_field: not that i seriously disagree with mircea_popescu's intuition, but it is not obviously clear to me that we're speaking of a perpetuum mobile
ascii_field: perhaps i will need more ice cream to work through this one
ascii_field: i agree, this is very much a 'go, find' rather than 'sure to be found'
mircea_popescu: back at sad farm, there's really little we can do with the bitcoin as it is, other than acquiesce to the filth of human notions of time.
ascii_field: incidentally, the answer, if it exists to be found, probably involves what fuller might've labeled 'tensegrity'
mircea_popescu: i am maybe not the first but definitely not the last to admit when satoshi did the dumb. nevertheless, here he did no such thing. there is no alternative known to literature, and you can't fault a man for not coming up with a novel star.
ascii_field: where there is a 'tug of war' among top contenders for pulling difficulty up
mircea_popescu: because it is game theoretically advantageous to have a central scheduler.
ascii_field: gotta have the prisoner's dilemma come out against it
mircea_popescu: not that bitcoin doesn't centralize, a little. but this is criminal.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30009 @ 0.00057011 = 17.1084 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: not sure that can be arranged. prolly can be made to appear it was arranged, but...
ascii_field: could one design a system where fucking the lizards is always +ev ?
mircea_popescu: depends how you define it, but there's also the problem of "you're the lizard, bob."
mircea_popescu: you know, when the holy paladin marches into the forest to kill the unseen devils that have been upsetting the natural order of the land
mircea_popescu: oinly to discover that indeed such devils do exist. him.
ascii_field: methinks we're at the point here where one could actually build a mathematical thing
ascii_field: another suggestion: vectorize the difficulty
ascii_field: (presently, it is a scalar; but doesn't have to be)
mircea_popescu: you are aware of the complexity that introduces in say an attempt at mathematical provability re the entire shenanigan ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: actually it may very well be formalizable game-theoretically
mircea_popescu: anyway, took down (as folklore) by one alexandru donici in the 1800s
mircea_popescu: you know the recourse to complexity is an academic habit.
ascii_field: what we have now - ~that~ is complexity. just unexamined kind.
ascii_field: when you ~actually~ (vs. academitard-pretend) nail something down - that is a reduction in complexity.
mircea_popescu: but you've not nailed something down. you just hope saint hilbert may.
mircea_popescu: all sorts of possibilities are here, provided you don't go into geographical details
ascii_field: yes, possibly i triggered somebody's allergy by mentioning a maths dude
mircea_popescu: no, we're friends with hilbert, and i don't think it's a bad idea, either.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19200 @ 0.00057071 = 10.9576 BTC [+]
punkman: mircea_popescu: this dies, because you will find a random block which is 00000000000000000000000000000f and game over. << this is incorrect. you don't infer the target from the hash. 256bit target is included in all block headers.
ascii_field: punkman: we were contemplating a hypothetical clockless blockchain
ascii_field: where miners slowly make life harder for themselves
punkman: you could very easily have monotonically increasing target
mircea_popescu: basically he could be in government : he's decided to externalise the cost he can't bore
ascii_field: punkman: no good, as pointed out earlier, because finite planet
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25708 @ 0.00055537 = 14.2775 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: right now we have usg clock!
punkman: ascii_field: well yeah that was my objection, need to be able to adjust downward
ascii_field feels like he took that potion from lem's 'futurological congress', which makes one realize that he had no robot servants, just leprous wretches dressed in gabage cans clanking around as 'robots'
ascii_field: and they aren't sweeping the house, but shitting on the carpet
jurov: actually, we have an usg internet, too
mircea_popescu: the only new thing in the world is the history you didn't know, and the only thing that's worse than what we have today
decimation: I didn't realize that usg owns time now too
ascii_field: jurov: it is at least theoretically possible to build a non-usg network
decimation: can't someone in china look at the sky?
