log☇︎
80800+ entries in 0.589s
a111: Logged on 2016-11-16 00:35 Framedragger: first round, okay, but other rounds supposedly follow later, and the conflict case can be replicated, i would think, and hence the system supports conflicts, structurally, which need to be addressed one way or another.. dunno.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-16 00:34 Framedragger: because it would be great if WoT-gns worked like other WoT things, i.e., via the enforcement of WoT itself.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-16#1568033 << i really don't see that past the "sunrise" so to call it there's any need to give a shit. i would not negrate anyone for registering "someone else's" domain after the system comes online and anyone can register whatever. i do think it's pretty idiotic to bring it online empty ; i won't support a system that tries that ; and i think the comparison with mining/premining is entirely w ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: i want something that works for me. if it works for others - good for them. if it doesn't, woe on them.
mircea_popescu: i don't give a shit.
mircea_popescu: i'm sorry ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1567999 << no it's not. the fact that i extend you the courtesy to not register "loper-os" at the sunrise event doesn't mean jack shit in that context. ethereum tried to change things AFTER. hardly the same thing.\ ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-15 19:30 Framedragger: unless the latter kind of situation is to be covered by your clarification, to quote, "I imagine like any serious country, we first handle the claims of the elite privately. "
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1567990 << that's exactly what i mean. gentlemen among gentlemen and otherwise fuck the peasants. ☝︎
shinohai: pfffft ... I'm willing to bet there are plenty of people still running 12.04 ... could be slipped into a dirty emulator rom or somesuch
mircea_popescu: i like how it's always "but nobody would do this because we already did and reasons"
Framedragger: first round, okay, but other rounds supposedly follow later, and the conflict case can be replicated, i would think, and hence the system supports conflicts, structurally, which need to be addressed one way or another.. dunno. ☟︎
Framedragger: because it would be great if WoT-gns worked like other WoT things, i.e., via the enforcement of WoT itself. ☟︎
Framedragger: and mp said "da fuck, I'm not going to support a dns system where some dork registered trilema", which confused me, so yeah, clarification needed, i think.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-15 23:29 trinque: who needs blanket policy when he's free to choose and I'm free to negrate him?
Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1568014 << that's what i thought as well - i queried along the same lines: "say someone with a valid GPG key rushes to register trilema.com in the Republican DNS before yourself. I suppose that is all well and good, and you negrating the key would only be appropriate in the instance of that person ☝︎
ben_vulpes: i for one think that names should be mined.
trinque: who needs blanket policy when he's free to choose and I'm free to negrate him? ☟︎
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: re: the "ownership" of trilema, i'd like to know who you suspect would even try to register trilema.com
a111: Logged on 2016-11-15 19:30 Framedragger: unless the latter kind of situation is to be covered by your clarification, to quote, "I imagine like any serious country, we first handle the claims of the elite privately. "
a111: Logged on 2016-11-13 17:38 mircea_popescu: Framedragger note that i don't particularly see the value in restrictioning anything. in principle anyone should be able to register a domain for his bitcent - even if he puts no gpg key in there. he just won't be able to admin it, big whoop./
Framedragger: also, http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161115/#622 << http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-13#1566745 but this may be an issue in semantics/definitions only, i suppose. ☝︎
Framedragger: unless the latter kind of situation is to be covered by your clarification, to quote, "I imagine like any serious country, we first handle the claims of the elite privately. " ☟︎☟︎
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i (or someone more credible, or whoever) registers "trilema.com" under their own leigt key. what nao?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i guess in your view, perhaps no viable conflicts would arise in gns? say, two owners of two distinct pgp keys claiming ownership of "apple.com". some kind of due process is to take place, presumably
Framedragger: right. how would the process of resolving conflicts in gns look like, though? (i'm just curious, i.e. question is well-intentioned, not troll-y)
mircea_popescu: the imperial idiots implemented this as dns, which is stupid and braindamaged, but the implementation being flawed doesn't remove the fundamental reasons, which is why i say - read that damned rfc, the things i didn't mock are actually correct.
mircea_popescu: everyone-who-participates-in-this-conversation is the reference point. evidently, if we are talking about uh i dunno, star trek, the names have to be known and shared. spock can't be the woman with the nice ass. how does one join this conversation ? there's two options - either the usian school of "don't loo kit up - guess, fropm "context", what "it could be" or else - look it up damned it. to look it up, it has to be looked
Framedragger: i guess that's a given assumption in #trilema
Framedragger: so the notion of a local symbol frame/context will be retained inevitably, is that what you're saying mircea_popescu? (in which case i'd add that gns-the-implementation could even probably be used - on each interested user's machine - as a local name system. etc.)
