96000+ entries in 0.056s
spyked: mircea_popescu, but say I have a similar itcbot vtree, with logbot on
top.
then
top of it I include
trilemabot (handling self-voicing et al.),
then on
top of
that rss bot.
then if I want
to use rss bot but not logbot (which don't depend on each other), how would I go about
that?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-09 14:31 mircea_popescu: a right. hanbot do me a favour : download ~only~
those patches which are in
the leftmost
trunk seen on phf's viewer (so exclude vtools_vdiff_sha, and its dependents) and
try
to flow again ?
mircea_popescu: and yes, "the complete
tree of all patches ever downstream from
tmsr-os genesis" will include ~everything~ we ever made, and
there's nothing wrong with
that ; and people not caring
to keep
the complete patchset will keep whatever subs
they want, exactly like
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-09#1794613 ☝︎ mircea_popescu: but should eg, bitcoin-fs be written,
then yes
trb will exist in
the same
tree as bitcoin-fs. and should we go as low as
tmsr-os,
then yes,
tmsr-os as genesis will have bitcoin-fs patchzone and
then
trb patchzone after
that. and people wanting
to use bitcoinfs for something else can just press up
to
there and no further. and projects wanting
to import bitcoinfs but not
trb will just build off
that height of
tree, and continue
trinque: I don't see
that eucrypt code includes
the ada compiler? why not?
trinque: this is absolutely not what was being denoted by
that
mircea_popescu: afaik ben_vulpes made one and
trinque
the other or somesuch. in general,
the cause for
this is author1
thinks author2 is an idiot.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: if it were
the case
that item has >1 dependency, oi1..n,
then it would have been resolved by a) picking one and b) introducing as patches into
that
tree all otheritems 1..n-1.
mircea_popescu: this is factually incorrect. from "item has 1 dependency : otheritem" it follows strictly
that item will be a succession of patches on otheritem
tree.
spyked: mircea_popescu, lemme
try
to restate
the
thing as I see it.
the rss bot doesn't make changes
to ircbot, it's a new
thing
that uses ircbot as a dependency. so from
this follows (in my mind, so pls
to say if broken!)
that
the new
thing will be a genesis.
trinque: how would you like me
to restate it
mircea_popescu: i don't even know what fucking line. what line ? it's either a genesis or a patchset.
that's
thje fucking line. what other line ?!
trinque: ircbot will be a dependency of his
thing, so he wants
to know how
to denote
that
trinque: I
think he's asking where
the line is drawn
trinque: does
the v-tree suck in a particular version of
the linux kernel
too?
spyked: more
to
the point:
there is a relation between ircbot and
the rss bot, but I'm not sure it would make sense for v
to enforce
that.
spyked: mircea_popescu,
the rss bot would branch
the ircbot
tree
then. if
trinque or mircea_popescu see any reason for adding rss bot on
top of ircbot, I see no reason not
to, but it would be disjoint item (i.e. only file changed would be manifest)
trinque: he
thinks you were
that derp from earlier
lobbesbot: douchebag: Sent 4 hours and 32 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> if you
think
the faux-camwhores approach will work
to make a 'backup' identity for self,
this
time with new flavouring -- 1) it won't 2) drop it 3)
this is good road
to -10
mircea_popescu: i don't get it. you can't press
to arbitrary heads now ?
spyked: mircea_popescu, it is going
to be separate item, but based on ircbot. can't be an extension of ircbot, for
the same reason logbot can't be (some people might not wanna put a rsstron into
their ircbot)
mircea_popescu: and
the fact
that i have
to ask at all, let alone i have
to re-ask after an hour's conversation is a very strong marker for a poorly organized mind. you're supposed
to know what you're doing, what!
mircea_popescu: so, is
the rss bot ~something you're extending irc bot into~ or ~something you're writing de novo~. one and only one may be
the case.
mircea_popescu: but be
that as it may :
there's always going
to be good and bad arguments for whatever choice ; but
that has no bearing on
the fact
that you must still choose, and at
the
time of choice not at whatever
time it may occur
to you
to.
spyked: mircea_popescu, I ended up working on a couple of new ones. a.
trilema spec subset and b. rss bot.
