log☇︎
74300+ entries in 0.471s
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: implementing sane wallet is easily a man-year.
mircea_popescu: i thought you wrote all this shit on a touchpad anyway.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:12 ben_vulpes: perhaps a low-dough point: vpatches ensure that functionality will always be available, regardless of weight of "current" version
ben_vulpes: Please create a user account for more screenshot quota.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: that's not a browser
mircea_popescu: if i were a pirate i couldn't read it altogether.
mircea_popescu: it's already the size of a patch
asciilifeform: therr is a whole dream-trilema that asciilifeform sometimes reads in sleep.
asciilifeform: iirc there was a mircea_popescu parable where someone attaches a parasite to a wife and somebody else objects to removing, because 'how do you know where it ends and other it begins'
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes do you mind ? i'm having a quality moment here with the alf.
mircea_popescu: it's a cheap and welcome cut, reduces the codebase, that and the idiotic "alert messages" are certainly next to snip
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how do you square this "someone mighta" with "nothing for allcomers", and in particular "a specific thing for nobody"?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: panda fur gasket on there for a reason!
mircea_popescu: in my extensive practice as a major economic agent i never either wanted to or did bother to verify one.
ben_vulpes: "address-generation from mining" literally does not compute for me unless there's some amount of "pubkey hash must meet this criteria" a la bitcoin
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: picture 'coins as planets, discovered planet? you have a coin' approx.
mircea_popescu: a coupla, yeah.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we had a thread a while back re 'fragless' coins
mircea_popescu: davout ideal bitcoin. a putative v2.0 / replacement / fork.
mircea_popescu: (and such not knowing is a large part of what moderates any interest i might have in greenlighting i-b work_
asciilifeform: happened, for good or ill, with cpu cycles ('why the fuck there is a computer in my flashlight' thread), plastics, LED, etc.
mircea_popescu: davout the thing that SHOULD be done about it is make it work in such a way it doesn't choke in its own fumes. not that i know how to do that. ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not really oversupplied, there are quite a few unplated contacts in use.
mircea_popescu: davout the problem discussed is where the most serene republic spans 85 million stars and a trillion planets and everyone involved holds a few satoshi and ten thousand times more slaves.
mircea_popescu: davout not really a problem of tools.
davout: seems to me like defragging could be a thing given the correct tools
asciilifeform: in same respect, it would likely cost quite a bit to collect gold contacts from every old cpu in every junkyard.
mircea_popescu: note that the per-block value is liable to stay ~constant ; it certainly varies less than the price of bitcoin for instance. so those satoshi will always be worth a lot in fiat terms anyway
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a block is a mb. 10k satoshi.
asciilifeform: so at max fragocalypse, one might have situation where to move 100 satoshi, occupies a block
mircea_popescu: so yes, if we aim to go from "all coinbases = 1 satoshi" through merger to "all coinbases = 2 satoshi" we're looking at a whole shitload of blocks.
asciilifeform: so we can say how many can live in a block.
mircea_popescu: anyway. war in this sense, as in napoleon invading, is a loss of information. ie, library burning.
asciilifeform: incidentally what does a tx to consolidate N addrs having 1 satoshi each, weigh, in terms of N
mircea_popescu: of "value" in a very novel, post-bitcoin, deeply information-theoretic interpretation of the term.
mircea_popescu: from the pov of the network, glueing together is technically speaking a loss.
mircea_popescu: technically speaking sticking people back into their mother's cunts to get two people out of a litter of 12 also costs the same.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand it, a defragging tx weighs exactly same as fragging tx , though
mircea_popescu: all coins, in the sense of agglomerations of satoshi, exist as descendents of an original block subsidy, and in that sense ARE coinbases ; much like electrons or photons are wave functions. they manifest verifiably in certain points, as "unspent transaction outputs" ; muych like waveform collapses. they interact with matter, in certain ways,this is called a transaction.
ben_vulpes: i am under the impression that a coinbase would not need to be injected, but that the individual utxos do need to be.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes an "uxto" discusses an aspect of a coinbase.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:00 davout: thestringpuller: UTXO set is ~2gb tops, indexing might be nice but necessary to scan for UTXOs that match a given set of addresses, also the wallet part can cache them if that particular wallet is the only one able to actually spend those UTXIs
asciilifeform: not to mention asking it to have a nic
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 18:51 asciilifeform: it'd be one thing if davout proposed the cut ~in tandem with~ a standalone walletron. even if it were made entirely out of the old one.
mircea_popescu: bitch, you're nobody's wife and there's a reason for that.
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 18:04 asciilifeform: but in latest lulz, http://archive.is/8G35m >> 'O’Grady was mistakenly identified this week as a Secret Service agent (also named Kerry O’Grady) who is under investigation for posting a statement on Facebook that appeared to indicate she preferred jail over being shot and killed for President Trump.'
asciilifeform: there's gotta be a patch, somewhere.
ben_vulpes: it's not even an altruism thing, it's a "do you serve a churning vat of cockroaches or kings with names"
Framedragger: re. a), i totally hear ya. i mean, who does. re. b), yes i can see that.
ben_vulpes: Framedragger: for all of the time i have spent losing my mind in radioactive webtech mines i a) do not like the domain b) have zero desire to build half-baked solutions when ~fully baked ones exist
a111: Logged on 2016-07-15 10:31 Framedragger: regarding LAMP stacks and blog software: static site generators are there for a reason. significantly smaller codebases and attack surfaces cf. wordpress. just sayin'.