ascii_field: but the mystery of building a non-usg and non-usg-pushable political clock remains, afaik, a mystery
decimation: don't need cesium to keep time to 2hr window
mircea_popescu: think of time as capital, and think you're that anon president that opposed hamilton
mircea_popescu: and think "hey, my clock can keep time within two hours, how would those newfangled financial traders and hedge funds render me destitute on the cointinent my fathers conquered ?!?!?!"
jurov: gotta revert to julian calendar?
mircea_popescu: unless you discover a more precise clock, and keep it from the enemy, such that you can exploit his misclicks and take his women
decimation: well, if you only used the sun and the rotation of the earth, you would be ~60 seconds of utc (starting around 1960)
ascii_field: ^ state of the art for p2p ~ordering of events~ - rather than absolute time
decimation: are we worrying about relativistic bitcoin?
punkman: blockchain doesn't order events based on time
☟︎ ascii_field: mircea_popescu: almost all timekeeping is really for ordering!
jurov: why? in hft order doesn't matter?
mircea_popescu: punkman it actually DOES order events to some degree based on time.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 19:14:54; punkman: blockchain doesn't order events based on time
mircea_popescu: jurov the way you use the cow's teat is not the alpha and omega of what the cow teat is.
ascii_field: lamport's achievement was to abstract out some of the attributes of timekeeping we actually ~need~
punkman: I don't see how lamport clock would help
ascii_field: not that virtually no one ~actually cares how many seconds it's been since midnight jan 1 1969~
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69700 @ 0.00057153 = 39.8356 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: ascii_field they don't care now in the manner they don't care about how well oiled their rifle is.
mircea_popescu: like the housewives, you know, "oph, i don;t care about the crisis, my husband does all that money stuff" "orly ? shut up and sit down, goose."
ascii_field: evidently i failed to make the minor point here
BingoBoingo: <ascii_field> so now we're asking for a non-retarded complete reimplementation of ntp. << reimplemented, can't guarentee not retarded in its own way
ascii_field: the 1969 thing is an arbitrary aspect of the mechanism
decimation: ascii_field: you seem to imply that you need to run ntp daemon to use ntp
ascii_field: decimation: it is well known that you don't
ascii_field: and how do you know the answer did not come from satanic isp ?
decimation: well, there is such a thing as signed ntp
decimation: I'm not sure how simple it would be to implement
mircea_popescu: you know how satoshi would have solved this problem, rigth ?
decimation: don't need to only rely on the ntp reply
decimation: it can be hyptothetical until blocks start rolling in
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15195 @ 0.00057196 = 8.6909 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: hitler cannot change the clock on the pogo
decimation: pogo can record times he observes new blocks since boot
ascii_field: he can if it treats his signet as ultimate authority
decimation: doesn't need to, treats as man on the street
mircea_popescu: in other news i am pleased to inform the general public that my pyromania is progressing nicely.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33605 @ 0.00057273 = 19.2466 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: there is no widespread custom of isp running a time server
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00055558 = 6.9448 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: last i looked into it my isp actually fed you time, on special port.
ascii_field: ntp is low-enough traffic that most of the planet asks usg more or less directly
ascii_field: and comically, without authentication of any kind
ascii_field: anyone recall old thread about banks getting time from gps antennae ?
decimation: mircea_popescu: all of those could be forged by hitler
ascii_field: don't even need hitler there. just a kid with an sdr card
ascii_field: someone, iirc, discovered that you could move the clock on most 'atm' machines this way
decimation: nobody has told me why I can't observe the position of the sun in the sky, use today's date, and reduce the time
ascii_field: decimation: you can do this, and sign the result with your gossipd key, etc. sure
mircea_popescu: decimation what i said was that if you use usg-supplied cutouts for that reduction, you're just doing a roundabout ntp call. might as well ask directly
ascii_field: and if it did, hitler could simply delay the packet
ascii_field: mitm can make the answer 1) verify sig correctly 2) be arbitrarily wrong
mircea_popescu: i do not dispute they exist. what i said, again, was that if you use a nist table you're basically querying ntp.