mircea_popescu: is it
that you're writing a new item ? is it
that you're extending an extant one ?
this is decided FIRST. not "as we go along, and
then changed".
mircea_popescu: spyked, yes, but you have
to pick something at some point. you can't be doing everything at
the same
time.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-02 11:03 spyked: speaking of which;
to all ircbot users: I have a patch proposal for ircbot (and possibly logbot).
the problem: nickserv authentication makes a distinction between "nickname" and "user".
this allows e.g.
to group multiple irc bots (with different nicks) under a single username and cloak. so my proposal is
to add a new *optional* "user" slot
to ircbot and use it for auth instead of "nick" when available
mircea_popescu: "obviously" and "implicitly" are not nearly as friendly as
they may seem ; especially in
this context.
mircea_popescu: "hey $x (=trinque), i read $y and it makes perfect sense. i intend
to do $z"
spyked: mircea_popescu, which "this"? my reading ircbot, or
the implication regarding v?
trinque: however, my work on portage walks
towards
that.
mircea_popescu: think : if you
take
the
time
to say, i don't have
to
take
the
time
to later ask. it's a penny saved, aka earned.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 21:02 spyked: dependencies explicitly;
this is already
the case in
the bot's .asd file), or c. add rss bot as set of patches onto ircbot.
trinque: we can't put each descendent class in every parent's v-tree, or
there's one v-tree for
the whole world
trinque: it'd have
to; I can write a class
that extends n other classes.
spyked: the reason I was first set off by mircea_popescu's question was
that it led me
to "what implication do lisp modules (packages?) have for v? is each module/package supposed
to have its own v
tree?"
mircea_popescu: so
then properly,
the rationale is in
the vpatches, something like
that.
trinque: the blogpost is
the README from each
trinque: and yeah,
the rationale for what each class is used for is in
the blog post
trinque: it's not a vtree on
top of ircbot
mircea_popescu: "here's how i expect
this
to be used : a) ircbot is a basic class ; b) logbot is an extension of it ; c) if you're ever making a rss bot, scavenge
the relevant parts off logbot, and put a different vtree on
top of ircbot"
trinque: it's a descendent class
thereof
trinque: the proper place
to do
that is not at all ircbot
mircea_popescu: spyked, so
then you were actually going
to " writing de novo" ?
spyked: and built on
top ircbot
mircea_popescu: trinque, is it actually
the case ircbot can't do
the voicing ?
spyked: my
thought re
trilema spec is having something along
the lines of a "trilbot"
that performs some of
the basic scaffolding (self-voicing and command prefix parsing).
trinque: this imho is
totally proper, atop
that I've written a class logbot
that extends ircbot, makes it write messages
to a "log"
table in postgresql, read outgoing messages from an "outbox"
table
trinque: ircbot does nothing but connect
to IRC, does nickserv auth, and provides a minimal api
to send/receive messages
trinque: ok, so lets have
the
thread!
spyked takes
this lesson. will make his pre/post-work communication happen (as explicitly as possible) in
the future.
mircea_popescu: all
this communication you opt
to not do when it costs you a dime a page i
then have
to do later, at
the cost of a dollar a word. it's fucking bs, save me money.
mircea_popescu: poor communication with
the exterior and poor structuring of
the internal process. no, it's not AT ALL
the same fucking
thing, oh, x is vaguely related
to y so let's call it all z."
the point isn't
to make stu over here.
trinque: spyked: hasn't
to do with
the publishing and signing yet. open source is shit precisely because every idiot comes in and does his own
thing without
talking
to
the last guy
mircea_popescu: instead you just dump an endless pile of diffs
that a) do multiple unrelated
things and b) don't even betray any awareness of
the process involved in all of
this.
mircea_popescu: it means
this :
that instead of explicitly communicating state, a. "i r making rss bot" ; b. "hey
trinque wtf, ircbot doesn't do voicing ?" ; c. "o well, stopped making rss bot, making voice module for ircbot
to be able
to make rss bot later" and
THEN 1. pushing a voice patch
to ircbot BEFORE d. "back
to making rss bot"
spyked: but yes, I understand mircea_popescu now,
thing is vaporware/non-existent until properly published and signed.
