asciilifeform: notice that nobody walks around with hydraulic presses hanging from neck as fashion statement.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's been sitting there since 1982, so far ~0 uptake among these folx.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the animal, imho, doesn't have a skin that anyone might care to wear. if you remove the safety, it simply becomes a muchly verbose cpp.
asciilifeform: i suspect that this will not happen, however. the language has 0 appeal ~other than~ for the safety.
asciilifeform: phf: it'd be entertaining to see what, exactly, they'd do.
asciilifeform: then again, i could be wrong, they could shit out 'tools' that 'autogenerate the hard parts' or whatnot.
asciilifeform: phf: i have a hard time picturing said 'modernization' as looking like anything other than 'let's turn it into cpp'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has a thread a few days ago re sister-fucking, as example
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the term i usually use is 'ecological problem' -- and it is tricky, because how do you demonstrate that something is one, beyond dispute. this may be why various derps like to go straight to masquerading as ecologists...
asciilifeform: where there's enough stored fat not to notice that intake has stopped
asciilifeform: builders, for instance, who thought 'i'll just lay a pile of whatevers and call it a house' were buried alive by fucking hammurabi.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is interesting that programmers often lament 'we have no union', but in fact managed a 'confederacy of dunces' so strong and monolithic that they get away with crapola that'd get any other kind of artisan, mass-hanged
asciilifeform: in other lulz, http://archive.is/3Ycl6 >> kako finally turns off +m , and it is revealed! that the 'gimme money pleeez' folx still exist. just as years ago.
asciilifeform: eventually one -- learns. and then you begin to see the monkeys who 'why should i have to look for a special place before taking a shit, i can do it wherever' as the loathesome things they are.
asciilifeform: both are items 'civilians' are quite accustomed to, to the point of 'how the fuck can anyone even think of living without'
asciilifeform: i don't bring them up together out of superficial similarity, but from fundamental one -- v rejects 'merge' as a concept; ada rejects the promiscuous pointer and cast
asciilifeform: but yes, you will do 2-3x the work, subjectively, as when writing c proggy. but it is not ~wasted~ work, just as the work of using v instead of 'git' etc. is not wasted.☟︎
asciilifeform: there ~are~ considerable wins in convenience -- you can ask an array how big it is; and where it starts/ends (indices are not from zero, but can be from anything to anything, as can types -- you can have a type 'integers from 12 to 15', say.)
asciilifeform: but it does require letting go of n decades of 'c thinking', where you reflexively litter the proggy with pointers to whatevers
asciilifeform: and more or less any problem that doesn't involve os calls, can be solved in some other way.
asciilifeform: mod6: in principle you can always beg compiler for mercy and introduce 'unchecked', c-isms. or even (1 line, in fact) import arbitrary c.
asciilifeform: because machine has nfi which items in ~current~ scope will go out of scope first...
asciilifeform: in most cases you can't even point to a thing in ~your current scope~
asciilifeform: the pointer rules are the clearest case of this.
asciilifeform: then later it dawns on you that the 'could have been trivial' would have been at the cost of becoming c.
asciilifeform: ada in particular is 'a harsh mistress', you can sit for 3 hrs and your thing simply won't build, gcc won't eat it, and you gotta actually open the book and grasp the reason why, brute force knob-twiddling will get you 0 result.☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: there is no substitute for actually writing proggies, aha
asciilifeform: (or use 'unchecked' but then you may as well write in c )
asciilifeform: fwiw the part i found most painful was the 'access' (pointer) rules. generally you can't have a pointer unless you can demonstrate that it can never dangle☟︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633701 << i regret to inform ben_vulpes that reading the book (pick anything that is about ada95 or post) is actually necessary -- a number of things (e.g., the very 'fascist' access variable rules) will make 0 sense until you do☝︎
asciilifeform: brute force can even get results if the problem is inherently susceptible (e.g. clearing mine field) -- or, failing that, if at least one bothers to start from unexplored point in solution space
asciilifeform: this is not 'artisan', in my pov, but something like what small children do, brute force algo
asciilifeform: (because the reference is a simple integer, showing where thing is found!)
asciilifeform: these will end up 'interned', i.e. represented in the db, in such a way that any tx referred to inside a tx is fetched in O(1)
asciilifeform: (i.e. fetching an output or input is a simple array access)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: presently it eats blocks and tx in a heapless and demonstrably nonoverflowable way, into a general-purpose fixed space (no tx can >1MB) representation that is operable in O(1)☟︎
asciilifeform: it is a proggy that came out of asciilifeform's slow adaization of all known-permanent bitcoin protocol
asciilifeform: outputs also get a place to store 'who-spent', which is an index to the input who spends them (if such exists.) this is practical because the main db is not affected by reorgs (only 'nursery' is. currently i've defined 'nursery' to store the leading train of 144 blox. this is adjustible.)
asciilifeform: btw storing actual physical locations in all of the places where a tx refers to other tx, saves megatonne of time as well as space. (and in case it isn't obvious, it remains possible to reconstitute the original tx, noshit, we store the 256-bit sha2(sha2(x)) hash of a tx ONCE on the disk -- or whole thing'd be useless )
asciilifeform: ( and fought, successfully, the temptation to release the thing before the mmap'd replaces-all-the-db-and-indices thing is properly done )
