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asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1506537 << if i want to send a packet to my next door neighbour, and it has to go through a station 3km away, it is idiocy ☝︎

asciilifeform: there are machines where ret (or similar) takes an operand, and you can make a jump table that way

asciilifeform: something like a nop sled in reverse

asciilifeform: but a fudge of the inept

asciilifeform: lel that does not sound like a trick of the competent

mircea_popescu recalls reading a twenty five line of ret once, throwing hands up, leaving the matter to others.

mircea_popescu: but the coupla projects of scientific computing i observed, the phases were readily distinguishable : 1. people are excited, they loudly choose "best" hot new stuff, pass along napkin sketches ; 2. the super-duper shit runs into more wrinkles than it's worth, kids are all depresed. at this point the project either dies or management intervenes, gets wizard, wizard takes a weeklong look at it, decides "on the basis of consider

a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 21:03 phf: pascal, less so than above languages, but still more so than even C, since it has a standard notion of pascal machine. C can do 20 year old code, but within some narrow scope of posix, or more like "unix"

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo quite exactly ; spoken like a true noah.

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: What is an ark but a boat that is actually plumbed and wired like a structure and not some duct taped sea gypsy trailer?

a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 20:09 Framedragger: wonder what tmsr thinks of ipython notebooks. basically you go to website and are presented with python interpreter, and a ready-made list of commands for graphing, doing stats etc. thinking of doing one of these for some initial ssh keyset analysis. nothing too serious at all

a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 19:15 pete_dushenski: "“I am looking to weed out police and crazies,” she said. She estimates that only one in four potential customers ultimately passes. Those who do win some time with a professional escort/dominatrix, but it comes at a hefty price: Each hour can cost up to $800, and Rita’s cut is 30%." << steep!

mircea_popescu: a ty pete_dushenski

mats: i put a bookmark in the last one and forgot to pick it up again, i'm now reminded to do so

mats: anyway, other stuff includes 'Under the Black Flag' by Cordingly, Johnson's 'A General History of the Pyrates', and 'Empire of Blue Water' by Talty

a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 18:24 phf: asciilifeform: it's a totally speculative exploration of north african pirate city states during the age of exploration http://hermetic.com/bey/pirate-utopias/ it might appeal to your romantic nature

pete_dushenski: next thing you know an autonomous car will drive a trunkfull of c4 into the white house ☟︎

pete_dushenski: sounds like a dream!

mircea_popescu: diana_coman lol what a mess. a) wasn't built by teutons ; b) cantemir the elder was king, not stephen omfg.

asciilifeform: and needs a certain 'height of tower' which is unlikely to stick around for much longer imho.

asciilifeform: the 20th c. stability thing, with its attendant luxuries, e.g., industrial standards, is likely a historic fluke.

asciilifeform: but really it is quite a thing.

asciilifeform: story interlude: i bought a ~35 y.o. cnc mill recently.

asciilifeform: diana_coman, mircea_popescu : this is an interesting question, with a depressing answer - common lisp standard is nearing, arguably, it's 'lincoln war' moment, because the necessary general-purpose computer is growing thin on the ground.

mircea_popescu: imagine the sort of crack shot she is with a rifle.

a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 20:57 asciilifeform: phf: re python: in my view, if you EVER end up breaking a language in such a way that 20 y.o. code cannot run, not only was your lang broken to begin with, but YOUR HEAD was.

mircea_popescu: let's restate. "i would be very comfortable in a chair that was built just like this collapsing assemblage between seconds 1.3 and 1.45 of the fall".

asciilifeform: may as well ask why i would consider a boat that 'only' can last for two decades.

mircea_popescu: i'm sorry, you're discussing a slice of time worth ~two decades ?

mircea_popescu: looky : every time you find this imaginary space where thermodynamics doesn't apply, it's not that you've found a space where thermodynamics doesn't apply as much as you've deluded yourself in some manner to ignore some obvious wrinkle.

