log☇︎
75600+ entries in 0.566s
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: here i gotta agree, the 'allcomers can get their tx candidates evaluated' is doomed
mircea_popescu: how MUCH verification work i wish to do for the world - is my choice, not the world's.
mircea_popescu: you cvan not engage in an open ended "i will for all comers do the work of checking one cent txn against a 10 dollar blockchain".
mircea_popescu: i do, but it is also insanity.
asciilifeform: well the old code has ban(...) which instructs 'this datum was a malicious turd and i dun want no moar from that ip'
mircea_popescu: i have no idea how you maintain your mempool atm ; or if it is what you're talking about even, is it ?
asciilifeform: while i like the 'diode' aspect of this scheme, i will say that my public nodes would fall down in about three seconds, and permanently, if the primitive autobanhammer of gaviniferously-symptomatic peers were to be switched off.
mircea_popescu: (the correct solving scheme is still as i said back when we were discussing mempools, to keep track of peers (yes, by ips) and score them by the fees they bring your mempool. with this change -- that is even implementable.)
mircea_popescu: i don't think today's logic does anything ; and i don't expect carrying it forward is useful. spec does include room for trb.n to do some banning, including on the basis of passively exfiltrated data from trb.b. that a protocol for this purpose may later develop i don't dispute, but it's not included both because it's not needed and because it can't become a "dependency". it's not.
asciilifeform: (banning would, as far as i can tell, require 2way comms b/w the modules)
asciilifeform: i did
asciilifeform: what am i missing
asciilifeform: but i could think of one definitive improvement over traditional hashes: non-algebraic (see recent 'rsa padding' thread) tranform
asciilifeform: i know of 0 uses for a 'hash' where the same ~input~ is not guaranteed to produce ~same output~
ben_vulpes: i am no karman reincarnate with god's knowledge
asciilifeform: davout: different thing from what? from piloting on grid paper and with pen? i'd imagine so!
ben_vulpes: see http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=960_1477239016
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i suspect that if i start to explore this risk manifold i will have trouble not ratcheting the risk back
asciilifeform: davout: i thought motor effect could only affect roll
trinque: yeah I thought that was called yaw
trinque: yeh, what I was fumbling for
asciilifeform: davout: the place that made'em is not far from where i live, it was slowly demolished over decades
davout: asciilifeform: i'll research this ercoupe thing, seems interdasting
davout: trinque: yeah, i have nfi how i'd land anything in a xwind without rudder
trinque: anecdotally I seem to recall my dad talking about using rudder in crosswinds on large aircraft
ben_vulpes: i have only recently developed an interest in ice flugen mobiles
davout: maybe i'll understand the answer to this mystery when i become retractable gear certified!
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:04 asciilifeform: i have here a b00k on piloting circa 1940, and already then author insists that rudder pedals are obsolete and have killed a thousand men
davout: i have nfi why some airplanes allow this
asciilifeform: i'd naively think that this would've been resolved in 1930s, if not earlier, just make the levers vastly different (shapes, or lengths, and feel, etc) ☟︎
davout: yeah, i've heard some things like that too
asciilifeform: i gotta wonder why
asciilifeform: davout: similar book i recently read -- claimed that 'gear retract on parking lot' accidents are still a regular thing
asciilifeform: davout: could, theoretically, hurt, if it requires adding 100,000 lines of i/o glue logic
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i misspeak, 'as an integer'
davout: asciilifeform: i think it would be hard to make the argument that a separate binary sitting aside the node could hurt in any way
asciilifeform: i.e. as an object you can divide by 33 ?
ben_vulpes: (fwiw i'm down to the last ghostly suggestion, which was to read in the hash as a bignum)
davout: asciilifeform: i don't thing the argument that the block validation logic can be found in the block validation logic is tenuous
ben_vulpes: unless i misunderstand, the project is truly blocked on making checkpoints configurable.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i've been working on phf's recommendations of late
asciilifeform: (a result where there is ~no~ miner available, i exclude from consideration because it pisses on the R in 'trb')
asciilifeform: i historically refused to touch the miner, and will not encourage anyone to touch it, because neither i nor anyone i know is equipped to properly test the result.
davout: but i also get the other point, a lot of that complexity becomes apparent once one actually goes ahead and pops the hood
asciilifeform: this was, if anyone recalls, the reason i asked for the functional flow graph
a111: Logged on 2017-01-03 21:29 asciilifeform: though what i pictured is that trb can finally produce the motherfucking ~book~ and it will be possible to start rewrite...
asciilifeform: to steal from mircea_popescu's article on subj, 'get inseminated on purpose, rather than 'because hey, there was a party, and i like to drink''
lobbes: BingoBoingo: aha. Yeah, I guess more towards high school. Luckily I was just old enough to still have been taught how to research using actual b00ks and/or libraries.
mircea_popescu: and what i pictured were 72 cubits high, translucent, ageless, nonmenstruating and deliver pregnancy to term within the day.
