log☇︎
76800+ entries in 0.507s
davout: asciilifeform: point is piloting a small plane there's just a few things to pay attention to constantly ☟︎
davout: which is also why there's yet another minimum speed for a multi engine running on a single engine
davout: also trinque is right, when losing an engine on a multi-engine you need to apply rudder to compensate for the thrust differential
trinque: easiest example that comes to mind would be losing an engine on a multi-engine plane
davout: when landing in a crosswind you basically apply rudder during the approach so that your airplane flies towards the runway, but the nose pointing to the side
trinque: davout: in a not wings horizontally level manner?
asciilifeform: davout: it was a (long-extinct) machine from the age of 'everybody will have an airplane'
davout: trinque: yeah, i have nfi how i'd land anything in a xwind without rudder
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes had a 'trains' boyhood didn't he.
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:04 asciilifeform: i have here a b00k on piloting circa 1940, and already then author insists that rudder pedals are obsolete and have killed a thousand men
davout: but obviously retracting gear isn't a good idea
asciilifeform: davout: similar book i recently read -- claimed that 'gear retract on parking lot' accidents are still a regular thing
asciilifeform: (this is a certainty if the various components do not AT ALL TIMES agree)
asciilifeform: davout, ben_vulpes , et al : it is also tricky to properly rule out the situation where split-trb node behaves like a 'split-brain patient', and external observer gets contradictory answers from it to some possible question
davout: we might en up with a libbitcoinconsensus.a
asciilifeform: they will require a -- quite complicated -- entirely new protocol ☟︎
davout: asciilifeform: i think it would be hard to make the argument that a separate binary sitting aside the node could hurt in any way
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what means 'as a bignum' ?
asciilifeform: davout: aha, separate bin. but not 'today NO miner and MAYBE SOMEDAY a new miner'
ben_vulpes: (fwiw i'm down to the last ghostly suggestion, which was to read in the hash as a bignum)
davout: make the miner a separate bin ☟︎
asciilifeform: but it is a stretch. and does not let you ignite a bitcoin overnight if transported to alpha centauri (or, more likely, earth-with-broken-mainnet) ☟︎
asciilifeform: (a result where there is ~no~ miner available, i exclude from consideration because it pisses on the R in 'trb')
davout: but i also get the other point, a lot of that complexity becomes apparent once one actually goes ahead and pops the hood
asciilifeform: (unfortunately a flow graph where every motherfucking line intersects 55 other lines, is NOT good for anything)
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595836 <<< my image is more like: "trb is this thing from which more and more is removed, until only the radioactive code consisting in ball of tightly packed hot wires which we proceed to put in a little box in which epoxy is poured, and is only interacted with as some black box" ☝︎
asciilifeform: to steal from mircea_popescu's article on subj, 'get inseminated on purpose, rather than 'because hey, there was a party, and i like to drink''
asciilifeform: a patch that has any significant 'cut-and-pasteology' -- tends to make it intractable again.
asciilifeform: the entire point in using a differ in vtron at all (as opposed to signing ENTIRE body of work) is to make the work of the reader tractable.
asciilifeform: this is why the original genesis was such a painful affair (and why it was and remains important to READ how i did it)
mircea_popescu: i suspect graph theory may have a solution for us, but it is not clear to me how.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm not entirely certain that the problem is solvable (it IS possible to define a richer diff language that permits block moves, but this also permits inscrutable-to-naked-eye patches to exist.)
davout: but if it really needs a magical difftron, can it still be said the operator can see everything with naked eye?
asciilifeform: but a differ that ~understands moves~ would be quite spiffy.
lobbes: That was a great read, thank you. Lined up exactly with my own anecdotal experiences. If I learned one thing in 'business school', it was how to properly bullshit. Only cost some 20k! Real learning didn't happen until after graduating (funnily enough, I also learned to drive -after- getting my license)
mircea_popescu: lobbes this incidentally explaisn why wikipedia is such shit - it's ~only function is a sort of open-sourced cliffnotes, and people would much prefer it to be bland and stupidly written so the teacher in class doesn't feel too inclined to think the kids' lifted material isn't his. after all he added all the flavour words in there!
