log☇︎
78200+ entries in 0.046s
asciilifeform: imho 'sane fpga' is closest thing to 'philosopher's stone' accessible with current tech.
mircea_popescu: all these lofty considerations aside...
asciilifeform: not if they're 5cents and you can matrix'em together.
mircea_popescu: that's why town is tight and village loose.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-17 18:54 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if we had any fab capacity to speak of, these'd be the priority items : 1) large homogeneous fpga 2) otp roms 3) 1+2
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 15:48 mircea_popescu: however, before you make dies you gotta know what you put in ; and i know of no other way to find out.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-04#1847498 << iirc i answered this in the past, but this thread makes it even moar obvious what the pill is : make a hypertrophied ice40 (i.e. homogeneous lattice of gates.) with these, can bake alt-juniper, alt-pc, crypto, pretty much anyffing you like. ☝︎
asciilifeform: however i suspect that 'alt-juniper' would be small change, if we had fab friends, oughta go straight to general-purpose washington-free comp.
asciilifeform: the miner asic derps, somehow pulled this off
asciilifeform: esp. if you're biznis genius and can talk'em into 'you get % of the winnings' in exch for discounts etc
mircea_popescu: or three.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is almost certainly possible to razor a zero or even two, from the 'ratecard', if you can make friends in cn (or even tw, or kr)
mircea_popescu: however, before you make dies you gotta know what you put in ; and i know of no other way to find out. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, part of the reason i've been working on getting some chinese ppls is that i entirely don';t believe single die fabbing is as expensive today as you think.
mircea_popescu: if it can process 100Gp/s rather than juniper's mahahahaybe 10Gp, nobody cares it eats a kw.
asciilifeform: well yes, i've wanted 1 for ages. but if you add up the cost of a dozen of these, you could instead get equiv fabbed into single die.
mircea_popescu: actually, i was thinking, the tiny ices you use could be an intermediate step -- think alf, instead of fabric-of-transistors, fabric-of-ice
asciilifeform: so we want to make and sell a cray-1 ?
mircea_popescu: that was the idea yes, acabinet.
asciilifeform: 1k of these will eat 5kWatt.
asciilifeform: it is also pretty cramped sizewise (recall, i was not able to fit a single 4kbit adder into it)
mircea_popescu: but you can have 1k of these lined up.
asciilifeform: the ice40 tops out at 250MHz (and drops rapidly when you fill it up, from switch fabric propagation delay)
mircea_popescu: so work with tiny ones.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 15:27 asciilifeform: trinque: 'competition' box routes 1G/s from 48 jacks, daisy-chains with 10GB/s snakes, compiles ip filter rules into 1mil+ gate fpga fabric. how do i bake a sucks-less without large fpga ? ( we dun have large fpga, tho we do have working tiny ones )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: entirely so, but these won't http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-04#1847426 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 15:14 asciilifeform: ( 'industrial' telco gear is pretty much 'bsd box with array of GB nics soldered in' + some shitware )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-04#1847373 << i got a bsd box right here btw ; cost me nothing, took in as junk. ☝︎
asciilifeform: if you want 'modern' (Gb/s+) throughputs, it aint 'ada lines', but transistors. coupla mil of'em.
mircea_popescu: this doesn't sound like more than a few hundred adalines.
asciilifeform: thing needs to eat packets, parse fields, sort'em into tables, parallelize lookups ( and below all of this, do such things as driving the sdram , the nic PHYs , shuttle data b/w processors )
asciilifeform: would need 1) fab capability 2) substantial time, unless mircea_popescu has a coupla qualified pairs of hands up his sleeve to assist
mircea_popescu: if i've learned anything about you over the years is that you're absolutely never right as to what anything costs.
mircea_popescu: wtf does that mean ?
asciilifeform: not with the currently available means, no
asciilifeform: i suspect even reddit can use a clock, tell diff b/w 10G/s router and 1M/s
mircea_popescu: we have TWO metallic squares ; and ours have holes in them!
mircea_popescu: looking at the pics reddit can't tell the difference.
asciilifeform: cuz we can't afford to bake'em yet.
asciilifeform: they dun ~own~ fab, of course, just as google doesn't. they contract the fab.
mircea_popescu: a ty
mircea_popescu: and no, they don't own a special-nic-foundry.
mircea_popescu: i dunno what the fuck you think juniper is ; but as a factual matter juniper is the result of exactly this conversation among dumber people ~15 years ago. ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 100% they also BUY the gear.
trinque: (and is BingoBoingostan buying top shelf?)
mircea_popescu: seems to me eminently beatable.
asciilifeform: i must repeat, that i'd be lying if i claimed that i knew how to build a box that throws packets at even 1/5th the rate of the cheapest juniper, out of off-the-shelf components.
trinque: gotta demo to sell these things, and gotta know what causes them pain to know what to demo
asciilifeform: i admit i dun grasp, why, having already fronted 500k to usg.juniper, they would entertain a 'try my homemade router plz'
mircea_popescu: dude. you don't have the box.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: let's do a 0cost experiment, why dontcha float the idea to the dc people, see reaction. ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what means 'test' here ? they'll put customer traffic through it instead of juniper ?
