log☇︎
75600+ entries in 0.04s
mircea_popescu: the 5 don't have to regrind anymore than you do, can just import the patch.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 18:19 asciilifeform: this is the inevitable cost of v, you gotta weigh 'i can fix this typo, but 5 people will need to either regrind or abandon my tree'
asciilifeform: ah ~these~ , they dun even use gnumake, they use various heathen horrors, 'modern', 'cmake' etc
mircea_popescu: well, where they still c, which is rapidly dwindling (no doubt for this reason -- and batshit insane nonsense like "containers" and "rubies" and whatnot verymuch have their roots in we-were-born-in-gnusty-makefiles-taste-ok"
asciilifeform: btw one of the items i have in the deep freezers, is a trb with block db ripped out, replaced with (half-finished, sadly) ada mmap thing
asciilifeform: ( trb still has )
asciilifeform: prior to all of this i had gargantuan makefiles, that called out to various shellisms that turned out to flake on e.g. bsd
mircea_popescu: it's kinda mindboggling to me, how readily that seeming tooth-rooted-in-yggdrasil got removed.
mircea_popescu: i think there's three previous instances on the whole net of "i dun miss gnumake"
asciilifeform: (without explicitly given name). and the rest.
asciilifeform: automagically finds the c turd, for instance.
mircea_popescu: i dun see a problem with that bit, either.
asciilifeform: currently i only use it to toggle debugflag vs adult build, and that's prolly the beginning and end of the valid use case imho
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 18:14 asciilifeform: was speaking of the gprbuild selector variant.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851358 << imo this is a very stupid way to go about it ; first and foremost for the reason given (why am i signing ifdefs i do not run) but there's also others. ☝︎
a111: 2016-10-15 <kmalkki> apu1 also really needs DBREQn asserted to give access to USEHDT IR/DR pair
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, as recently as '16 we briefly had a finn here, helped me ferret out the amd key thing, but went back into the allconsuming swamp, never heard from again
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 18:09 ave1: I don't know about the different v-trees for this, I'll have to think about it
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851352 << what's the impediment though ? ☝︎
asciilifeform: certainly nao is ( currently under conversion to a sort of discount bagdad, as i understand )
asciilifeform: sorta like early '90s su, for that matter
asciilifeform: for short time, they had a) functional people b) with time on their hands
mircea_popescu: at some point in the 80s, finland-sweden-norway-and-peripheralia were a kind of internet center.
mircea_popescu: yeah, that was the thing "northern democracies" pantsuit meme is trying to take to the hot topic cash register.
asciilifeform: torvalds, supposedly, came from that dead culture.
mircea_popescu: diageo took over their alcohol.
mircea_popescu: but this is the wrong language for that discussion.
mircea_popescu: yes, there is a brief nail of time where in finland irc was dating rather than bitwashery.
asciilifeform: the protocol itself is a '80s thing tho, and (at least according to folk legend..) at one time was used ~likethis
asciilifeform still has fat binder of these very same
mircea_popescu: dcc carried more ~meaningful~ discolored bits than anything else, though the later torrents far outweight it
mircea_popescu: originally irc of today was implemented by bbs and the irc was principally a sort of edonkey, basically conversations around warez metadata.
asciilifeform: ftp, i can see, telnet, but -- why this.
asciilifeform: ftr i never grasped why irc is a tcp item to begin with. it aint as if the messages outweigh the available bucket.
asciilifeform: and this is one of the few i know of
asciilifeform: typically i'm reluctant to open the hood on things that aint broken, tho
mircea_popescu: especially seeing how the hood is merely drawn on, and the actual box is inside one wheel.
asciilifeform: but eventually, even this.
asciilifeform: i'm using an ancient gtk1 thing for irc on this box, and loathe to pry open its rusted hood
mircea_popescu: this being the emacs view on gui.
mircea_popescu: people don't want to rewrite "traditional X" because "traditional" is always a way of saying "gui". and nobody ever wants to redo that.
asciilifeform: ( at which point writing new thing begins to look like a win )
mircea_popescu: and we almost like never ever do that.
asciilifeform: you'd have to doctor it.
mircea_popescu: fuck that ; trad irc client will connect in the manner lobbes is building atop trinque 's design. fucking sql queue, what.
asciilifeform: ( e.g. connecting trad irc client to gossiptron )
asciilifeform: imho tcp , if preserved anywhere, oughta live as a lowered-into-pederasty item-only-carried-over-better-protocols or strictly-on-lan, like telnet.
asciilifeform: it also leaks sequence and other tidbits 3rdparty has 0biznis knowing
asciilifeform: ( by inserting a nAck, or simply timing it out, etc )
asciilifeform: tcp imho is fundamentally sad, not the least reason for which is that 'anybody' can break yer pipe
asciilifeform: i cut off the tcpism, cleaned up, turned into 'udp' lib
asciilifeform: sorta ugly, and not released, kept 'fleet in being' in case we gotta jump off fleanode ahead of schedule ( there isn't imho esp. much use for it outside of this )
asciilifeform: not adult gossipd, was simply proggy that eats a symmetric key and gives tunnel for, e.g., www, ftp, telnet, etc
mircea_popescu: imo that's a sort of herodotus bestiary item, web-footed whale.