asciilifeform: i can think of a few palliative pills for it, in particular to structure the deletions and insertions in separate vpatches
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is a problem yeah. will however have to be bit, wtf else to do. ☟︎
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595456 << "First, and obviously, since the majority of the students are going to get an A, he just has to do just as well/horrifically as the average student, and if they're all writing about slavery with the enthusiasm of a photocopier then if he wants an A he better buckle down and learn the truly useful skill of masking the words of a Wikipedia page. " ☝︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can think of one (nonfatal, but quite unpleasant) headache: without a less-idiotic replacement for gnudiff, the resulting cut-trb becomes very difficult to pedigree to trad-trb . sorta like the problem with the tabs/spaces cleanup proposed by mircea_popescu last year
mod6: i drew myself a diagram, helps.
mircea_popescu: but it is not required for B.T to be used only in this way or for this purpose. in principle there could be a whole pile of these, readily extended into whatever operator wants to do.
mircea_popescu: in any case : TRB.N needs write access to N.B and M.T and read access to B.B ; TRB.B needs read access to N.B and write access to B.B and B.T. it may be a good idea to also give TRB.N read access to B.T but this should be operator-knob
mircea_popescu: M.T deliberately left unspecified, it is the equivalent of today's "mempool". perhaps should also be a ring buffer like the other 3.
asciilifeform: it might be worth mircea_popescu's time to write a detailed sketch of this item.
mircea_popescu: "i have heard this transaction" is of interest to b ; not of a. "this is a transaction from a block" is of interest to a.
mircea_popescu: each b, a have one, i mean.
mircea_popescu: which mempool ? each b has one, as a queue.
asciilifeform: your 'b' : mempool+networking, 'a' -- blockchain ?
mircea_popescu: no such third was contemplated ; when discussing a proposal you are stuck, willy nilly, first understanding it and then referring it
asciilifeform: (really, a 'c', 'a' speaks blockchain and 'b' speaks mempool)
mircea_popescu: b handles the networking ; a handles the blockchain.
mircea_popescu: you do not. a speaks through b and through b only.
asciilifeform: so you end up needing a third. (supposing that you are trying to speak the old protocol, with heathens!)
a111: Logged on 2017-01-03 19:53 davout: trinque: but "must RI be a single binary?"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595690 << it actually must not be a binary. ☝︎
asciilifeform: 'requires 80% of gossipd' would be a stronger statement, but then i'd have to explain which 80
trinque: "don't talk to idiots" is a far broader problem than bitcoin
davout: ben_vulpes: when aggregating the outputs, nuke those for which a spent out is found? it sounds pretty trivial to me, am i missing something obvious?
asciilifeform: we recently had a thread, where i described how parts of phuctor are quite slow precisely because of such decoupling.
ben_vulpes: davout: what if one thread finds a tx spent that another thread finds the unspent for
trinque: asciilifeform: tx sender is just a "sendrawtxn" that eats the data from user. maybe he made the txn with other RPC calls, maybe got from elsewhere
davout: trinque: but "must RI be a single binary?" ☟︎
ben_vulpes: davout: a full rescan of the blockchain takes ~12 hours on mod6's machine
ben_vulpes: davout: i imagined this as a component of bear stone and skin knife transacting
ben_vulpes: davout: have you considered hammering a spigot in for "gimme utxo's relevant to this address"?
ben_vulpes: holy fuq nearly lost a toe on the ride in it's so cold
mircea_popescu: a shocking development.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-03 17:27 asciilifeform: i actually sat down to write a long and painfully pedantic piece about what i did, but gave up, let the diff speak for itself
mircea_popescu: by the time you drilled a hole into the head with your screwdriver...
