log☇︎
87000+ entries in 0.646s
mircea_popescu: phf to answer the "why asm" thing : because if at issue is to obtain a correct f(lisp) so as it produces the same asm as gcc(c) then we'd better have a good example of target "same asm". his approach is judicious. ☟︎
framedr_ghetto: there's also a brazilian guy who keeps his dirty socks in the hallway; apparently it's a pattern and not a single instance, too
framedr_ghetto: but cleaning a flat... that's a demand too much
framedr_ghetto: wine and cold weather and joys of subletting a flat to local folk.
framedr_ghetto: feel like a (very shitty) nasa engineer communicating with rover on mars and not being able to debug
mircea_popescu: a so it works now ?
mircea_popescu: framedr_ghetto it's a very cheap signal of "you're drunk", which should be used to reset its state
framedr_ghetto: i'm on a guest network with no access to server. i don't know why scriba is acting up. shall be investigated tomorrow but not before
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 17:38 asciilifeform: and ended up with a thing that, per the data sheet, ought to work, but never did.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#1001 << this is a very useful sort of datapoint. didja write / are you writing an article with details ? publish the resulyting driver ? discussion ? etc ?
mircea_popescu: seems to me a fine definition of "working computer" is irc+rsa.
BingoBoingo: That would explain a lot.
mircea_popescu: "liberals" are insane by simple virtue of being liberals, working on the exact same orwellian rails ; and "transgender" derps by simple virtue of gender confusion. a bunch of indian peons dying in a stampede aren't insane, partly because they're too poor to be insane, partly because they're too stupid to be insane. admitting these can even be distinct.
a111: Logged on 2016-07-11 12:27 mircea_popescu: "If you are white, no positive, active role is left to you. Either you accommodate yourself to the unreasonable, or you play out your life in some futile back alley. You are doomed to this by the disgraceful history of your kind. Maybe it's fair, maybe it's not, but it is the way things are." << from another schmuck with a nobel prize.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#588 << they're just inept. crazy discusses the subjective reflection of reality ; not much else. can die as perfectly sane inept losers. the quoted south african ( http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-11#1500956 ) is a fine example of such. you can equally well be insane, a la arthur blair. "oh, i am an english socialist, though socialsm is necessarily the end of being english, and i'm aware of t ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 06:25 adlai: to pick a concrete example, if that alice0meta thinks she's a dead person's tulpa, that in and of itself, doesn't make her out of touch with consensus reality, any more than some people believe in http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_life_of_jesus/the_empty_tomb/jn20_01.html
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#572 << ostracism is maybe a matter of being crafty, but crazy dun enter into it.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 06:20 trinque: crazy is a blunt term for "woefully inaccurate self/world model compared to others" but certainly exists.
asciilifeform: ahahahahaha delusion lolk we had the 'man spends life learning to be a mouse' thread already, n times
mircea_popescu: (yes all bridges move. no such thing as a rigid bridge since many years nao)
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as it's a bridge, use it for car traffic rather than as a wind foil ; and pray the architect wasn't a whore fucking drunks. that's about all.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 06:14 adlai: that's a tricky claim. i've taken much, much, much larger doses than the ones that (indirectly!) led to the aforementioned bad situations. i think YGFS50 depends much more on "set and setting" than on a molecule's shape and headcount
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#554 << how to correctly allocate which doses correspond to which effects is, of course, a science reserved for the truly heroic.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 06:11 ben_vulpes: i'm going to go out on a limb and doubt that there's enough data even on variation in human sensitivity to drugs much less by class and genotype to even be making claims about "LD50"
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 06:11 adlai: the more nuanced answer recognizes that i was hospitalized as a direct result of an argument, which would not have happened if i'd left the house with a sweater that morning. so... don't forget to bring a towel?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 05:56 adlai: what's with all the shitty drugs? i step away from irc-every-day for a couple months, suddenly everybody's fiending alcohol, tobacco, and firearms^H^H^Hcaffeine?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 05:51 phf: i'll bring it back probably tonight. i've got tea pot, i've got hookah, i've got a fuck you to "no smoking in building" complaints
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#518 << i dunno what school you went to ; but think about the geometric meaning of tan for a second.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#402 << i have nfi who "patrick" is, but if it's that douchebag murck involved with the vesseness "bitcoin foundation" scam, he has a lot bigger problems than idly posturing around ethereum's corpse/propellerhat
mircea_popescu: which technically denotes a countable countless set.
mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#377 << because what'd they say, that they believe themselves useless and a scourge upon the local community ?
asciilifeform: 'One thing is clear: If the financial services industry is to embrace a new technology, it cannot be one in which mischief and mistakes are immutable and fraudsters can defend their actions on spurious ideological grounds. '
mircea_popescu: this is "if chicken were spherical and in vacuum"++. "if building cvadrature of circle is trivial, then here's a drawing for adding angles"
mircea_popescu: every drawing in euclid's a REAL drawing.
mircea_popescu: "we are the premiere science and technology institution in the world. and we can't light a lightbulb. both of these for the exact same reason - we "learned" from wikipedia, ted talks, and other inept contrivances."
mircea_popescu: wherein to run around like headless chickens. if a headless chicken.
mircea_popescu: this is what your dumbass "modern democracy" aka "human rights" aka "illuminism" aka "usg" aka "eu" aka "western civilisation" aka dumb shit is doing for you : gives you a pen.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 04:18 adlai has been reviewing math towards next month's semester start. just encountered a beautiful "fits in head" derivation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:AngleAdditionDiagramSine.svg
mircea_popescu: he doesn't have a toolbox ; but he does have all the convenience of convenience stores!
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 04:18 ben_vulpes: just two weekends ago i had to excise some rust-welded nuts that didn't have clearance for a socket wrench.
asciilifeform: to which there was a counter, 'cipher with hardware interposer between disk and comp'
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 03:37 trinque: braindamaged thing uses the same command to init a drive as attach the softraid again next time
phf: sort of like there was always that one kid who'd eat bugs on a dare
asciilifeform: 8390 was a product in 1995.
phf: why would i even entertain that thought, it should be quiet clear at this point that i've at no point suggested or plan to use C in a lisp os
asciilifeform: how? by masamuneing the thing into a c turd ?
asciilifeform: it is possible to make a very useful box where ONLY cpu/ram and nic work.
asciilifeform: well, if anyone can find me a nic !
asciilifeform: again, this isn't a case of 'it'll be a 10baseT until i get around to X', it's a case of 'init or go cry'
phf: if your nic can't accomodate for those things, then your computer can't do those things, but it might not be a problem for the first year
asciilifeform: at any rate, i would have implemented a 10baseT nic driver, IF ANYONE COULD SOURCE THE FUCKING CHIP
asciilifeform: nope. describing the various uses of a comp
asciilifeform: phf: if you'd like to try to, e.g., bitcoin, on a 10M nic, be my guest.
asciilifeform: i had ~all the extant ones brought in (this was a commercial project) and obtained data sheets, etc.
asciilifeform: it is a mythical thing, that does not exist on the market.
asciilifeform: there ISN'T a 'simple' nic.
phf: why would i think that? i'd probably go to a lesser N/s target until i can get it to work
phf: can you attempt a warm up multiple times without power cycling?
phf: write a handful of systems level vops, write rest in lisp
asciilifeform: and ended up with a thing that, per the data sheet, ought to work, but never did.
asciilifeform: and a good chunk of it is https://github.com/mtorromeo/r8168/blob/master/src/r8168_n.c#L11871
asciilifeform: let's do what mircea_popescu asked and work a concrete example.
phf: fwiw save-lisp of nic state and disk controller state is always a question of degree. either will have to be re-initialized in general, same way as it's careless and possibly meaningless to "save state of running lathe with a component"
asciilifeform: cleaning has a meaning
asciilifeform: where there's a lisp layer and a liquishit layer.
phf: if i were to bootstrap a lisp os from nothingness, i'd just save-lisp over network (or to a drive, depending on which one i figure out how to do first) every once in a while, and yes it's eww and completely suboptimal, but it'll be enough for me for a "i can do practical shit with this system"
asciilifeform: and with networked 'disk' this is a regular thing.
asciilifeform: and box that has persistent storage drop out from under it, ever, for any reason, is in a sad state.
