log☇︎
78900+ entries in 0.515s
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the problem is that 'normal people' drivers rely on there being a working pci bus, interrupt controller, etc. stack in the os, rather than programmed-bare-io
asciilifeform: and i bought a dozen cards of various vintage.
asciilifeform: btw i dug out, long ago, a crackpot implementation in one 'baremetal os' (actual title) of supposedly-it. it dun work on any actual iron i was able to buy.
mircea_popescu: but yes, trinque has it, the discussion really is about what a db would call "the disk data format".
asciilifeform: btw if anyone can come up with a WORKING 'crab' (realtek) nic driver in pure long mode asm, we can have, e.g., scheme on iron, and usefully so, in a couplea weeks. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: writing drivers is two things : a) write the fw ; or b) call nvidia faggots on a mailing list. ☟︎
trinque: it's just a question of how much OS you want to eat, and all is a fine answer
trinque: this is an entirely reasonable approach and yields the same things; I would call it a db.
asciilifeform: by choosing a different fs to plant the thing on
davout: a valuable advantage of relational storage is that *the user decides* what to index
asciilifeform: the algo where you 'wallet' by keeping privkey AND index-of-last-block-where-this-addr-was-input-or-output are kept around, works until , in 'typical human' fashion, [l]user asks for 'fried ice', and wants MOAR, e.g., 'oooh i found a privkey in my underpants drawer, how much is it worth' or 'i want to keep priv on 2+ boxes' or, or.
mircea_popescu: the wallet ~is~ that, yes. problem is humanity doesn't mesh well with computability. ppl want a wallet./
mircea_popescu: trinque my comment is re a more general case, not just txn, because i am confident you'll end up stuck with a more general problem in practice.
trinque: -or- the wallet is already a catastrophically shitty implementation of this
asciilifeform: btw, p=?=np esoterica aside, 'never say never' in re algorithmic complexities. it is possible to make a number-theoretic 'blockchain' where you check for unspentness by euclid's gcd, for instance. many things are theoretically possible. but this thread afaik is about traditional bitcoin.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 19:57 mircea_popescu: davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact
mircea_popescu: somewhere there, 12 to 25tb worth of indices for a 1tb worth of blockchain.
trinque: not if you have a reliable index that can find every reference to that address
asciilifeform: a full, canonical 'how much is this addr worth' requires O(N) chain walk.
asciilifeform: think for a minute
trinque: that is a trivial SQL query over transactions
asciilifeform: trinque: this is a physical impossibility
trinque: asciilifeform: I cannot go calculate the current balance of a given address without walking the chain
mircea_popescu: you add 50 hours of b, so you made a very bad trade-off.
mircea_popescu: davout there are two different items here. a) how much first-time development work is saved (which your proposal addresses) and b) how much maintenance is required to then maintain the infreastructure that saved first-time development work. in the case of bitcoin, b) is the important factor because it scales exponentially : when a is 100 hours, b is 10k hours, substracting an hour of a at the cost of 50% less b means in fact ☟︎
davout: if it's "the one design to rule them all" were there any objections to simply using a normalized relational design?
davout: trinque: i was thinking more along the lines of "different use case classes might warrant a couple different pluggable storage designs"
trinque: one implements a fast in memory key value store, the other transactions but no structural constraints, ...
mircea_popescu: davout it'd help if there were a good design, how's that.
asciilifeform: davout: 'Вам - взлет!' (Анатолий Маркович Маркуша.) it's a childrenz' b00k
davout: trinque: are you saying there should be a single design?
mircea_popescu: kinda why the bitcoinfs discussion has been steaming on a low fire for like a year now.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you wouldn't sit in a kindergartener's chair, wouldja
asciilifeform: programming would perhaps be a similarly honourable profession as piloting, with similar calibre of people, if only it were possible to kill yourself just as easily with mistreated computer as with airplane.
davout: 'human factors' is a thing
mircea_popescu: i recently enjoyed a very credible thai whore. it was quite unsettling ; i never felt so much like i'm fucking a little boy in my life.
asciilifeform: davout: i recently enjoyed a very old b00k on pilot mistakes
asciilifeform: it is the sad peculiarity of life of the programmer that a proggy 'works perfectly' -- until not
davout: asciilifeform: aha, like 'a decent thai whore' ?
