log☇︎
711000+ entries in 0.391s
asciilifeform: joecool: ever tried this personally?
mircea_popescu: bounce used to. meanwhile shit like apple happened.
joecool: asciilifeform: why not use existing infrastructure, figure out how to inject a signal into powerline
asciilifeform: bounce: you're thinking of arpanet
bounce thinks the discussion is not constructive. anybody recall why the internet is structured like it is? because it can withstand damage and route around it.
asciilifeform: let's say '04, to make it nice & round.
mircea_popescu: what second time ?
asciilifeform: how many of us expected the key escrow crap to slip right in the second time?
bounce: once "TSHTF" enforcement agencies will become haphazard in their actions, so nicely spread out stashes would help a lot
BingoBoingo: bounce you know a number of missile targeting systems seek RF emissions.
mircea_popescu: the jury's still out on the topic of whether they can win 2014. the jury however is not out on whether they can win 1994.
mircea_popescu: should a government - any government - take things back to that level, it'd be to their detriment, not to mine.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you are mistaken in the following sense : i ruled, undisturbed, undisturbable, before the internet was invented.
bounce: it's a proven design. now move the radio to some neverland(, and see which military outfit shows up)
asciilifeform: if you're pumping out kWatts of whatever, wherever - you're a target.
bounce: bunch of those would be a convenient start. though I really would prefer a nice high gain omni on top.
asciilifeform: if you're 'meshing' with consumer hardware, on fixed, documented frequencies - you're a target.
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> maybe im simpleminded << buzz off. next you're going to claim you're psychopath too ?!
gribble: Village Telco » Mesh Potato: <http://villagetelco.org/mesh-potato/>; Village Telco » Mesh Potato: <http://villagetelco.org/category/village-telco/mesh-potato/>; Mesh Potatoes - Village Telco Store Village Telco Store: <https://store.villagetelco.com/mesh-potatoes.html>
asciilifeform: and to think that it is purely an 'american problem' - is a mistake.
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> yeah, well the stigma did not create itself << stigma means, of course, a stain.
asciilifeform: i dare to invoke the 'parachute theorem,' and say that the time to build comm infrastructure out of the real (or imagined) control of the crown is now, and not when it becomes a dire necessity.
mircea_popescu: <pankkake> "let me tell you a story…" contradictor falls asleep, win by default << o lies and slander. my stories kick ass
joecool: i had a 30mi clear shot from my back deck of old house to an observation deck @ a state park
fluffypony: joecool: we should suggest TonalDogecoin
joecool: there's a site you can use to check what mountains are in the way
joecool: 20-30mi with 5GHZ line of sight is feasible, i used to live on a mountain and experimented with some pretty long links
asciilifeform: the point i wanted to make was that anything other than a very broad, military-style spread spectrum setup, with hop keys exchanged in person, is simply a beacon for the gasenwagen.
bounce: doesn't have to be very efficient. ttl everything will do as long as it works.
bounce: the thing there is that you need ready access to hardware, or at least schematics simple enough for the hobbyist to cobble together.
bounce: or stick to linking up wifi nodes with dish antennae. that goes a while too.
asciilifeform: bounce: suggested earlier. and, of course, by many other people, in the past.
bounce: well, then forget about the licence and go entirely pirate with a spread-spectrum frequency-hopping whatever construct.
artifexd: ThickAsThieves: Had it been done at the beginning 1mn satoshis to the bitcoin would have made more sense. That would have made 2.1 billion bitcoin in total and maybe that number would have made people register that 21 million was not an arbitrary number and making coins with more is just a fucking headache.
asciilifeform: so they eagerly rat out violators.
asciilifeform: in usa at least, 'hams' know that they live at the pleasure of the crown, various folks are always hungry for their spectrum pie
bounce: one option might be to get a boating radio licence. they're already throwing packet over those frequencies for email-to-boat
BingoBoingo: bounce: HAMs tend to be a territorial and snitchy bunch
bounce: who's to know? I'm doing experiments with me mate
joecool: lol yeah cannot do that :P
asciilifeform: bounce: the other hams will eagerly turn you in
bounce: there's some interesting digital modulations about. if I ever get around to a HAM licence I'd probably still dump crypted data on the wire along with a readable call sign
asciilifeform: bounce: resurrecting fido << see the point earlier about the destroyed 'bell' copper in usa
asciilifeform: anything that transmits over 1000km is a fat target.
joecool: 1000's of km? gonna need relays or a signal that can bounce
asciilifeform: a usenet-style system, where messages might resort to travelling in a truck full of disk, seems inevitable in a scenario like this.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: real time tcp/ip, over 1000s of km, for millions of people - is a luxury.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: True. Picking the radio bands over US style distances presents challenges though.