mircea_popescu: mass has ~nothing to do with it though. YOU are the target, personally. for as long as you're the sort that wants to be a king without a crown, there's going to be a preditor chasing you around.

mircea_popescu: if the sheep found a way to graze on rafts, the wolves would ride around in speedboats. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: they misperceived the sea, much like you do, much like people who don't sail generally, as a "empty" space.

asciilifeform: i did wonder, as a boy, reading about such, what did these folks have instead of brains, that their answer to 'pirates sink 20%' was 'put Moar Silver on MEGA-BOAT'

mircea_popescu: "british" doesn't exist here. albion was a failed state bought wholesale by the dutch who then used it as naval stage base.

asciilifeform: but yes, it is a result of 'we Just Want To move cargo'

mircea_popescu: it's a fundamental mechanism of putting the inept but uppity in place.

asciilifeform: per my (admittedly nonexpert) understanding, piracy is an artifact of abundant, unprotected merchant shipping, and tends to quickly get multiplied by 0 when it becomes a palpable problem

mircea_popescu: to take the matter home, you could say nelson was a pirate rather than a lord ; or better yet that kelvin was a scientist rather than a lord. but these people principally did the thing in question ; whereas the african states principally did subsistence farming and small manufacture.

asciilifeform: even modern-day somali pirates have a story about how they are merely collecting back-rent for usurped fishing rights.

mircea_popescu: the original - perhaps. the one im discussing here, very much a normal pasha. who happened to have a port in his lands.

mircea_popescu: that is one point ; the point im making however is that they weren't pirates in the sense you're not a penis. part of what they did, of fucking course, given the geography. but they were otherwise just as much a normal country as say albania.

asciilifeform: noshit.jpg: who is 'pirate' and who is 'armed tax collector' is a pov question.

mircea_popescu: anyway, point being they were "pirates" in the sense erdogan is "embattled". a matter of the foreign press and no more.

mircea_popescu: spanish tried to attack him on land, etc a whole conundrum

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505981 << but this thing where "build in environment with large cost" is not a solution, because the enemy incurs the cost only when visiting whereas you incur the cost permanently. so this is, strategically, a nonstarter, whether the medium is mars or ocean or w/e. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505978 << well, technically the solution to your problem is "become a lich", and will be offered in eulora. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 18:08 phf: i'd live on a sub, if it had those 1970s stage set rooms with giant windows through which you can observe underwater marine life, but which you can also close if you're being attacked by the establishment

mircea_popescu: (yes, i'm pretty much convinced that IF you actually wanted to do what is here contemplated, a wooden structure is the best choice.)

asciilifeform: this entails some insulation in the hull (orlov retrofitted ordinary boat with this, there are pics on his www) and a heat source.

asciilifeform: well perhaps not arctic, but in the general case survive in 'die of hypothermia in half hour' water which fills a good chunk of the planet for much of the year

mircea_popescu: i'm also certain it wouldn't be worth having ; but that's a different story.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1505943 << it's likely fully automated sub could be had ; possibly for the cost of a decade or two of his life. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: did you actually encounter a mosquito while here ?

Joshua-I: I have broad taste in that area. Let me think on it a minute

mircea_popescu: but if one is going to live in a large human anthill, byzantium prolly a better choice than more modern atrocities.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not a bad place. of course, these days... Joshua-I sorry wut ?

mircea_popescu: every time i leave someplace there's a bunch of girly tears left behind, you know ?

mircea_popescu: well, if you count it going to like 5 celsius ONE NIGHT and otherwise being a very balmy lower tens thing winter,

asciilifeform: winter is a month or so long ?

asciilifeform: but regardless, jurov has no case here, because if i want to plug in such a toaster today, i can easily do so without spending so much as one extra penny.

asciilifeform: jurov saw such a thing?!

a111: Logged on 2016-07-19 20:33 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1506153 << single-user computing in a wwwtron is braindamaged.

Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1506175 << oh sure, i agree; but it may work for a limited case, as a quick thing; not as a proper stats platform or whatever, god forbid! ☝︎

asciilifeform: and a tall pile of things which MUST burn.

asciilifeform: (they get to, e.g., buy a million adapters from one broken misstandard to another)

asciilifeform: if i go to a shop and buy a vacuum cleaner and the mains plug fits in NO socket, i will never buy from said vendor again.

asciilifeform: https://archive.is/oGZR6 << in other lulz. 'Marines Will Soon Need to Know How to Shoot a Moving Target, Because That Wasn't a Thing Before.'

asciilifeform: jurov: this is because the standard was incomplete, and it is nearly impossible to write a program today wholly using only the standard.

asciilifeform: this is quite impossible in a properly-specified multivendor environment.

asciilifeform: at any rate, the existence of even the POSSIBILITY of a program which ran on one, but not another, is what i was speaking of

jurov: yes, there was a gui

asciilifeform: was there a gui ?

jurov: i dunno, i had a life as java developer, ibm jvm was superior on linux and ran both eclipse and our project fine

asciilifeform: nor was there ever a hard standard.

asciilifeform: there was NEVER a usable multivendorization of java.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1506248 << in past life, when i gave half a shit, EVERY single proggy i tried to run on ibm jvm, barfed. ☝︎

asciilifeform: (a good chunk of historic c succumbs to endianism, word size, etc. idiocy)

asciilifeform: phf: c 'portability' is a laugh, considering the tight coupling with cpu

asciilifeform: parts of which pre-date common lisp and are almost half a century old.

phf: pascal, less so than above languages, but still more so than even C, since it has a standard notion of pascal machine. C can do 20 year old code, but within some narrow scope of posix, or more like "unix" ☟︎

asciilifeform: (yes most folks programmin' today have never seen, smelled, touched, such a thing.)

asciilifeform: but naturally crapolade built ~by~ and ~for~ disposable young cocklets, does not ~have~ a concept of '20 year old code i wish to run today'

asciilifeform: phf: re python: in my view, if you EVER end up breaking a language in such a way that 20 y.o. code cannot run, not only was your lang broken to begin with, but YOUR HEAD was. ☟︎

phf: somehow the separation between the two is totally alien concept to a lot of people who run into tmsr machine. "i eat shit, therefore it's good for everyone". we too sometimes eat shit, but we have good sense to know that it might not be the best thing

phf: Joshua-I: sure, that's why i use intellij for work, but i will not talk up the virtues of intellij like it's a good thing, which is what you're doing

phf: Joshua-I: you make it sound like being sloppy with your tools is a good thing :)

asciilifeform: clim is a misery.

trinque: that said wtf is wrong with the lisp repl for a "notebook"

asciilifeform: (i will remind n00bs, also, that the part of phuctor which actually phuctors is a pure c proggy.)

phf: Joshua-I: i don't know what "same api" means, in this case. ipython is an enhanced ~repl~, but the code that you write with it constantly changes, because can't just load data set into a python array. need to use numpy, etc.

asciilifeform: whereas sanity - is possible. (e.g., on lispm you could use a lisp data structure in a fortran proggy and vice-versa, with 0 glue.)

Joshua-I: afaik ipython has a similar api to a lot of stats / machine learning suites

asciilifeform: i suffered the misfortune, at rupturefarms, of maintaining a 'sage' thing, it was agony

phf: ipython is a handy python repl thing, but i think it was some people's first repl, so it turned into reinvention of clim presentations. problem is it's entirely useless without third party libraries for any kind of large scale data analysis, because core python is limited. where's the landscape of python scientific libraries is a constantly changing mess.

asciilifeform: i have a ~7 y.o. version, it runs fine.

asciilifeform: at any rate, the thing 'ipython', 'sage', etc. imitate, is 'mathematica', which is a close-source turd but at least it WORKS and WILL WORK FOREVER on my internet-less machine.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-19#1506153 << single-user computing in a wwwtron is braindamaged. ☝︎☟︎