trinque ran the golang one for a long time
asciilifeform: there was a curated list of these at one time
asciilifeform: iirc there was even a ~decent one (as far as anyone could tell) in python, in 2012
asciilifeform: why would i give half a fuck what some rando thinks bitcoin is !
asciilifeform: davout: chances are there is a crackpot pseudoimplementation of bitcoin in every language, cobol, malbolge, befunge, by this point. they are of 0 interest because not trb !
asciilifeform: sorta where i wanted to go with 'shiva', gimme a console
a111: Logged on 2016-12-06 17:05 trinque: as far as the lying wire is concerned, that's solved by a different gadget
mircea_popescu: don't sweat it alf, eventually there will be a fork.
asciilifeform: well yes, in the literal martian scenario, 'what do i do if a shell hits my trench?' 'jump up twenty metres and scatter yourself around'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, i complain that you construct a problem that necessarily may not have a solution.
mircea_popescu: but it contains a counterfactual of the nature of magical unicorn.
asciilifeform: it's a thought experiment ! of course it contains a counterfactual. no one afaik is dumb enough to actually do this.
asciilifeform: it isn't magical in any sense, you and i can do it right now -- e.g., mine an alternate block #300,000 and feed it to a cornered node.
asciilifeform: davout: see the mitm point further down in the thread. a ~simulated~ yottahash is just as good for the purpose.
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585962 <<< in this case there's quite a few other ways in which the can fuck you ☝︎
asciilifeform: g terror groups, but could punish people who fight on the other side, according to analysts. ... “How can I pose a threat to Denmark and other countries by being a soldier in an official army that Denmark trains and supports directly in the fight against the Islamic State?” she wrote on Facebook after officials took her passport. The potential 6-month prison sentence stems from the travel ban violation. Palani admitted to traveli
asciilifeform: in other monkeystans, 'Joanna Palani, a 23-year-old Danish woman, was facing a 6-month prison sentence after fighting alongside Kurdish peshmerga forces in Iraq and Syria, The Local reported. Palani had her passport confiscated last year after she returned to Denmark, and was hit with a one-year travel ban, for violating the nation's so-called "foreign fighter" rules. The regulations were aimed at stopping Danish citizens from joinin
asciilifeform: evidently d00d drank a bit too much, dropped some loose lips re heiling tritler or such.
asciilifeform: s for a lieutenant colonel and a two-star general with 30 years in the Army. And it slams the door on what was once a promising career. Army Secretary Eric Fanning approved the board's recommendation and made the final decision. The spokesman was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly so spoke anonymously.'
asciilifeform: meanwhile, 'An Army major general has been stripped of his stars and forced out of the military after a 30-year military career because of a long extramarital affair and "swinger" lifestyle. An Army spokesman says Maj. Gen. David Haight was demoted by three steps to the rank of lieutenant colonel, a steep and rare downgrade for a senior officer. The demotion will cost him more than $40,000 in annual retirement pay, based on pay scale
mircea_popescu: we're discussing what software runs on black box. you propose "hey, it's trying to cut gangrene in such a way as to do maximal damage to enemies". yes, this may be, as a generous interpretation. the more common interpretation however is to say there's exactly no cutting.
mircea_popescu: anyway, you're right in that the "free world" is significantly impeded in sane / reasonable reaction by the unwarranted, wholly baseless conceit that "all people matter", so they can't go on tv and tell every woman she has a week to find a master after which will be packed on catle ship and auctioned off in iran.
mircea_popescu: and as per http://trilema.com/2016/and-they-wont-fucking-yield/ the absolutely imbecile generation STILL wants to pretend the conversation is about how racist it is to not allow faggots to "marry" ; rather than about how idiotic it is to pretend russia is an enemy and africa's an ally ; or that deindustrialization is a reasonable response to anything.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/fP5Ce >> 'Trump’s insistence on channeling Putin’s propaganda may reflect a more permanent and creepier mindset that refuses to see Russia as a foe of the West. If the latter, how far will this go — blocking sanctions? Acceding to Russian aggression? The suspicion that Trump is Putin’s lapdog has cast a shadow over his secretary of state nominee, who is distinguished only by his chumminess with Putin.' << t
BingoBoingo: <a111> Logged on 2016-12-19 18:17 mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform << Qntra is available
asciilifeform: eh mircea_popescu probably earned the place a spot in target grid
mircea_popescu: if anyone wants to evacuate to ba i'll get you a place to stay.