mircea_popescu: (yes you can rape the woman instead, which is in this sense deliberate, but i daresay not the same thing)
mircea_popescu: i for instance don't credit the english-online-dictionaries opinions as to the meaning of english words.
mircea_popescu: if tomorrow i wanna call barack obama hussein bahamas, i'll call him that and he can cry me a river over it.
asciilifeform: if i knew how to separate cognition and fizz, i'd be dictating terms to republic of california from dirigible fleet.
mircea_popescu: (note that for the needs of this discussion - i know because grandfather told me is a nec plus ultram of buluceala. it's how people know the earth is flat.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i would say the gns as discussed on trilema drastically reduces it.
Framedragger: i still have a reserved name ('indra', as in reflexive "indra's net" / indrajāla) for my mega decentralized permanent content concept, baked when i was maybe 18 yo lol. in fairness, "indra's net" is a l33t name that i hope i will use some time.
asciilifeform: buluceala, i will posit, is a Bad Thing, like car wrecks on public thoroughfare, or resistive loss in electric lines.
mircea_popescu: no pgp involved for instance. but sure, i guess.
mircea_popescu: i never bothered with ANY of this shit until bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: i do not.
asciilifeform: (at any rate, i suspect that everyone here has a similar set of ~useless notes from last decade)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: note that this was the laughable piece, 'majority votes', i had nfi how to cut the knot of sybil etc. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: that's not how it works. i got this local key-data store ; the box can't even connect via dns port.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1567838 << in point of fact we don't must use it, i've been happy with local name table for what, half a year ? not so much a matter of this as - it's there. might as well infect and "ruin" it for teh imperial idjits. ☝︎
trinque: mircea_popescu: aha I can see it.
asciilifeform: (see link, i narrowly missed drawing wot and whole shebang, through sheer thick-headedness )
asciilifeform: to go upstack, i see nothing wrong with 'we all agree on how arithmetic works, do business with keys, sex -- with people'
trinque: mircea_popescu: no. once I know a key I can interact with deedbot if I can make it there over gossipd peerings
scriba: Logged on 2016-11-15: [18:34:31] <asciilifeform> when you make use of something, successfully, you inevitably come to rely on it. this is a cost. i am still paying the cost for having used a python library in 2013.
Framedragger: i guess counterpoint would be http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161115/#456
trinque: I would expect that if I am on gossipnet and I want loper-os, I ask my friends if they have a key which they call loper-os
asciilifeform: same way i have long division.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: fact is, central table of anything at all, is a throne, i simply do not see the 'win' from retaining the throne.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: i thought so too, but basically mircea_popescu's idea would dispatch of the whole 'dns zone' concept. there would be no 'domain' per se. dns clients could still query 'loper-os', but the server would be a simple table, with no understanding of zones or significance of "."
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-15#1567823 << every system you ever use will have a dictionary ; and every system you ever used in the past had a dictionary. this is unavoidable. you prefer one over another, dictionaries, systems, that's your problem. but if you read the linked rfc - there's parts they get right, right before the parts they fuck up that i underlined in red. ☝︎
Framedragger: personally i don't see why there could not be a GNS which would be separate from commitments to specific transport standards. have a table, have a transport layer, swap the layer later. i may be naive in regards to the "swap" step, i guess... :/
asciilifeform: unless i misunderstand, thread was about mircea_popescu's idea of recycling traditional dns, but using own root
trinque: it's kinda "I will not take this land until it is flying my flag already"
Framedragger: but i speculate.
Framedragger: so, yeah. and i'm no longer convinced it would redundant, in the sense that when gossipd cometh, one must throweth the 'general name system' away
Framedragger: i don't have a strong opinion, i wonder what mircea_popescu thinks. i guess the answer would also focus on the "while we still must use it" aspect
a111: Logged on 2016-11-15 18:19 asciilifeform: which is why i'm not terribly thrilled with strategic retreats like 'let's keep dns but with our root' etc.
Framedragger: i see what you mean.
asciilifeform: central namespaces are a dumb idea. i regard it as my duty to put this on record.
trinque: I call that guy "shithead" and you call him "sir"
trinque: not what I'm asking
Framedragger: trinque: i meant as a generic string - trying to avoid the term 'domain' as the latter is not accurate..