asciilifeform: 'g' , the tunnel-tcp-through-ciphered-udp thing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, the proggy for which i originally wrote the thing , was one
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 18:03 ave1: I was working towards having different modules on top of a common base to support tcp / unix sockets etc. but I think your idea is way better, asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851315
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851334 << i also can't think of a thing that would legitimately need/want to use both tcp and udp as a toplevel thing. ☝︎
asciilifeform: btw re http://ossasepia.com/2018/09/14/smgcomms-implementation-chapter-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4212 , observe that my proggy flips nuffin (aside from the ip/port that linux demands in bigend, and even then strictly when on littleendianistic box)
mircea_popescu: sing ye beedog the anger of ave the viking upon encountering bsd sockets again.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol, i assumed was typo from 'wraiths'
mircea_popescu: ave1 it's warts you know, not warths nor wraths (though this one's quite funny).
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 16:52 lobbes: Detailed update on step 3) referenced within: I have finished designing/building out/testing the underlying table and field structure (I ended up migrating the underlying db to postgres in lieu of sqlite, and so far am glad I did). Right now I am in the thick of the re-tooling of my old coad. Still looks to be on-track for Oct 31st delivery, but I will keep folx updated
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851331 << this sounds like it was a most educational adventure. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: when they bake again, it's gonna be "because the world is mean and CERTAINLY not because http://trilema.com/2013/the-dead-jew-and-the-raped-girl/ " again also, no doubt ? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851317 << kinda lulzy, jews doing the best they can to alienate absolutely everybody. ☝︎
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-09-18 14:08 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851125 << incidentally, we very much want to do this. diana_coman mind setting up a large testing harness, send a soup of all packets lengths from 1 to 65536 bytes each hour back and forth for a week or two ?
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 16:06 diana_coman: anyways, rounding up, it seems my next step here is to 1. set up the testing harness http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-9-18#431515 2. put asciilifeform's lib to use in smg.comms
asciilifeform: i'ma bake another patch later this wk, unless somebody else does first.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/udp_genesis#L363 << moar errata, thing should eggog if bytes_sent != payloadlen
asciilifeform: ( can have side-branches, but they'll be short, you'll either grind'em into the main, or not )
asciilifeform: if yer thing is 'young' and in flux, it's likely to be a single-author straight-line tree at any rate
asciilifeform: this is the other thing, 'changes are expensive' promote imho a sane view of software, where you actually try to perma-stabilize yer proggy, rather than to keep up the classic 'open sores' eternal cauldron of bubbling liquishit ☟︎☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: this is the inevitable cost of v, you gotta weigh 'i can fix this typo, but 5 people will need to either regrind or abandon my tree' ☟︎
asciilifeform: they will, yes. but i dun expect this one to change much at all.
ave1: how would this interact with manifests? it seems to me to need regrinds when the base code has changed
asciilifeform: was speaking of the gprbuild selector variant. ☟︎
asciilifeform: if using the trees separation method, yes
ave1: well if the ocean is in a different file it will also no end up in the tree (only in those patches containing the file)
asciilifeform: but would rather avoid an ocean of os-specific items that i'm expected to sign despite never having tested and possibly not even owning the iron with which to test ( again see the #ifdef megathread )
asciilifeform: ave1: i am also not opposed to using gprbuild's selector thing
asciilifeform: for a correctly-written proggy, v-branching is clean, you can make patch that only affects os-specific coad
ave1: I don't know about the different v-trees for this, I'll have to think about it ☟︎
asciilifeform: afaik none of this requires any additional fancy tooling
ave1: Yes, depending on python is definitely not the way to go
asciilifeform: 'this-here is what you press to get dec alpha', 'this-here - mips' , etc
asciilifeform: imho the preferred method of branching is -- vtronic
asciilifeform: ave1: i'd rather not marry python if at all possible to avoid
asciilifeform: ( see the 'ifdefs thread' )
ave1: AdaCore has python scripts that copy stuff for this.
asciilifeform: ave1: this is the method i recommend , yes
ave1: My current method to support different platforms (C, asm X86, asm arm) is to have implementations of the same module in different source directories and then selecting the directory to use in the project file.
asciilifeform: exactly there
ave1: Yes, around the point were the outcalls to C are?
asciilifeform: and there's a quite convenient place to put.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 15:54 mircea_popescu: ave1 i very much hope you don't think your own work is a waste for this reason.
ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851285, no I do not. I was thinking I could add the asm stuff to asciilifeforms UDP code in a vpatch, if this would be at all desirable. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 16:06 asciilifeform: as for tcp, unixsockets, etc. imho if we ever need these, they oughta live in own separate lib, given as they force somewhat different and gnarlier semantics, they do not belong in 1 gigantic 'kitchen sink' imho
ave1: I was working towards having different modules on top of a common base to support tcp / unix sockets etc. but I think your idea is way better, asciilifeform http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-18#1851315 ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 14:48 mircea_popescu: incidentally ave1 what was your process there ? did you compile a higher language original (what, c ?) and then desasm the resulting object code ? followed by a handpass through the result, neating & trimming things out ? or did you start with a blank page and a legal pad ?