log☇︎
817000+ entries in 0.579s
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Indeterminate at this time nubbins` is down a bishop though
dub: asciilifeform: in the case of the famous one, its pow bootstrapped
asciilifeform: (you need some to mine any)
asciilifeform: afaik there are crackpot 'proof of stake' altchains where seedcoin actually exists
jborkl: I guess the hippies and Amish would like seedcoin, renewable and all
asciilifeform: seedcoin? is that the last little bit you needed to plant next year's btc crop, that the Reds confiscate when they dekulakize you?
jborkl: Heh, maybe he could apply to seedcoin
jborkl: Really one of you guys needs to help. He is broke
asciilifeform: 'The Man Who Was Thursday' !
BingoBoingo: benkay: Best to assume we all are
benkay: who's the NSA stooge in -assets?
asciilifeform: wait till they learn about bitcoin...
benkay: then some new poor soul gets hired on to the team, can't figure out why no 'work' is happening and starts writing reports.
benkay: their superiors look at the proposal and say "sure. nice distraction."
benkay: i find that the more plausible story.
dub: you know this is all about some NSA kids justifying getting paid to play games
dub: I am the god of FPS
jborkl: Pwned.nl ftw for the NSA
dub: no wonder they are after me
nubbins`: son, uncle sam wants to have a word
jborkl: You suck camper, I am going to report you to them in and get you banned faggot
jborkl: Counterstrike, how fucking out of date is that doc
asciilifeform: This is pure gold: "Monitoring strategy games like Counterstrike can be an effective way to track individual skill levels in firearms, tactical operations, group cohesion, leadership, etc."
asciilifeform: authored by literature team at Meta-NSA.
asciilifeform: gotta be fictional, to discredit other leaks
benkay: nubbins`: there was something making the rounds about spies spying on spies in SL.
nubbins`: next thing we'll find out they were the flying dicks in SL
asciilifeform: in other news: latest word is that NSA spies on... WoW.
benkay: oh and also mircea_popescu there's some secret padding in the call collateral requirements not mentioned in the faq, correct?
benkay: writing a thing
benkay: mircea when future lot sizes change we can expect the collateral required for puts to change at the same time riiiiight?
nubbins`: what, again with the docking?
kanzure: maybe our two attentions can merge together
benkay: methinks the lady etc etc
kanzure: benkay: i have a high capacity for attention i think
mircea_popescu: i dunno, i thought i'm overdoing irc. i guess not.
benkay: that's a lot of things across which to split ones attention
kanzure: and it's useful to communicate with the people i work with ?
kanzure: because i actually contribute to these projects?
mircea_popescu: why the fuck would you be in 200 chans
kanzure: dub: it seems to be 200
nubbins`: if anyone wants to play along, grab a board
nubbins`: ah, that makes more sense
kanzure: [freenode] -!- Cannot join to channel #bitcoin-pit (You have joined to too many channels)
Ogedei: whats the chan with only ticker again?
asciilifeform: no turning hardware straight into match outcomes, there.
BingoBoingo: Though I imagine some people would spend more to get Rybka
BingoBoingo: Seems like for chess 0.06 BTC per competitor is roughly the cost of turning match outcomes into coinflips this year http://www.hiarcs.com/pc-chess-deep-junior.htm
asciilifeform: when you can use machines at your leisure, it's a somewhat different game that you're playing.
benkay: asciilifeform: that's wrapping up human skill at game with human skill at computer
nubbins`: unsurprisingly, it came down to the software and not the cpu.
asciilifeform: think 'knife fight' rather than 'boxing match.'
asciilifeform: a 'strong human' in this context is simply one who knows how to use his machine correctly.
ozbot: The Chess Master and the Computer by Garry Kasparov | The New York Review of Books
benkay: "Weak human + machine + better process was superior to a strong computer alone and, more remarkably, superior to a strong human + machine + inferior process."
nubbins`: i mean, it was only within the past 5-10 years that checkers was solved
asciilifeform: nubbins`: correct. there's been some brouhaha about go ai, but it pertains mainly to games on undersized boards.
nubbins`: it's too complex
ozbot: PUGBOT - Brought to you by the Community
dub: http://pugbot.com/ should be trivial to plug btc into that
benkay: could always implement turn time limits
asciilifeform: let the race 'be to the swiftest.'
asciilifeform: no point in 'policing' the arena for AI, i've met people who play rather like machines.
dub: used to play cstrike pick up games organised by an IRC bot
benkay: a chaotic upper zone with good players and good computers but bad process with bad players and good computers and good process, to mangle a thing someone once said.
dub: you could do an irc/wot/pug4btc type thing
benkay: potentially a third tier too, augmented pros.
benkay: parsed "the former" as referring to games of skill
asciilifeform: go would produce a dual-tiered situation, with a population of idiots running machines against each other, and pros who clean them out at their leisure.
asciilifeform: in case that wasn't clear.
asciilifeform: go works. chess devolves to AI contest.
benkay: why does chess work in this scenario and not go?
asciilifeform: because a serious player can beat the state-of-the-art machine there.
benkay: and how the heck does bitcoin play into either go or chess?
asciilifeform: well, the former.
asciilifeform: someone could probably squeeze out a meager living from cracking these chumpatrons.
asciilifeform: from both sides of the stand.
mircea_popescu: there does seem to be a disproportionate population of carnies in bitcoin ☟︎
asciilifeform: modern people, who've never heard of carnival games, fall for the most basic shams imaginable.
asciilifeform: of the 'faux game of skill' species.
asciilifeform: straight from the analogue meatspace world.
asciilifeform: if someone wises up, the rules will change.
asciilifeform: so he can collect the edge while appearing to be merely one of the players.
asciilifeform: since the author set the rules, he knows exactly how to optimize a rat.
asciilifeform: there is no mystery where the house edge is.
asciilifeform: and why only augmentations. let the chumps buy ratpoison for a selected enemy rat.
mircea_popescu: no way for you to verify that it doesnt seem like
benkay: it's marginally better than that
asciilifeform: aren't there quite enough of those?
asciilifeform: (Meta-NSA is the Shangri-La where they keep the real cryptographers.)
asciilifeform: i can't help but imagine some fellow at Meta-NSA, with a pill against ECDSA hidden under a flower pot in his office, laughing his arse off at these morons. ☟︎
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the motivations of people who try to bring PKI to bitcoin are no secret.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It almost seems like the Bitcoin Dev's "X.509 is perfect for signing payment requests" in spite of all of the times CAs have signed certs purporting to be controlled by one party while actually having been controlled by another party. The biggest difference is the FreeBSD devs might actually not know better.
asciilifeform: 'good cop / bad cop.' old as time.
asciilifeform: good, i don't need to draw a picture.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yeah the now feed the borked RNG data through a borked schneier algo
asciilifeform: notice what they did instead.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: that one was a double whammy of sorts
BingoBoingo: And FreeBSD makes the sane decision to tell Intel and Via's hardware RNGs to STFU http://arstechnica.com/security/2013/12/we-cannot-trust-intel-and-vias-chip-based-crypto-freebsd-developers-say/
jurov: ofc :) just to have something to compare