decimation: well, yes, but the math is not very difficult to verify
ascii_field: realize that earth time is a political fiction
decimation: a political fiction that for the time being is tied to observable astronomic phenomenon
ascii_field: decimation measures the time, by observing a pulsar
ascii_field: (one of the most accurate timebases found in nature)
mircea_popescu: there's no "truthful" means to breach a convention by getting the REAL reality of it. just like you can't deduce a girl out of her panties.
ascii_field: but now he wants to ~tell mircea_popescu the time~
ascii_field: i.e. how many counts since last time mircea_popescu asked
ascii_field: trying to illustrate the notion of 'political time' here
decimation: I can tell him that a mutually observable passing of mercury in front of a star will be at 6pm
mircea_popescu: he has a point, he ~can~ sync like that, but only provided he actually did the measurements as to which star himself.
decimation: use hitler's time until it can be verified
ascii_field: whole problem with bitcoin is that hitler can induce permanent damage by playing with the clock on rare occasions and in localized ways
ascii_field: then hitler knows exactly when to fuck with ntp!
decimation: and then ditch hitler's time once you have synced with block chain and can use its timestamps
ascii_field: as mircea_popescu points out, 'once' is a many-time thing here
ascii_field: decimation: i discussed the problem with letting blockchain affect the time, earlier
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you still don't like my, "-time=blabla" in start-up call ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it is inapplicable for pogo
jurov: i propose to wire electrodes up on the pogo chassis and synchronize time using chosen woman's periods
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 14:50:38; asciilifeform: drift by more than 2h and you're not only fucked, but will mislead others
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: we were discussion a variant where nodes ask one another
ascii_field: but yes, if using block timestamps, pogos can only be mislead, cannot mislead others (unless some fool were to mine via 'getwork'-ing a pogo!)
trinque was born just after everything cool was discontinued
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 15:10:23; jurov: if they're going to ddos known pogo addresses then this has no solution
ascii_field: trinque: not only discontinued, but costs like 4+ pogos !!!
mircea_popescu: i don't feel too good about asking people who trust me to put a box on the net that's open to flooding people.
trinque: the cost is not prohibitive
trinque: spend more on a heavy night drinking
ascii_field: trinque: please understand, for this cost you can ship a pc!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00056712 = 3.1759 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i was entertaining delusions of pogos being used as net propo for small home miners.
trinque: sure but then no sweet usb radio clock
ascii_field: trinque: the entire point is to use THE $20 BOX WE HAVE
ascii_field: without turning it into a shittier version of the $150 box phoundation et al have
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 15:12:23; asciilifeform: who, precisely, can ddos (in the traditional sense) 5,000 ip ?
ascii_field: the 100 usd 'pc engines' board i mentioned a few weeks ago does.
jurov: i did not mean for pogo to promiscuously accept or even emit ntp packets!
mircea_popescu: what, you think 1k is a barrier ? 1mn is a barriere. maybe. 1k is not a barrier.
ascii_field: did not say 'barrier', necessarily, but it does raise the number of bots required
decimation: I guess I percieve the reliance on an ntp server for time as being a much smaller attack surface than relying on operating bitcoind nodes for sync
mircea_popescu: jurov i think there is at least one attack where lamer is made to think victim is ntp server
jurov: yes but that does not depend on victim
ascii_field: the basic, irrecoverable problem with ntp is that one can 'amplify'
ascii_field: and get more bits back (to victim, that is) than you had to send.
jurov: you mean , pogo issues ntp requests, get million packets within seconds?
mircea_popescu: jurov i mean, pogo asks for ntp time, malicious server sayus "ask a.b.c.d" pogo asks.
ascii_field: jurov: worse. it'll be among those ~sending~ the replies
ascii_field: decimation: and when new bug is discovered? then?
decimation: and once again, you are talking about the daemon
mircea_popescu: i;m not a great fan either ; nevertheless i suspect it is a marginally better solution than the current best which is "just taker block".