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> why would it need torsion strength ? << Some people likely try this too late and cyanoacrylate is a poor filler material
jurov right today attempted to switch door hinge on a new fridge, wore up a shitty screw, gave up :(
mircea_popescu: it is a point oft verified in history, that if howitzer fails to solve problem it was only because not enough caliber.
mircea_popescu: this should be a story, totally. man finds love of life, is glad, convinces her, discovers it dun fit, goes back through his hero's journey to get all the various helpers to help. finally he sticks it in her among the octopi, crabs, bat wings and other fit-makers
mircea_popescu: the idea is grandiose, a lengthy telescope of adaptors used by a guy standing on a box on a chair on a desk on a stair on a rope,.
trinque: gotta be a narrow, long pipe out there that'd do
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and where do i buy a 'breaker bar' that fits 0.5mm screw.
asciilifeform: i've lost count of how many times i buy a not-the-cheapest $tool, and after 2-3 uses it crumbles into, literally, dust, and then buy 'nice' one, which half the time has been chinafied/plasticized already into very close resemblance to the el cheapo item, sometimes beyond any meaningful diff
asciilifeform: makes for quite as effective a ritual object as titanium
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> the other hypothesis that invites itself is the tlp/mp 'ceremonial object' one. the, e.g., static mat, was sold on a www with reviews, and not necessarily faux ones. many satisfied sheeples own various tools and NEVER USE, and they -- are quite happy! << Like your HDX hacksaw!!!
asciilifeform: (if you buy by the hundy - you're a gnat, and will be hitting nobody with nothing)
asciilifeform: the other hypothesis that invites itself is the tlp/mp 'ceremonial object' one. the, e.g., static mat, was sold on a www with reviews, and not necessarily faux ones. many satisfied sheeples own various tools and NEVER USE, and they -- are quite happy!
asciilifeform: i must echo the words of mircea_popescu's electric heater article, and say, that such a thing could never appear by chance, someone busted his arse to design something so malignantly anti-functional .
mircea_popescu: each had a different story of sadness, and all together they could have made a small rocket. if only their materials weren't allocated by idiots, that is.
mircea_popescu: im guessing a capacitor went. this time.
mircea_popescu: the last pair died in the lulziest of ways : it's usb powered, and it will short the usb when the sound is loud enough, lose power, then come back a half second later.
asciilifeform: in other noose, asciilifeform recently bought a 'top of the line' civilian motherboard, and as soon as being lifted from the crate, it shed a few 0805 capacitors
asciilifeform: the other thing is that i'm not entirely convinced that i was barking up a useful tree there.
asciilifeform: it was literally a week+ of sawing off #includes, nixing #ifdef's, moving blocks of code from 1,001 places and deduplicating, etc. ☟︎
asciilifeform: i actually sat down to write a long and painfully pedantic piece about what i did, but gave up, let the diff speak for itself ☟︎
mircea_popescu: for later, have a proper example of wehat these metaphors mean.
asciilifeform: it was also a demo of the utter malignant idiocy of automake (zapped! and you won't miss it, thing builds on all major unixlikes with a single 'make')
asciilifeform: re 'open sores', even a ~very~ small gadget, and in fact one that started life as a stand-alone library: mpi (bignum) piece of gpg 1.4, was quite astonishingly painful to properly saw off the kochball
asciilifeform: (chukchas and many neighbouring tribes had an entire thing where they would lower deer into a swamp, and dig him up months, sometimes years, later, and eat. apparently putrefaction toxins can be 'trained for', from childhood even. rather like strychnine.)
asciilifeform: you will have more luck recycling a rotting deer carcass in the road.
asciilifeform: none of these observations disprove a scenario where both are fingerpuppets.
mircea_popescu: bw got what, like 3k blocks past 6 months. not much of a player.
asciilifeform: a 'hello' for mircea_popescu et al.
asciilifeform: either ineptly, or wanted to leak a bit.
mircea_popescu: the fucking odds of this ? bw.com and btc.com boundry, and it really doesn't look like there's more than 18 seconds delay. so btc.com checked the block 446460 and built on it and found a block within ~15 seconds ?