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, BingoBoingo you ARE making cozy with dc tech people rite ? taking them out to smoke & crimping them to pot or w/e it is they do socially there ?
mircea_popescu: so, you're paying good money to have BingoBoingo on the ground there ; what "on the ground means" is that he can go to dc and say "hey guise, will you test this box we make ? no charge". IF they agree, and IF you have made the tmsruniper, and IF indeed they come out of it thinking they're better off with that, THEN you can sell it for credit, and not need to do more wires. yes ?
mircea_popescu: let me make this perfectly actionable for you.
asciilifeform: the 'allow allcomers but magically filter badness' juniper thing, imho is dead end.
asciilifeform: but this already was formalized by mircea_popescu as gossipd variant.
asciilifeform: now what i ~have~ wanted to bake, for years nao, is a box with ~2~ jacks, that tests rsa sigs on specially-defined packets at line speed, and drops all the ones that dun pass. this is imho the Right Thing, for entirely curing the disease in question. ☟︎
diana_coman: from a tech point of view the trouble with "better by delta" is that you are then stuck dealing with the remaining shit anyway; but sometimes it's still the way to go
asciilifeform: trinque: 'competition' box routes 1G/s from 48 jacks, daisy-chains with 10GB/s snakes, compiles ip filter rules into 1mil+ gate fpga fabric. how do i bake a sucks-less without large fpga ? ( we dun have large fpga, tho we do have working tiny ones ) ☟︎
mircea_popescu: i dunno how he's supposed to be from odessa, don't got not a gypsy bone in his body.
trinque: asciilifeform: I think your mind is set on correctness, which blocks a pragmatic "better" which is only defined by delta with competition
mircea_popescu: more's like "cant steal ~half the gold from this bank until someone comes with a credible plan to also steal the bricks from the walls"
asciilifeform: trinque: am i thick, and mircea_popescu right ? how do i bake a 'sucks less than juniper' while being stuck with off-the-shelf nic ic ?
trinque: "can't steal and sell sov tanks because to hell with the communists" to my ears
asciilifeform: ( at least in the recent ones )
asciilifeform: open one of those junipers, there's a vlsi turd that actually does the routing.
asciilifeform: i'd luvv to do it. but to ~actually~ do it, as opposed to junkyard wars ersatz that will inevitably suck.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why would you not want to do this ?! it's beyond comprehension.
mircea_popescu: trinque can you believe these people ?!
mircea_popescu: better in that also. better in the sense that it'll use less wattage to do the same ~nothing.
asciilifeform: for one thing, if you can't fab ic, you inevitably 'hot glue konsoomer GB nics'
trinque: better in that it liberates their cash into your hand so you can goto 10
mircea_popescu: better in that it will expose pantsuit packets to us, for instance.
mircea_popescu: you keep thinking in these absolute terms. sometimes relative terms are important.
asciilifeform: if you dun have this, you build a juniper whether wanted to or not.
mircea_popescu: neveryoumind that part.
asciilifeform: for nic PHY that doesn't answer to washington magicpacket.
mircea_popescu: (for the newly born : carload of moneys "know tricks". right.)
asciilifeform: unless i misunderstand somewhere, this needs ic fab.
mircea_popescu: juniper w/o the carload of monkeys.
mircea_popescu: and without the hotglue gb nics and without the derpy fpga "we dunno how to use things".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so we're talking , approx, 'juniper but w/out the ftmeade magic key' ?
asciilifeform: the buyer's entire objective is to scratch a usg-kowtow itch by blowing those six figs on 'best practice' witch repellent.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-04 15:07 mircea_popescu: diana_coman can i get you behind this "iptables are for amateurs" line ?
mircea_popescu: this has the essential veblen good blessing, being a hardware box.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-23 06:28 mircea_popescu: do you understand the crystal ball problem ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-23#1774656 << thread ☝︎
mircea_popescu: since you're not using any hot glue guns, the task is suprisingly easy.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for all i know, they have a microshit antivirus also plugged in. should we then also attempt 'better one' of these as well ?
asciilifeform: it's an algorithmic problem ( i.e. fundamental ), rather than implementation.
mircea_popescu: possibly i didn't make it plain enough that SUCH AN ITEM ALREADY IS PLUGGED IN THERE ?
asciilifeform: possibly i did not clearly explain the problem with iptables then ?
mircea_popescu: plugs directly into datacenter's colocation, filters out "bad" traffic.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let's expand on this. what specific functionality would you want in such a device ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seriously, since we're apparently not selling the rockchip plant to pizarro : how about you build it and make it a "cyberflood master 9000" ?
asciilifeform: but there is no way around the 'lookup table entries cost time & space' thing
asciilifeform: some of the fancier units have fpga for filtrations
asciilifeform: ( 'industrial' telco gear is pretty much 'bsd box with array of GB nics soldered in' + some shitware ) ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: entirely worthless junk it is, too.