mircea_popescu: so actual man made global warming by jan 15th is a respectable 1% or somesuch as it stands right now.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to be fair here : the russians have no interest in waiting ; putin might be uncharacteristically meek, but in general a half dozen us ambassadors starting with the resident in manilla within the next week-10days is perfectly possible. at which point obama actually having the gall to call natl emergency and set aside the transfer of power is not entirely inconceivable. after which the russians WILL sink all the us carr ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: mats: it's flipped to 'spoke with kako in past month' gear, still, takes a while to move it
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:17 mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform
asciilifeform: it still isn't clear to me what'd be lost by considering, e.g., blocks that happened a proper, physical year ago, not-in-rom.
mircea_popescu: except of course there isn't a lot of usfilm agit-footage about how checksum deterred bad white guy.
mircea_popescu: there's no requirement to show ~you~ have a safe heaven in order for something to be law
asciilifeform: (or rather, whether there can be such a thing as a mechanical test for 'am i in an alley')
asciilifeform: so he picks today's, say. and so what if he needs entire year to come up with an orphanator for it. a year from now -- he can feed it to 'in a cave' victims.
asciilifeform: a mitmer has, theoretically, ~infinite~ time to munge any particular block of his choice
asciilifeform: the real question is whether any type of checkpointing is really a permanent pill against this.
asciilifeform: so it is not obvious that 'race -- to the swiftest' is correct answer, anyone who can stuff a node into a solipsist cave, can replay time and orphan early blocks, if there is nothing like 'checkpoint'.
asciilifeform: where history happened a certain way and blocks <300k or what it was, are physically unorphanable
mircea_popescu: yes, once said martians appear you can make the forced mistake of a or the force mistake of b.
mircea_popescu: it isn't a choice.
mircea_popescu: if your "choice" manifests itself only after they ask the question, it is improper to call it a choice.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'choice' in the sense of that you're stuck choosing how to operate a node.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:19 asciilifeform: it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585887 << it is very wrong, on the level of braindage wrong, to imagine that there can be such a thing as an ex post facto choice. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: mats us ambassador in manilla sleeping with a buttplug.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:10 asciilifeform: using this ^ method, it was -- and remains -- possible to operate a useful node sans ethernet plug.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585867 << fyi i successfully used this method to get the node somewhere into 200k block height on a airgapped libretto by transferring blocks over rsr232/ZMODEM. couldn't get it any further because started getting weird memory issues, i suspect 1.6gb is not enough.. ☝︎
asciilifeform: it is not such a simple thing, ben_vulpes . you can choose which game to play, by some rules -- they own, by others -- they do not. ☟︎
asciilifeform: iirc we had a thread with mircea_popescu , who remarked that it is not obviously wrong to 'let'em'
mats: have you ever considered part-time work as a crackpot columnist, asciilifeform ☟︎
ben_vulpes: isn't that sanity check "show me a block with a higher diff and lineage back to the genesis block"?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i have nfi why you and mod6 did not pick it for a release, can only answer for myself. yes, the hardcoded header checksums thing is ridiculous. but no, there is such a thing as a historic, immutable planet earth blockchain, and trb ought to include default-on sanity check of ~some~ kind for long-ago blocks.
asciilifeform: using this ^ method, it was -- and remains -- possible to operate a useful node sans ethernet plug. ☟︎
asciilifeform: i even had it eat a blockchain that mircea_popescu gave me, from some box he had, iirc, continuously ran since the old days
mircea_popescu: there were at least a dozen blocks including breaking txns. at the time.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 14:30 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585556 << i dun get it, is it at any point unclear to reader how to get in contact with the coauthors?? there is a big, fat 'contact' button, that is not enough ??
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585810 << asciilifeform didn't you do a whole run of eatblock? 'deterministic sync'? ☝︎
asciilifeform: elsewhere, in nearby monkeystans, https://archive.is/5Q1U8 >> 'Venezuela’s president said Sunday that the sudden decision to scrap the country’s most-used currency bill was an economic triumph over the country’s enemies even as the government sent troops and police to cities where riots and looting broke out over the measure. In a national radio and television broadcast, Nicolas Maduro said his abrupt action had flooded the cou
asciilifeform: 'But the experts could not think of another example of a president-elect continuing with any private security after Election Day, when Secret Service protection expands dramatically for the winner. In fact, most candidates drop any outside security the moment they’re granted Secret Service protection. Trump’s spending on private security, on the other hand, actually increased after he was granted Secret Service protection in Nove