ascii_field: decimation: the variant where it asks on powerup is also retarded
jurov: just a ting that issues one packet, receives one and shuts itself
mircea_popescu: for one thing : it costs us 20k to deploy 1k of these. i doubt hitler wants to ruin his ntp for 20k
decimation: mircea_popescu: not to mention also ruin $1000000k commerce in the process
ascii_field: ntp from random selection among 1,000 ip (not dns, but ip) ntp nodes, PLUS sanity check using blockchain, could be a practical answer.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 15:22:37; asciilifeform: and work without invoking dns
mircea_popescu: you can't have ntp without windows solitaire, what world do you live on
decimation: all you are doing is asking some shlub for the time
decimation: ask 10 randomly, and if they all give nonsense then you are fucked
decimation: might as well buy a telescope and start with your navigation tables
ascii_field: decimation: the idea is that they will all agree, because you're actually taking to room 101 at your isp
decimation: well, it's a separate question about signed ntp requests
decimation: now hitler must pwn random boxes unknown to him beforehand
ascii_field: the only folks willing to sign ntp (for a fee!) is us navy
ascii_field: decimation: he does not need to pwn random boxes! only intercept ntp on your line.
jurov: if that, you will actually talk to one bitcoind at isp, too
ascii_field: jurov: this is harder because proof-of-wortk
ascii_field: a faux blockchain is considerably more of an undertaking to arrange
decimation: not if it controls everything, can make up bullshit chain with 0 difficult
ascii_field: decimation: is it not obvious that this is far easier to detect via mechanical means ?
jurov: it's certainly more attractive to isp than mucking with ntp
mircea_popescu: so ntp is actually emerging towards consensus here ? over alf's dead body /
ascii_field: hell, folks in here were ringing the alarm on account of empty blocks
mod6: yeah. haven't been able to follow for the last 45 minutes though.
ascii_field: realize, i don't have a better solution than ntp. but it has to be done sanely (no dns; builds under musl or uclibc; doesn't introduce more than a few dozen lines of code; and picks from $bigint ip on powerup; and sanity-checked from blockchain )
jurov: parsing ntp reply doesn't need lots of code
trinque mutters about there being low-frequency radio time signals passing through his body this moment, and cannot find a single distributor for a sane, cheap usb receiver
trinque: the fucking world we live in
ascii_field: trinque: gps has timebase. but any moron can fool it
decimation: came to the conclusion that must do self
decimation: ru, us, others alll broadcast multiple signals
ascii_field: decimation: yes, and the kid across the street has the strongest signal
mod6: as dumb as it sounds, i thought about ICMP 13 (dispite it being often fw'd) and checking TS against default route.
mod6: it returns a timestamp
ascii_field: not all isp will even let through icmp, no ?
decimation: nobody runs standard unix services anymore
mod6: but... if it's behind a NAT< then you can control the default route
ascii_field: seems like a sure way to end up with wild numbers
mod6: maybe you set your router to respond to this? i dunno. was a passing thought.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 16:20:56; mats: loled
ascii_field: mod6: anything that requires the operator to even know that routers exist is inapplicable for pogo
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 i think this is related to "askl your isp" << yeah.
ascii_field: may as well ask him (her!) to set up a gentoo
mircea_popescu: o wait, that was a DIFFERENT liberal professor bitching abotu the hell of their own making
mod6: <+ascii_field> mod6: anything that requires the operator to even know that routers exist is inapplicable for pogo << yeah was reading what you guys were saying. basically why I didn't bring it up. too hard for mom & pop.
ascii_field: and will fail to be externally reachable at all a good chunk of the time
decimation: 'this system where we take turns accusing each other of being an enemy of the revolution can come around to bite me!'
shinohai: @ mircea_popescu I *think* I sent an email correctly in order to purchase some trilema credits
mircea_popescu: decimation that's ok, we have a good sense of humour about it.