mircea_popescu: o brother. what is
this, spyked's friendly fuzzing service ?
mircea_popescu: do you have a value for "doing
the polarbeard stupid" ? can you explain what it is ?
spyked: no, what I mean is really, couldn't evaluate
the metaphor in
this context. /me admits
to being overly
thick.
mircea_popescu: THAT is
the process. right
there. what are you doing, on whose
thing, etcetera. it's entirely univocal, what.
mircea_popescu: understand,
the only reason we even fucking rewrite
things is because
the imperial "item of unknown ownership, provenance and parentage" breaks republican process.
spyked: mircea_popescu,
trinque, aha, now I get my miscommunication. but I confess
to being confused by
the "value for $x" question.
mircea_popescu: well, apparently he doesn't know what goes in $x. which... i have nfi how
this is possible, but somehow it occured. "i am working on a
thing" "who made it" "dunno" "vorwarts, soviet!"
trinque: there's a whole
thread on whether or not "fuck you, I'm not marrying bot commands
to postgresql" we're denying posterity here
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 03:41
trinque: you latest crop of socially damaged derps will learn
to communicate, and
that's all.
trinque: if you'd have asked
the author of
the
thing you're apparently using
trinque: spyked: did it ever cross your mind
that command handling might be a solved problem
too?
ben_vulpes: hey BingoBoingo would you apply
the same razor you applied
to
the landing page copy
to
the rest of
the copy on
the pizarro site?
mircea_popescu: nevermind
that part for now. do you have a value for $x in "hey $x".
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2018-05-25 12:38 spyked: so eventually I expect some of
the rss bot components (e.g. command handling, self-voicing)
to evolve into standalone scaffolding for #trilema bots
that implements a decent subset of
http://trilema.com/2016/trilema-bot-spec/ spyked: mircea_popescu, I admit some of my wording might be confusing, but I announced
that in my report
today. self-voicing is a prerequisite for rss bot, arising from
http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-25#1818700 , so I'm implementing. how is
this state switching?
☝︎ mircea_popescu: spyked, it was obvious you were going
to implement voicing
to make rss bot ? and it was also obvious
that you're going
to switch state from "making rss bot"
to "implementing voice for ircbot so i can proceed with making rssbot", so you didn't announce
that either. do you have a value for $x ?
trinque: he should extend
the
thing with a subclass
that implements deedbot auth, yeah, but recall deedbot auth service is itself down
the
tree from ircbot
spyked: no, why protest. I
thought it was obvious
that I was gonna implement it?
mircea_popescu: well, did you protest
that anywhere ? preferably as "hey $x, im
trying
to use ircbot
to make rssbot, but you've not got voice going ?!"
☟︎ spyked: mircea_popescu, it can be used
to implement self-voicing, but no, it doesn't implement
that functionality itself.
mircea_popescu: why's
that question
take 100s of seconds
to process anyway. it can't be ~that~ intricate, just copy a register and return.
mircea_popescu: cool. and
trying
to do
this you discovered ircbot can't actually handle voicing itself ?
spyked: mircea_popescu, in
the same sense
that logbot is a logging module for ircbot, yes.
that would mean b (in
the a, b, c above)
mircea_popescu: spyked, so is it
then
the case you're writing an rss module for icrbot ?
mircea_popescu: if you ask "well, am i extending something or writing de novo", you're participating. if you're doing anything else, you're wanking about ; an activity entirely undistinguishable from chatting up
the starbucks waitress or braying under
the full moon.
mircea_popescu: when i say "wank" i'm not just using a word for
the purpose of filling a conversational hole.
that's what wank fucking is, "any activity proceeding without having considered
that question".
spyked: dependencies explicitly;
this is already
the case in
the bot's .asd file), or c. add rss bot as set of patches onto ircbot.
☟︎ spyked: mircea_popescu, I'm not sure what you mean. lemme explain:
the rss bot depends on ircbot and other pieces (some imported from heathenlands, some written by scratch from yours
truly). from my reading so far, (e.g. diana_coman's use of MPI in Eucrypt) I dun see
this as a strictly solved problem. I could a. make a new genesis consisting of ircbot + rss bot + all dependencies, or b. genesis rss bot alone (and mention ircbot + all others as