Framedragger: re. plaintext for all NSAs to read, sure, there's that. goes against gossipd's "no free bits for the unauthenticated" i guess. but again, this can be wrapped in gossipd later.
asciilifeform: when you make use of something, successfully, you inevitably come to rely on it. this is a cost. i am still paying the cost for having used a python library in 2013.
Framedragger: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161115/#440 << sure, i guess. (note though that this effort would get rid of dns server code, though. and it does not obstruct one from later patching dns client code / rewriting a much more simplistic name query client.)
asciilifeform: and i still agree.
asciilifeform: earlier this year, i wanted to fit symmetric cipher into trb, and get rid of 'blackholing' etc. but mircea_popescu correctly pointed out that it is the Wrong Thing to cement a pseudoscientific abortion like AES (or ANY OTHER known symmetric cipher!) into place
Framedragger: asciilifeform: "it was interesting learning experience in that i never understood how ~motherfucking reliable~ an ordinary keyboard must be before it feels usable." very interesting! nice project. (ppm == pixels per meter?)
asciilifeform: i will confess, that i judge any such effort first of all by one metric -- how many lines of jwz c code it EXTIRPATES
Framedragger: asciilifeform: which is, i think, not a complete retreat, so to speak
asciilifeform: which is to say, one or two 'wtf, i pressed / and got F15' every day
asciilifeform: Framedragger: some months ago i restored a vintage keyboard, with capacitative matrix (contactless) which needed new controller and analogue calibration etc. it was interesting learning experience in that i never understood how ~motherfucking reliable~ an ordinary keyboard must be before it feels usable.
asciilifeform: which is why i'm not terribly thrilled with strategic retreats like 'let's keep dns but with our root' etc. ☟︎
asciilifeform: the one problem, shared with every other piece like this that i know of, is that it omits the obvious cure, which is not simply to thermonuke the crud, but to kill the horse it rode in on, and the rider, and to burn the field that it fed on, and salt it.
Framedragger: this reminds of james mickens' rants on 'mobile' and 'modern web', e.g. (JS - i've linked to it once iirc, under the bdsm social board discussion): http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/mickens/files/towashitallaway.pdf (html: http://fd.mkj.lt/stuff/towashitallaway.html - for logs)
Framedragger: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161115/#349 << ohmygerd how i hate this shit. it ends with "to quote text in screenshot of screenshot, i'll make a screenshot". tumblr at least retains/-ed the concept of a "quote as a block of text". wouldn't be surprised if not for long.
mircea_popescu: i'm telling you, tail.
mircea_popescu: hey, i'm sure they're paying him to be there.
asciilifeform: aha, i also dropped jaw
asciilifeform: this is what i meant when said 'theoretically - yes'
mircea_popescu: but i am no db expert.
mircea_popescu: i think some magic could be had where you put all the new items into a new table then merge the two tables where hashes don't match.
asciilifeform: and ever power switch, on every box i've had since my 'cyrix' 486-dx, was promisetronic.
mircea_popescu: but javascript is specifically dedicated to doing dumb shit like "i'll pretend to be you - and fill the clipboard"
asciilifeform: promisetronic 'verifications' are an eternal plague among the stupid. consider even the timestamp in gpg (to make the phuctor sig from last night's qntra, i used ordinary gpg 1.4, with patch). what business does a userland proggy have asking for the wall clock time without permission? if i want it to have a time, i will pipe 'date' to it...
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah, i guess can't be certain. doesn't really fit for sure..
mircea_popescu: Framedragger re automation angle - i dunno, i suppose varying amounts of elbow grease could be employed, entirely as a mechanical gearbox, in lieu of actual automation. just it doesn't fit in my head - the same people who wouldn't read ten words would then go through the motions, orders of magnitude more complex, of making screenshots etc ?
asciilifeform: i picture that even this gets old. (though i will still buy ticket!)
asciilifeform: at this point i cannot think of what these 'bees' might be good for, they are not even bees, but roaches, there is no roach candle wax afaik.
asciilifeform: reminds me, more than anything, of that time, half decade ago now, that i bought some 'google ads' for my robot control product
mircea_popescu: anyway. i don't think they wasted my time nor do i think myself the victim. fact is i can turn them into value if i so decide, much like the beekeeper can make candles and honeycomb if he wants. and if i don't want - i just don't make a fiverr account. not like they can do anything whatsoever, they can't even elect hillary.
Framedragger: i see what you mean. now it's a closed bubble/system for them, sort of...
mircea_popescu: but these kids, who cobble not sandals but the very words... they're stuck in monoband world. and i honestly see no possible solution.
asciilifeform: and l0l!!1 is THIS why i'm getting arsebook hits on dulap..?