asciilifeform: though what i pictured is that trb can finally produce the motherfucking ~book~ and it will be possible to start rewrite... ☟︎
asciilifeform: (if i cannot ~mechanically~ tell that the untouched parts are untouched -- they are, for all intents and purposes, touched)
asciilifeform: this is why the original genesis was such a painful affair (and why it was and remains important to READ how i did it)
mircea_popescu: i suspect graph theory may have a solution for us, but it is not clear to me how.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm not entirely certain that the problem is solvable (it IS possible to define a richer diff language that permits block moves, but this also permits inscrutable-to-naked-eye patches to exist.)
lobbes: Re: wikipedia. I remember early on in grade school I was actually taught that wikipedia was shit. By the time I entered college this tune had changed. Now it all makes sense
mircea_popescu: i suppose it IS easier to check though
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno, one huge insert patch is still pretty dubious as far as paternity goes.
lobbes: That was a great read, thank you. Lined up exactly with my own anecdotal experiences. If I learned one thing in 'business school', it was how to properly bullshit. Only cost some 20k! Real learning didn't happen until after graduating (funnily enough, I also learned to drive -after- getting my license)
asciilifeform: i can think of a few palliative pills for it, in particular to structure the deletions and insertions in separate vpatches
mircea_popescu: "never change anything" i guess.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i can think of one (nonfatal, but quite unpleasant) headache: without a less-idiotic replacement for gnudiff, the resulting cut-trb becomes very difficult to pedigree to trad-trb . sorta like the problem with the tabs/spaces cleanup proposed by mircea_popescu last year
davout: hrm, i'll have to re-read ☟︎
mod6: i drew myself a diagram, helps.
mircea_popescu: "i have heard this transaction" is of interest to b ; not of a. "this is a transaction from a block" is of interest to a.
mircea_popescu: each b, a have one, i mean.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-03 19:56 ben_vulpes: because "map-reduce" does not reduce to "here's how i'm going to solve specifically the case where thread n finds an unspent out and thread n+1 finds its spent and in the reducing phase i collate everything proper-like"
asciilifeform: i parsed it as the sense-making 'build to one binary'
asciilifeform: i dun recall anyone ever suggesting that trb be distributed as exe...
asciilifeform: 'requires 80% of gossipd' would be a stronger statement, but then i'd have to explain which 80
trinque: I was going to say the same, does require gossipd
ben_vulpes: i generally assume "everyone will clap" but rarely have that for which
ben_vulpes: davout: dunno, "just biked into office after spending as much time with family as i wanted o'clock"?
ben_vulpes: davout: you know maybe i need another cup of coffee
davout: ben_vulpes: when aggregating the outputs, nuke those for which a spent out is found? it sounds pretty trivial to me, am i missing something obvious?
ben_vulpes: because "map-reduce" does not reduce to "here's how i'm going to solve specifically the case where thread n finds an unspent out and thread n+1 finds its spent and in the reducing phase i collate everything proper-like" ☟︎
davout: i haven't thought about the rescanning approach much
asciilifeform: we recently had a thread, where i described how parts of phuctor are quite slow precisely because of such decoupling.
davout: ben_vulpes: if i namedrop 'map-reduce' does that appease you?
asciilifeform: i get it, the 'decouple everything', 'unix philosophy!!!' thing is appealing. but it runs into practical limits.
trinque: davout: I agree with "RI must bitcoinate *completely*"
davout: ben_vulpes: sounds slow, although i confess i haven't actually experimented
davout: ben_vulpes: i failed to parse
davout: trinque: yeah, that's the kind of design i'd like to end up with
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 20:03 trinque: I'd have it run along indexing mine
ben_vulpes: davout: i imagined this as a component of bear stone and skin knife transacting
davout: ben_vulpes: i'm listing it as an option
mod6: that's just like the listunspent thing that i backported.
davout: yeah, check it out i'm reading teh log
a111: Logged on 2017-01-03 17:27 asciilifeform: i actually sat down to write a long and painfully pedantic piece about what i did, but gave up, let the diff speak for itself
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-03#1595511 <<< o noes, i'd have read ☝︎
mircea_popescu: ah. that;s why i said, when you notice it ~starts~ shedding.
mircea_popescu: pretty much what i do.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: and where do i buy a 'breaker bar' that fits 0.5mm screw.
asciilifeform: i've lost count of how many times i buy a not-the-cheapest $tool, and after 2-3 uses it crumbles into, literally, dust, and then buy 'nice' one, which half the time has been chinafied/plasticized already into very close resemblance to the el cheapo item, sometimes beyond any meaningful diff
asciilifeform: i shit thee not
asciilifeform: i've yet to personally meet the howard hughes who buys cable by trainload for ~own house~.
asciilifeform: i suppose you could, if you buy by the trainload & get shafted there
asciilifeform: 'all wire frays' 'really nao? i have wire here from 1940s that is frayed in 0 places'
asciilifeform: i must echo the words of mircea_popescu's electric heater article, and say, that such a thing could never appear by chance, someone busted his arse to design something so malignantly anti-functional .
asciilifeform: even simple thing, that i would have bet money no one could fuck up -- fucked up. ~year ago i bought 'antistatic mat', conductive rubber thing with coiled cord that goes to ground pin of mains socket, etc. that cord is now frayed in 11 places.