shinohai: Was waiting on a reply email. I filled out form but was unsure if it was accepted.
mircea_popescu: (why would you, there's no indication it's your email)
ascii_field: 'when the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs' (tm) (r)
shinohai: I misunderstand then. I thought an address for deposit is emailed to you.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.16325969 = 1.6326 BTC [-]
jurov: folks. "hackedteam" leak is 99% downloaded, but i don't really have a place to publicly host it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47151 @ 0.00056758 = 26.762 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: if i'm to put it on s3, only private
ascii_field: not a bad test of how 'bulletproof' mircea_popescu's new fleet of boxes is ?
mircea_popescu: shinohai well yeah, you put your email in there, get an email with address. didja ?
ascii_field: not everybody wants the whole ball of shit
mircea_popescu: please DO untar it either first or there before publishing
jurov: it comes untarred, i mean
mircea_popescu: jurov let me know when it's uploaded so i can mirror it.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: where was your article with the boy, gurl, two frag grenades, and a length of twine ?
ascii_field: the vectorized difficulty thing made me recall it
shinohai: I love sdf.org, but damn their mail server is so slow.
jurov: just check there's 400G free and 190k inodes
mod6: I'm currently a bit distracted. I'll re-read all of this discussion on my way back and think about it.
assbot: I took a loan at 25% on prosper and put it on ltc - panic attack from the price going down : litecoin ... (
http://bit.ly/1IHx47D )
jurov: mircea_popescu: you need to do sth with the inodes
jurov: oh, it has 58M inodes? okay then
mircea_popescu: are you providing a "mp satisfaction guarantee" with it ?
jurov: well, you pay after
jurov: maybe i'll catch aneurysm from that cpp turd first
jurov: yes. you don't read trilema?
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i don't want you to be doingm it, you do useful things with your time
ascii_field: though i'll probably end up with the bounty for the callgraph
ascii_field: because no one seems to be giving a flying fuck
jurov: and btw, there's 0.5BTC bounty for eulora on mac.
trinque: ascii_field: I spent a good part of last evening working on it
jurov: be quick before it gets on my nerves and i'll get some apple machine
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i think a few people are trying, but yes, as trinque says
mircea_popescu: nobody realises they live in a house of shit until they try to go out the door
shinohai > mfw there is no cloud, only someone else's computer ...
ascii_field: the chart needs to account for literally 100% of the src lines
ascii_field: and, conversely, contain nothing extraneous
mircea_popescu: careful shinohai next you'll buy into the cult koolaid that milk doesn't come from supermarket
shinohai: Then I'll have to buy a cow. Or marry one.
shinohai: I'm close to the state of Alabama, shouldn't be hard.
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: surprised it took so long for the shitgang to start rolling out obfuscatory smoke ?
ascii_field: 'it wasn't us, because we're the core devs, and ergo it wasn't us, fuck you'
jurov: mircea_popescu: owait, the task includes copy/paste from/to eulora?
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Well, gavin stopped. I guess now they roll on to the next one.
BingoBoingo: Obviously something went wrong, but blaming the process, or Bitcoin Core's implementation is disingenious. Neither was this caused by wide use of old software, because old software would simply keep producing v2 blocks, so the change would never have triggered." << Ergo these new multi-block forks aren't happening
ascii_field: can crap out four paragraphs of acceptable english, adding up to nothing at all
mircea_popescu: jurov how am i going to speak here if i can't paste the assbot text ?
mircea_popescu: because why sign things when you're "in crypto". he's an expert at counting fucking goats
ascii_field has taken to pronouncing 'goat', 'voat', with accent on syllables, as in 'coax' cabl
trinque: blockchain wont load on this end
trinque: "Warning! this transaction is a double spend. You should be extremely careful when trusting any transactions to/from this sender."