Framedragger: i'm still preferring http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-15#1503181 but granted, don't have a working "moderated but without captcha" comments solution. best i can think of is, write very light backend service to handle comment post requests, store them somewhere sensible, allow operator to accept/deny comments (could be flat text files) ☝︎☟︎
ben_vulpes: fact of the matter is that wp 2.7 does ~everything a person needs from a personal cms afaict.
asciilifeform: imho anything involving php is still outhouse. (albeit some outhouses are a step ahead of others, what with stone plinths and toilet paper roll holder, instead of earthen pit)
ben_vulpes: but the use of a friend's backhoe to put in a septic system to replace the outhouse.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: yeah, unless you're trying to bridge a specific and small gap, mine probably won't be of any use
asciilifeform: not a scrape
ben_vulpes: which, subject to opsec constraints, is a fine thing to do.
asciilifeform: far from a console.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: phf was last seen in #trilema 1 day, 22 hours, 3 minutes, and 31 seconds ago: <phf> so if you have a system that you implemented fast, but it's slow, but you know how to now slowly make it fast, you have a strategy. if you're chasing corner cases, running a profiler and get mostly flat distribution, writing in special cases, etc. you don't have one
ben_vulpes: phf: may i have a copy of your log backups?
asciilifeform: remove-old-liver-then-immediately-install-new -- a-ok.
asciilifeform: that'd be a tremendously useful thing.
trinque: the guy already said ok to shipping a txn maker with the patch!!
asciilifeform: i asked very specific question. say davout makes a wallet-less trb. and for some reason we all embrace it and roll it into each his own personal vtree.
asciilifeform: also i admit to a deep curiosity, the folx itching to dump the wallet without offering a new one, what the hell are you lot transacting WITH ?
asciilifeform: what i would like to do in this thread, is to ask folx to stop and think for half a minute about what differentiates trb from prb.
ben_vulpes: davout: there are many parts of a kalash that are not strictly ergonomic.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: no argument, but i do not see the point of moving output indexer into a separate bin given that it needs a live blockchain anyways.
trinque: it doesn't have miles of hair just in case you wanted help writing a loop, or ...
trinque: nothing helps me generate a valid lisp statement for sbcl other than I pop one in
davout: ben_vulpes: but even if separate binary i see this more as a "reference wallet" in the same way the "reference miner" demonstrates what a miner does, but isn't actually used by anyone professionnally issuing transactions
asciilifeform: (afaik no such thing ever existed for common lisp, because it was a sanely-defined -- i.e. paper -- standard.)
asciilifeform: trinque: sbcl is not a reference-implementation of anything.
trinque: does sbcl also not only have to be able to interpret / compile common lisp; it must also provide a UI for you to generate statements in it?
asciilifeform: davout, ben_vulpes : signatron belongs in a copper box with tiny hole drilled for one fiber.
asciilifeform: davout: you do not get to say that a walletless bitcoin distribution succeeds in 'defining money'.
davout: asciilifeform: to me there is and remains a difference in kind between "the thing that defines what money is" and "the particulars of your personal wallet"
asciilifeform: anyway who wants to do the 10 minutes of work to prepare a wallet snip, go ahead, just be aware that you will have to repeat most of said work by the time replacement wallet is a thing.
trinque: guy was using the sign-message as an example for a smaller cut than the wallet
asciilifeform: but to lose functionality, however uncommonly needed, that does exactly 0 harm, and the loss of which reduces by no amount the labour of a trb code reader, is at best a snore.
davout: if you ~must~ verify one of those sigs you pull up a trb that can ~fin~
asciilifeform: suppose i gotta verify the signature on a malformed tx.
asciilifeform: davout: a walletron is pointedly ~not~ 'a knob turn away'
trinque: it'd probably be better to be hollering at a patch than all this
asciilifeform: cutting-apart is a great thing.
asciilifeform: davout: can you draw a scenario where you might say 'now if only we had not thrown out idiot accounts...'
trinque: and eventually there's a process of regrinding and so on
trinque: I don't think it's a sin for davout to go slashing and cauterizing in one direction, meanwhile reference client proceeds in another
davout: asciilifeform: the trb tree has a "continuity-preserving" mission, not "current trb official version"
asciilifeform: davout: yes, they could 'rebuild historical trb' but imho if this is a kind of thing that ever becomes necessary, trb will have failed in its continuity-preserving mission.
davout: what version of gnu-awk are asciilifeform, trinque et al. using to have a usable vdiff.sh ?
davout: asciilifeform: archaeologists can build a verifymessage-capable trb, couldn't they?
ben_vulpes: perhaps a low-dough point: vpatches ensure that functionality will always be available, regardless of weight of "current" version ☟︎
trinque: I don't see that it'd be a terrible sin to have multiple branches descending from current trb
davout: asciilifeform: my emulated mp would answer that a dork that signed that way can't possibly sign something important
thestringpuller: probing is more accurate a term
davout: but appreciate that i'm a fucking noob and i need to have something to get started, at least with the toolchain, not that it has to make official release until it's actually done you know
davout: asciilifeform: granted, is it ok with you if i give it a goddamn shot?
thestringpuller: davout: no. I'm just curious if there is a way to scrape UTXO's now, cause for my wallet tron I'm scraping blocks themselves. Def not O(n). (don't laugh)