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asciilifeform: it is simply not possible if there are active graybeards, forming a perimeter defense

asciilifeform: to revisit upstack, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633867 << naggum's observation 'cl does not support posers, no one will land a job by pretending to know it, you can expose him in 5 minutes' was only half-true -- turns out there is a process whereby vermin colonize a field, it is quite similar to the way in which lichens break apart a stone into soil ☝︎

phf: (speaking of common lisp. asdf the system dependency tool turned from 30k in version 1 into a asdf/uiop 900k monster in version 2. in a systemd move took over most of the compatability packages and is now present ~in every single lisp distribution~. with the did accomplished, Fare posts the following http://fare.livejournal.com/188429.html )

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform technically speaking this is universally guaranteed. as per the ancient "idiot -- can not have idea ; mp saying x and idiot saying x are not the same", the mere fact of your using it enacts it as a ~substantially~ different item than what they use.

asciilifeform: and there is very little that a monkey can do .

mircea_popescu: consider : running a destornillador comes out of the box ; skating - nope.

asciilifeform: the interesting q to ask re a system is not 'can idiots make a sham version' but 'can i tell that this was done'

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is sadly a form of special pleading. consider the tribe of americans in the nation of africa with the deformed heads / elongated necks / etc.

mircea_popescu: holy shit, purported usage of weapons IN EXACT CONTRADICTION TO THEIR UTILITY is a holywood standard today!

mircea_popescu: what, you think black and decker power tools hanging from power cords around the neck could NEVER become a "music industry" standard ?

phf: anything can have a pose. if it becomes so that "no real hacker", you're going to have plenty of "real hackers" at ada hackathons wearing "ada: make you hack better, bitch" tshirts

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the animal, imho, doesn't have a skin that anyone might care to wear. if you remove the safety, it simply becomes a muchly verbose cpp.

asciilifeform: it is a very ugly sibling of pascal.

asciilifeform: phf: i have a hard time picturing said 'modernization' as looking like anything other than 'let's turn it into cpp'

diana_coman: but essentially it is so far the only sort of approach that stands a chance against the mass of idiots basically; still a field of study for me re actual deployment, but anyways

phf: fwiw ada is a harsh mistress is an illusion. if it were to become fashionable to write ada among the hacker news crowd, there will be rapid attempts at modernization. common lisp went through that process

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has a thread a few days ago re sister-fucking, as example

mircea_popescu: and that's just how the code trap works too : it takes a while for the cost of shitty practices to accrue to the point where it exceeds the cost of having used alternative practices.

mircea_popescu: "but it was ok before" "yes, and you're a rodent."

mircea_popescu: also consider how methyl alcohol poisoning works (you ever wondered how the rfuck is it possible this STILL occurs today ?) : there's a sudden transition from dosing which the body absorbs without signal to dose wich renders one blind. the animal, without exception, ends up with a source of methyl alcohol. drinks some, is ok. drinks some more tomorrow, is ok. then goes to wedding/party/is depressed, drinks a lot. is blind.

mircea_popescu: diana_coman this is a problem more fundamental than code. consider : well run us, relying on the wealth amassed by people whose toes today's imbeciles aren't qualified to kiss, the carnegies and rockefellers and etc of the golden age, readily allowed inept management the APPEARANCE of working, at least initially. 1970s us still appeared like it has a future, notwithstanding it had all the future of argentina. why ? because pi

a111: Logged on 2016-06-14 14:25 asciilifeform: did we ever do a 'postel's law not only considered harmful but a disaster of epic proportions, quite comparable to leaded petrol' thread ?

a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 13:27 asciilifeform: ada in particular is 'a harsh mistress', you can sit for 3 hrs and your thing simply won't build, gcc won't eat it, and you gotta actually open the book and grasp the reason why, brute force knob-twiddling will get you 0 result.

diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633736 <- I actually think that is a characteristic worth knowing how to replicate in one's own programs: after all the horrors I saw, I quite find it a bad thing that well done code tends to be basically too forgiving on idiots ☝︎

asciilifeform: builders, for instance, who thought 'i'll just lay a pile of whatevers and call it a house' were buried alive by fucking hammurabi.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is interesting that programmers often lament 'we have no union', but in fact managed a 'confederacy of dunces' so strong and monolithic that they get away with crapola that'd get any other kind of artisan, mass-hanged

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633751 << quite. like work in cleaning operating room before operating is not wasted. "I JUST WANNA GET TO THE KNIFIGN!!" "then might i suggest a back alley knife fight somewhere ?" ☝︎

mircea_popescu: and a few about having a http://trilema.com/2017/global-warming-on-triton/#selection-177.0-189.40 aka expert sex change.

