log☇︎
636600+ entries in 0.389s
asciilifeform: cristopher << brit. mitrokhin surrendered to the brits.
asciilifeform: based on supposedly-actual story, where russians noticed that staples in certain passports failed to rust.
mircea_popescu: what the FUCK has some schmuck by the name cristopher to say about the inside of the kgb ?
mircea_popescu: "mr devektorovskyi, what are we to do then ?" ☟︎
mircea_popescu: he confirms that yes they knew all about al of them, explains some of the insider jokes
mircea_popescu: finally a high level defector is taken into a manager's meeting, fed somon fume and asked politely
mircea_popescu: by the 5th or so replacement there's a distinct impression with upper cia management that the soviets are like... sending complicated insider jokes over the mole wire.
mircea_popescu: cia sends replacement mole. this also is apparently successful... buit... again
mircea_popescu: cia sends mole to inflitrate kgb. this is apparently successful, but nothing of value is ever obtained.
mircea_popescu: i meant the joke
asciilifeform: everybody knows that one.
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: much of the material stolen by mitrokhin was either boring, or too juicy to print
mircea_popescu: this "'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew" string reminds me of the "stop sending niggers then" joke. ☟︎
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: he printed a large number of variations on 'sword & shield', most repeat themselves in a genuinely dreary way
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, on a related note what's your opinion about 'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew ?
assbot: Project GNOME - Unrelated to WIPP...but nearby
decimation: when I went there was a fellow there who apparently was part of the crew that would enter the underground 'cave' formed by an explosion
decimation: in vegas off the strip there is a 'nuclear testing museum: I recommend going if you find yourself there.
asciilifeform: anyone who wants to see these ruins - suitcase, airplane, don't wait for the scrap dealers.
assbot: Project Crossroads Nuclear tests near the Bikini Atoll - Baker Shot 1946 - YouTube
decimation: asciilifeform: usg nuclear bombing ships: yeah there's the famous 'nuclear attack on fleet' bomb series at the bikini atoll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv9yS0tRFhI
asciilifeform: kanzure: nah, those're plain old ruins
asciilifeform: and i can hardly imagine that other nations didn't crib from their recipe.
kanzure: lana sator has been doing some of that archeology already
asciilifeform: soviet 'treasure burial' teams have created some very interesting (if dangerous) finds for future archaeologists.
Apocalyptic: It's more out of curiosity than out of potential usefull procedures I may apply in the future
asciilifeform: enemy will flay you and everyone you call a friend, to try to learn where it is.
asciilifeform: satan preserve you if anyone learns you had something worth using this procedure on.
asciilifeform: not just time.
Apocalyptic: i've probably wasted more time on lesser occupations
Apocalyptic: <asciilifeform> if you are reading this - it is almost certainly a terrible use of your time. // terrible as in wasted ?
asciilifeform: (when 'war game' simulations revealed that all american ships would perish within hours, they started rigging the 'games')
asciilifeform: usg also had, in that period, a fixation with gigantic naval battles
decimation: The intention might have been exactly what that video shows: wash away all the people in the city, then occupy
assbot: Wahoo and Umbrella - Filmmaker recounts nuclear test - YouTube
decimation: re: underwater nuke << use tried, worked well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y53vDnNPiA4
asciilifeform: if you are reading this - it is almost certainly a terrible use of your time. ☟︎
asciilifeform: but really this is one of those 'games where the winning move is not to play.'
asciilifeform: (i.e., how to bury, given that you will only be able to find the location again using geographical clues - and trees, buildings, etc. can disappear over the decades)
asciilifeform: worth reading solely for the 'geocaching' craft.
Apocalyptic: ty, will look that up
asciilifeform: if you somehow learn where one is - don't touch it. they were all mined.
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: there's an account in english-language 'the sword and the shield' (mitrokhin) of one swiss cache that was dug up when he tipped off the local authorities.
decimation: you quoted a story about how they recruited 'agents' in those territories?