ascii_field: ^ adding the missing rtc crystal & power source to 'dockstart', machine using same chipset as pogo
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin main net block size to increase in 2015 :: 3.84 B (13%) on Yes, 25.68 B (87%) on No | closing in 4 months 1 week| weight: 41`573 (100`000 to 1) ... (
http://bit.ly/1flrrAF )
ascii_field: complete schematics and pedantically agonizing docs
ascii_field is quite certain he saw the whole thing somewhere !
danielpbarron: pete_dushenski, guy paid 0 fees to make that thing
trinque: or was that not what the "stress testers" were trying to demonstrate
danielpbarron: the outputs must be old enough to not set off spam filters or whatever
danielpbarron: i like how the block-filling transaction cost nothing, meanwhile redditards are flipping out that they would have to pay 0.0002 if they actually had bitcoin to spend
trinque: danielpbarron: my point exactly; bitcoin's own fee mechanism defends against this bullshit
trinque: if someone really wants to "spam" let him pay the fees sufficient to do so, and he can keep that up for as many blocks as he likes, bidding against every other person who wants in the block
trinque: I have no idea what they think the 'stress test' is meant to demonstrate
☟︎ trinque: 'cept that when the best platform for capitalism ever devised appears, fucktards still think markets wont work within it
ascii_field: trinque: it is abundantly clear what they are trying to do
BingoBoingo: stress test demonstrates 1MB is plenty big to allow for periodic spam attacks, and bigger blocks would make bloat attacks still cheaper
ascii_field: it being, price themselves out of tx, and then clamour for 'deeeeemooocracy'
trinque: yet I can still get transactions through just fine
ascii_field: it also has the purpose of trying to thin the node herd
trinque: sort mempool by fee and fuck the poor?
ascii_field: i still can't fathom why this wasn't sop from day 1.
☟︎ pete_dushenski: ascii_field took time for the drones to be lined up, meetings to be had, coffee to be drunk, etc.
danielpbarron: i have not noticed the "network test" except that my actual full nodes sometimes differ by (sometimes rarely) as much as a few dozen blocks before eventually settling in on the true height. My transaction sending has been uneffected.
flabkebab: So I've been having a go at the callgraph thing
trinque: looks better than my rat-king
ascii_field: that still doesn't look like ~all~ the unique symbols in the tree
ascii_field: my patience for 'help the mouse find the cheese' ran out when i was four
☟︎ trinque: ascii_field: it's gonna take something where you can grab a node and have it trace only that one
trinque: I was using "gephi" for this
trinque: I mean an interface to the dot
trinque: yeah well the call graph itself is tangled
trinque: can probably not be untangled in 2d
flabkebab_: I also tried something less... ball-yarny
flabkebab_: Edges too close together and was also unreadbale
trinque: gephi will shake the graph out for ya with various plugins
trinque: can change attraction params on a node, so on
ascii_field: all related objects must be near one another
jurov: mircea_popescu: is the ftp server in the vicinity of your bitcoin node? it went full speed for minutes, then it suddenly throttled to 6kbps
☟︎ jurov: and it's going up again
flabkebab_: ascii_field: as in, same file, or as in same cluster of linked nodes?
ascii_field: trinque: technically, packets are diddled in room 641a. room 101 is where they put rats in your face
ascii_field: look at your picture. would you, personally, get any use out of this ?
ascii_field: if the answer is no - what makes you think ~i~ could
trinque: I wrote a thing that did a force directed graph for an ebnf once
trinque: but the ebnf I was modeling wasn't convoluted inward on itself this haphazardly
trinque: that code is way simpler, or missing nodes
trinque: lemme see if I can screenshot gephi before my laptop dies
ascii_field: the graph flabkebab_ showed does not even attempt to place symbols ~anywhere near~ even one of their links !!