asciilifeform: iirc we had a small thread about this.

a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 13:20 asciilifeform: fwiw the part i found most painful was the 'access' (pointer) rules. generally you can't have a pointer unless you can demonstrate that it can never dangle

asciilifeform: hare : 'ah, but see, they'll take you in, bugger, castrate, THEN go and prove that you ain't a camel.'

asciilifeform: wolf : 'so what the fuck are you worried about, you ain't a camel'

mircea_popescu: it's a point of fact microfibre feels softer, and that's probably that.

asciilifeform: originates from old tale : a hare is galloping across the steppe. he meets a wolf, who asks :

asciilifeform: 'prove that you are not a camel'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc there was a ban on 'red book' animals etc

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so buy a used convertible in la.

mircea_popescu: that's polyester/polyamide extruded a certain way

a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 12:10 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633641 << what do they do in a fire ? under sunlight ? in acids ? can you make them without any petro ?

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633711 << buy a new car take the "upholstery" apart, it's 99% gonna be microfiber. what does it do under sun ? nothing. if you pour coke on it ? nothing. if you pour sulphuric acid it melts, for sure. ☝︎

asciilifeform: it's gonna end up a trick, 'ahaha i'm on OTHER END of buenos aires', lel

a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 12:03 asciilifeform: omfg jurov mathematica ain't a typesetting system!

asciilifeform: eventually one -- learns. and then you begin to see the monkeys who 'why should i have to look for a special place before taking a shit, i can do it wherever' as the loathesome things they are.

asciilifeform: i don't bring them up together out of superficial similarity, but from fundamental one -- v rejects 'merge' as a concept; ada rejects the promiscuous pointer and cast

asciilifeform: there ~are~ considerable wins in convenience -- you can ask an array how big it is; and where it starts/ends (indices are not from zero, but can be from anything to anything, as can types -- you can have a type 'integers from 12 to 15', say.)

asciilifeform: in most cases you can't even point to a thing in ~your current scope~

asciilifeform: ada in particular is 'a harsh mistress', you can sit for 3 hrs and your thing simply won't build, gcc won't eat it, and you gotta actually open the book and grasp the reason why, brute force knob-twiddling will get you 0 result. ☟︎☟︎

mod6: something to get into it a bit, but not too deep. before I try to dig into anything on the btctron level.

mod6: yah, im not sure im quite there yet. what i really need to start in on is a decent enough sample program.

asciilifeform: fwiw the part i found most painful was the 'access' (pointer) rules. generally you can't have a pointer unless you can demonstrate that it can never dangle ☟︎

mod6: i have to say that some of the ada stuff is a bit non-obvious by syntax only.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633701 << i regret to inform ben_vulpes that reading the book (pick anything that is about ada95 or post) is actually necessary -- a number of things (e.g., the very 'fascist' access variable rules) will make 0 sense until you do ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2017-03-29 06:55 mircea_popescu: there's a certain artisan's "i will touch all the items" vein in there.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633641 << what do they do in a fire ? under sunlight ? in acids ? can you make them without any petro ? ☝︎☟︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-29#1633699 << it is a notbad library to study (no external deps!) -- but it DOES use heap. ☝︎☟︎☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: omfg jurov mathematica ain't a typesetting system! ☟︎

ben_vulpes: could just have readily have been 'conquest' if i were in a pandering mood

mircea_popescu: it's a fact though, she's going to keep herself cleaner for you than she's going to for herself ; and this stands even if you don't say anything.

a111: Logged on 2017-02-17 05:12 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the washing thing is a serious problem. turns out that if no women around, people stop seeing the point.

mircea_popescu: this, as you might imagine, was a major problem in ww1, which is why it's even called "trench foot". it was then discovered the best solution to the problem is pairing all the soldiers and having each responsible for the feet of the other

mircea_popescu: in other random lulz : there are many diseases of the foot, all of them rather similar : capilaries die, then the skin gets colonized by fungus and bacteria, then the nerves die and then gangrene sets in. frostbite is not necessary ; nor is diabethes -- something as simple as keeping the feet in warm mud for half a day, or wet for a few days in the same socks will do it.

mircea_popescu: there's a certain artisan's "i will touch all the items" vein in there. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: son of a bitch. wtf is its current problem ?

a111: Logged on 2015-07-02 21:36 phf: mircea_popescu: i'll keep that i mind. i'd like to give it a try, but i still have memories of tedium and despair from last time i tried building a crystal space project on mac

deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/29/canadian-economic-bitcoin-nodes-more-like-canadian-derpatronic-altcoin-hoes/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Canadian Economic [Bitcoin] Nodes? More like Canadian Derpatronic Altcoin Hoes.