asciilifeform: i worked at a rupturefarm once where we made a massive cluster of diskless boxen.
asciilifeform: phf: it is possible to make a useful machine with 0 video (serves x11 over nic).
mircea_popescu: see, but this isn't supposed to be a comparison of fucking emotional states.
phf: fwiw i went through the same exercise, and on account of being less of a depressive came out with different attitude
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a good chunk of what i've done here since showing up is to try and fill in the gaps in the 'pioneer with arrows in his back' part of my www.
phf: because linus wanted to telnet to his university machine, he could do his jerking off on a remote system, while chipping away at his surrounded setup
phf: in case of linux reasonable baseline was a dialup telnet
asciilifeform: i have the dead trees, they fill most of a shelf.
asciilifeform: there is not, and will not ever be, a 10 page useful compression of it.
phf: well, the main question is "what's a reasonable baseline" to keep you inside the os long enough so that you can keep hacking at it
mircea_popescu: in lisp as discussed here, and generally, a lot of checks are to be performed. this happens to jive well with a matrix calling system for functions and the muiticore design of cpu. because you as lisp will just a) maintain a matrix of all checks to be perfromed as functions and b) keep them permagoing on all processorss. so this way, the cpu count influences internal parallelism in the os, and thus os speed ; not program spee
asciilifeform: no, it was a ~reasonable~ point, but when you go and try to actually implement it, on actual iron, it drives you to nuttery. because the thing is encrusted with unfathomable layer of undocumented turdolade and 'no this doesn't actually work, because fuckyou'
mircea_popescu: in c, no checks are performed and you're welcome to go fuck yourself. consequently, c exposes internals of cpu to user, so as to better hang himself. as seen eg in case of eulora client usage of one core and a trillion other places.
mircea_popescu: yea, this is a nutty point, so let me write it out in detail.
mircea_popescu: in short, unwittingly perhaps, the extant x86 architecture ACTUALLY FAVOURS running a lisp machine over running a c machine.
mircea_popescu: phf imagine if you will, the beauty of a system where "threads" make no sense in the first place.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: understand, addition there is no longer 'ADD rax, rbx' but a pound of type bit checks and possible code paths on failure or type-promotion etc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: try to understand that linux is barely a thing at runtime. whereas a lisp os has to make up for 10,001 idiocies of the hardware, e.g., lack of garbage collector, lack of type bits in every (yes) machine word that get tested on every (yes) arithmetic operation, etc.
phf: asciilifeform: that wasn't a challenge, i was just disappointed
mircea_popescu: make a third, but in this direction, not in that, if you will.
asciilifeform: phf: a MB of hand-written asm, and reliance on x86-32isms, e.g., segmentation, is 'married'.
phf: well, only in a sense that it's written for it? i'm not sure married is the right word
mircea_popescu: i mean, is there some fundamental reason such can't be written ? that's a problem. otherwise...
mircea_popescu: how is this a drawback ?
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 06:16 ben_vulpes: some people go crazy, some people have crazy high tolerances, some people even eat a shitload over a long time and then one day break, the variance is wild and statistical claims cannot be made beyond "oh fuck might hose your brain under entirely unknowable circumstances but hey have fun with the tradeoff analysis kid"
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1543758 << Stereotypical last drunk seems to be X beers and a blackout where X<4 ☝︎
mircea_popescu: being dumb pays. being smart, not so much. hence http://trilema.com/2011/povestea-celor-trei-imparati-smecheri-si-a-celor-trei-negustori-fraieri-fabula-in-versuri-ilustrata/
a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 05:58 adlai is incidentally now sober for the longest he's been in weeks - and he has a loaded vape within arm's reach - so i'd say step one is not that relevant >> http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160826/#219
mircea_popescu: linux happened in a few years, need i remind you, and those were earlier, drier years.
mircea_popescu: there's the following parts : hardware, including memory, cpu, disk etc. we shall call this x86 for short, even if it's a longer story ; tll, which is a compiler. does exactly same as the gcc does in linux : takes lisp code, spits out bytecode ; and finally the lelnel, which does what the kernel does in linux.
mircea_popescu: i am not running it on a linux system.
phf: are you running it on a linux system? because ~if and only if~ that you are you have to bring something extra into the picture