ascii_field: they are just dropped down in columns, in apparently random order
danielpbarron: on the topic of time and the pogo, I should point out that I recently had to update the time on my blue pogo (the one i'm using as a web server / irc client) because it had drifted from the real time by as much as a quarter hour in the few months it had been running continuously
jurov expects a discovery that satoshi cast and called functions from void*
ascii_field: danielpbarron: this is correct and unsurprising, and blows up the 'ntp once on powerup' thing
ascii_field: which means that it is severely pushed off course by events outside of its control
ascii_field: many interrupts - skipped moves of emulated clock
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16250 @ 0.00055754 = 9.06 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.00055558 = 3.5002 BTC [-]
ascii_field: the callgraph thing is a straight 'travelling salesman' problem
ascii_field: but gotta minimize the crossings of the paths.
ascii_field: likewise, the 'bubbles' ought to be sized proportional to their connectivity degree.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: <ascii_field> danielpbarron: this is correct and unsurprising, and blows up the 'ntp once on powerup' thing << query timeserver every modulo(rand) seconds?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37800 @ 0.00055432 = 20.9533 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00056168 = 2.4714 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52042 @ 0.00055206 = 28.7303 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: querying it at all is problematic. see today's thread.
ascii_field: mats: read that last night. notice how it wants you to build with microshit vs!!!
BingoBoingo: querying at all is problematic. If it must be queried though best to make the timing of queries less predictable.
ascii_field: (and before anyone chimes in with 'of course vs' - this is empirically false. can build arbitrarily complicated crapware for winblows with gcc)
ascii_field: i've build drivers for winblows with mingw (gcc)
ascii_field: it is possible to develop for winblows and remain sane if you treat it like a 'nintendo'
ascii_field: no one writes code for nintendo ~on~ a nintendo
mats: i wonder why it failed to build on OS X
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27024 @ 0.00055973 = 15.1261 BTC [+] {2}
ascii_field: danielpbarron: if you missed the thread - it was about how we have no clock on pogo
danielpbarron: i have read it all; just happened upon this relevant thread coincidentally
danielpbarron: in 2010 a very similar conversation was being had over on the forum
trinque: so perhaps if I can find where it stores the symbol table, I can get the data out of this vast piece of mozilla
ascii_field: this is the output of a proggy that can take any cpp tree ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3619 @ 0.00055252 = 1.9996 BTC [-]
trinque: ascii_field: mozilla made dxr
trinque: presumably to help work on their vast wad o cpp
trinque: I am not declaring victory
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41950 @ 0.00054687 = 22.9412 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00055259 = 10.1124 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53259 @ 0.00054563 = 29.0597 BTC [-] {3}
trinque: haha holy shit, dxr's "install" method is vagrant
trinque: A FUCKING VM FOR A STATIC HTML GENERATOR
trinque: BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THIS IS HOW THINGS ARE DONE TODAY
trinque: these earth humans need a ritual which tests for mindless imitation in children
trinque: the ritual should be arranged such that imitating someone else without reflecting on the outcome first results in death
trinque: better yet, rather than death, a life of moving heavy objects
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29450 @ 0.00054391 = 16.0181 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22701 @ 0.00054391 = 12.3473 BTC [-]
shinohai: I wish my node would sync to either IP, as it is I'm stuck atm.
mod6: i seem to remember asciilifeform switching over to -addnode after he got stuck. but let's see what he says about it. i'll probably hit the same issue myself.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8449 @ 0.00054153 = 4.5754 BTC [-]
shinohai: I'll give that a shot mod6, been using -connect
mod6: alright, as you wish. let me know how it goes.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35900 @ 0.00055278 = 19.8448 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo finally trying to recreate my OpenBSD 0.7.2-ish qt build. Must have lost the original sources that worked somewhere down the line
BingoBoingo: Well, not really re-create. Just fucking up the version strings in the name of lulz
shinohai: It's always in the name of lulz BingoBoingo
ben_vulpes: <mod6> i seem to remember asciilifeform switching over to -addnode after he got stuck. but let's see what he says about it. i'll probably hit the same issue myself. << i don't think he did
shinohai: I switched my config to addnode, got unstuck then stopped it
shinohai: I made the sync fine until that orphaned block on the 4th