asciilifeform: and apparently jp finally has a pilot plant, http://www.unitika.co.jp/vinylon/e/vinylon/index.html

mircea_popescu: i dunno that at any point since henry was the "legal system" so much of a joke.

asciilifeform: (because the reference is a simple integer, showing where thing is found!)

mircea_popescu: not even a joke, this.

asciilifeform: these will end up 'interned', i.e. represented in the db, in such a way that any tx referred to inside a tx is fetched in O(1)

asciilifeform: (i.e. fetching an output or input is a simple array access)

mircea_popescu: this is rather nice a model.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: presently it eats blocks and tx in a heapless and demonstrably nonoverflowable way, into a general-purpose fixed space (no tx can >1MB) representation that is operable in O(1) ☟︎

asciilifeform: it is a proggy that came out of asciilifeform's slow adaization of all known-permanent bitcoin protocol

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20170328/#637 << this incidentally is a very fine point.

asciilifeform: ( as it is, it is simply a REALLY fast block and tx flow explorer )

asciilifeform: i must confess, this is 90% of the work there will be, in any attempt to convert nqb into a btctron.

a111: Logged on 2017-03-26 15:06 mp_en_viaje: wuille comes along, "expands" for the africa box A. now the design is broken, in that item in B will correspond to both a and a'

mircea_popescu: especially because ineptly unspecified design space creates the latter possibility of a sort of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632676 which is entirely "legitimate" ie perfectly silent ☝︎

mircea_popescu: fwiw, whichj isn't much, i don't expect perelman gave much of a shit about it all before, either. not exactly "driven into" or anythjing

scriba: Logged on 2017-03-28: [23:28:09] <asciilifeform> proof was not generally understood and he "had a duty to dig out the truth of the proof". ' -- pediw.

asciilifeform: outputs also get a place to store 'who-spent', which is an index to the input who spends them (if such exists.) this is practical because the main db is not affected by reorgs (only 'nursery' is. currently i've defined 'nursery' to store the leading train of 144 blox. this is adjustible.)

asciilifeform: btw storing actual physical locations in all of the places where a tx refers to other tx, saves megatonne of time as well as space. (and in case it isn't obvious, it remains possible to reconstitute the original tx, noshit, we store the 256-bit sha2(sha2(x)) hash of a tx ONCE on the disk -- or whole thing'd be useless )

mircea_popescu: (the turkish sec, for a lol)

phf: sort of how spk was training a group of schizophrenics for revolutionary activity, making bombs, etc. the whole place blew up.

a111: Logged on 2017-03-28 22:08 ben_vulpes: in re mircea_popescu's classic "girl bouncing around on all fours for a treat": http://68.media.tumblr.com/2dcd3ac18dfdbcd51fe376d5479591cc/tumblr_nratjy81nR1rs6a2oo1_400.gif

mircea_popescu: i am enjoying a newfound love of "el condor pasa" btw. it's a fucking epic song if one reads the ORIGINAL SPANISH TEXT.

asciilifeform: only hint so far is that it's a donkeystan

phf: i just opened an openbsd laptop a second ago and it greeted me with ddb (kernel debugger on panic)

a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b

asciilifeform: phf: this was the original drepperist excuse for 'shadow banning' static linking, 'oh forget it, no MODERN!11 os has a stable abi'

asciilifeform: a la glibc.

phf: in fact, i static linked a copy of trb on a recent machine (5.6 say), and then moved it to a libretto (that was running 5.3 or whatever) and the binary booted and worked, but then silently failed on some system calls.

phf: if you're going to try crosscompiling things from one openbsd machine to your older ppc boxes make sure you have the right os versions set. the abi changes, and that bit me a few times

ben_vulpes: org-babel shat itself when a directory in the tempfiles path didn't exist up front

phf: pretty sure can go to china now, ghost write for their mathematical aristocracy. it's now a well established russian tradition

asciilifeform aspires to OneDay achieve the mega-highscore of writing a thing that 'requires' a chinese 'digger of truth'...

asciilifeform: proof was not generally understood and he "had a duty to dig out the truth of the proof". ' -- pediw.

asciilifeform: 'In September 2006, Yau established a public relations website, which disputed points in it. Seventeen mathematicians, including two quoted in the New Yorker article, posted letters of strong support. On October 17, 2006, a more sympathetic profile of Yau appeared in The New York Times. ... The article stated that Yau had alienated some colleagues, but represented Yau's position as that Perelman's