Apocalyptic: "read about how kgb and gru hid arms caches in their opponents' territories." // any particular book in mind ?
asciilifeform: note that neither 'gps' nor its soviet equivalent existed at the time.
asciilifeform: back to topic - if you really must hide physical objects, read about how kgb and gru hid arms caches in their opponents' territories.
asciilifeform: (why? ask them)
asciilifeform: the americans, for some reason unknown to me, pre-empted this project by destroying own industry.
asciilifeform: as steam, to wash the factories with.
asciilifeform: not simply as a hiding place, but as the weapon
asciilifeform: the point of the proposal, according to legend, was to specifically make use of the water.
asciilifeform: jurov: tritium booster capsule is good for ~20 yrs.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I was about to point that out, it would be much simpler to rent a 'safehouse' and fill with nukes
asciilifeform suspects that proposal was vetoed as laughable because the nukes in russian embassies make it redundant.
jurov: afaik nukes need periodic maintenance.. would it really be feasible to do it on seabed every so often?
decimation: I suppose if they were close enough to cities that would be feasible
asciilifeform: (at the time, u.s. had industry, and a good portion of it was in that region)
decimation: in retrospect that kind of "proposal" sounds more like a 'limited hangout' kind of operation
asciilifeform: with idea being, no need to bring them to surface before firing
asciilifeform: if i recall, he also suggested they be placed in the 'great lakes'
decimation: better yet an undersea missile in a tube
asciilifeform: 'we fight like men, not thieves in the night'
asciilifeform: i later learned that v. n. chelomei (famous soviet rocket designer) proposed the placement of atomic bombs near u.s. east costs using a scheme much like this. (official story - it was vetoed as barbaric) ☟︎
decimation: I suppose if the purpose in hiding the object is simply to escape the gulag, it would be better to start planning your escape now
asciilifeform: if you have an object that is worth, say, 100k to hide and retrieve, go ahead and follow recipe. but also consider the easier 'sell it and run with the money'
asciilifeform: (after capsule pops to the surface)
asciilifeform: no need for this. a simple strobe light should suffice for night search.
decimation: which raises the question, is a reasonable hydroarray a feasible addition to said small sailboat?
asciilifeform: don't drop the treasure near 'SOSUS'
jurov: um.. but with increasing amount of ocean trash, won't you have a problem to locate the capsule once it surfaces from $ kilometers?
asciilifeform: (building a device that can fly back - exercise for alert reader.)
asciilifeform: capsule can also be flown to its resting place.
asciilifeform: if you have enemies who will follow your sailboat around in the atlantic, you have other problems that must be dealt with first.
asciilifeform: no need to buy a submarine
decimation: good point. Notwithstanding the logistics issues. The advantage to your sea-vault is that it could be (in theory) sunk with submarine, which would probably be difficult for any advanced gov't to track.
asciilifeform: drilling a hole creates a very distinct density anomaly that ground-penetrating radar sets (ask a construction co. that deals with underground pipes) readily turns up.
decimation: asciilifeform: what about "find granitic megalith (like Yosemite), build hut, dissolve deep hole using HF, then fill with concrete?
asciilifeform: ^ might be the hardest part
asciilifeform: also ensure that the hidey-hole can be found without recourse to satellite navigation.
asciilifeform: make sure capsule has enough excess buoyancy when triggered to rip itself out of the crud that sunken objects inevitably embed themselves in over time.
asciilifeform but likes the idea anyway. a few km down in sea is the closes thing nature gives us, afaik, to a 'trap door function' for physical goodies.
asciilifeform for the record doesn't own anything worth the cost of ocean capsule.
assbot: List of nocturnal animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: lower it to the thermocline.
decimation: sound waves can go thousands of miles underwater
The20YearIRCloud: how do you use a signal that will penetrate the water?
decimation: when the population is several orders of magnitude less dense, "me and my army say so" is a more realistic source of power
asciilifeform: i don't know who al might've shared the recipe with, but u.s. navy funded almost exactly this scheme as a mega-project a few years ago.
decimation: hope bolt works after time passes
decimation: asciilifeform: re: raising an army: The scale of humanity today is such that being a 'land baron' is almost impossible. Consider Mr. Yarvin's quote-of-a-quote: " As the laws of King Ine of Wessex famously put it: We use the term "thieves" if the number of men does not exceed seven, and "brigands" for a number between seven and thirty-five. Anything beyond this is an "army."
asciilifeform: sonophone trigger should only answer (with 'pop' of anchor chain) in response to key.
asciilifeform: build a capsule, of the smallest adequate size (al suggested inconel or hastalloy for the material. not cheap - but then again, it'll be a small fraction of the total cost of project)
chetty: <asciilifeform> if you own such an object, consider liquidating it and using the proceeds to buy passage to neutral country of your choice//++
asciilifeform: and buy the obligatory set of new passports / favours
asciilifeform: if you own such an object, consider liquidating it and using the proceeds to buy passage to neutral country of your choice
asciilifeform: very few physical objects are worth the cost of raising an army to keep arbitrarily large horde of orcs away
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: When I say "allodial title" I mean something like having the right to arrest anyone - including government employees - on your property
The20YearIRCloud: That's likely always the best defense
asciilifeform: forget present-day law. the pertinent question is 'who knows that you have $object'