joecool: fluffypony: well could adopt the tonal system and TBC like Luke-Jr wanted :P
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: well, yes, that's exactly what's been suggested
BingoBoingo: fluffypony: Have the accounting software work satoshis then.
asciilifeform: refrigerators, unlike cars, don't come with legal titles
fluffypony: ThickAsThieves: the adoption argument is that it seems "more like a currency" because we're used to 2 decimal places, and most account software can't work with more than 2 anyway
asciilifeform: hard to think of how else the crown could distinguish between legit and thieving metal recyclers.
joecool: the municipalities though would sell scrap licenses for these discarded items and arrest anyone who picked it up without a permit
joecool: we kept getting floods so people threw out things like refrigerators (with coils)
asciilifeform: sorta like how, in old scotland, they had a contraption very similar to the later guillotine - 'scottish gibbet' - where a cattle or horse thief would find the animal he stole attached to a rope, which pulls out the peg, blade falls. ☟︎
asciilifeform: (can easily think of creative penalties for buyers of stolen copper. say, hanging with same stolen cable. on a hv mast.)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: optical line-of-sight would work well in places other than usa - ones where people still live in cities
asciilifeform: but see mp's story of the last emperor.
asciilifeform: in a functioning empire, the penalty would be - sizzling in the electric chair. right there, in the bed of a specially-built police truck.
pankkake: and some don't even know how to spot copper and cut the fiber
BingoBoingo: Yeah. Optic net is also a possibility. Fiber without the fiber.
pankkake: yeah, I know that story. copper stealing is a worldwide plague done by various people
asciilifeform: in usa, desperados are attaching trucks to hv cables and driving off.
joecool: pankkake: you're thinking georgians, they'll cut into anything remotely resembling a wire, source: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/06/georgian-woman-cuts-web-access
asciilifeform: folks who like to eat shit - can eat it. others will continue to eat food.
ThickAsThieves: how do they not see that an arbitrary change will only cause confusion and likely fail at being adopted
BingoBoingo: Fuck them. The decimal can move two spaces to the left
asciilifeform: the correct way to do 'pirate radio' net is - frequency hopping 'spread spectrum.' meet the other local node people in person, to agree on a key.
ThickAsThieves: lordy, the forum and bitpay wanna move the bitcoin decimal to two places
asciilifeform: plenty of quiet spectrum, there for the taking, esp. if one only needs a few km of range.
asciilifeform: and, given that 'one may as well hang for a sheep as a lamb,' why stick to only 2m.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: Shame encryption on Amateur radio frequencies is a crime << eventually, u.s. folks who want genuine net will need to commit this - or some other - crime.
BingoBoingo: All of the good technologies come with expiration dates.
asciilifeform: eventually, the one or two remaining copper subscribers will complain. and perhaps it will be re-filled. or not.
asciilifeform: instead, there are tanks of co2 chained to poles here and there ☟︎
asciilifeform: my understanding is that these, at least where i live, and in a number of other places, have given out - and never replaced
asciilifeform: in a traditional telco plant, there are giant air dryers, blowing into ducts, to keep positive pressure
pankkake: and keeping the romanians from stealing it
asciilifeform: copper is expensive - not merely the metal, but maintenance - keeping water out of the cable ducts, etc. the telcos would hurry to be rid of it even the removal did not speed the arrival of arsenet. ☟︎
asciilifeform: but it could convert to ArseNet overnight.
asciilifeform: gone from the house, and from the pole.
asciilifeform: for example - moving into new house, i discovered a dangling stub where the old 'bell atlantic' copper ought to be.
asciilifeform: and the local carries have destroyed as many of them as they could get away with
asciilifeform: in usa, the copper lines are regulated under the terms of the at&t divestiture
MarieLynn: Went to a FidoNet Con last year :)
asciilifeform: by the fiber folks
asciilifeform: over here, many houses had their land line copper (illegally) torn out
asciilifeform: it won't be as easy as the first time, though
asciilifeform: and wonders like fidonet will return from the grave.
asciilifeform: paradoxically, a return of the era when you must beg/borrow/steal genuine net access from employers, universities - could actually end 'eternal september.'
BingoBoingo: If the choice were between arsenet and Dial-up, I'd probably choose dial up
asciilifeform: arsenet is coming, because the average luser doesn't really insist on being able to open an arbitrary tcp connection from wherever to wherever
asciilifeform: living in usa, i admit i'm rather surprised that it is 2014 and i'm not yet forced to pay $500/mo to get something other than ArsebookNet
asciilifeform: because these are the only kind where the shit might fly
asciilifeform: but now the 'walled garden' idiots want to replay the match
asciilifeform: amazon's 3g gadgets access the standard net, for no extra cost
asciilifeform: that turd includes at least one outright lie
asciilifeform: after the fud-artists are done