log☇︎
61500+ entries in 0.446s
asciilifeform: (i.e. less than typical ameritard's pnoje)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: i can't picture the loose change thing being +ev << Well less ev if you get minesweeper at garage sale for 1/10th retail because initial purchaser realized -ev
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fwiw i have a very basic n00b level grasp of the constants in the equations - e.g. how much cocaine is eaten in a typical sitting, etc. so cannot comment usefully re grams
mircea_popescu: i don't even fucking take coins.
asciilifeform: i suppose there are nuts, for whom ~nothing matters
mircea_popescu: i thought you didn't think that mattered
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i can't picture the loose change thing being +ev
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> dunno that this is so -- i routinely see folx with 'minesweepers' in, e.g., parks, looking for ??? << loose change
asciilifeform: when i first heard of the practice, i also assumed 'in the forest, like gru agents' etc. -- but turns out, no, in park benches, rubbish bins.
asciilifeform: but i see nothing inherently fantastic about the notion that 1,001 derps each of whom buys a ??? of unknown purity for 1,001% markup, could be +ev vs conventional 'brick' buyer.
mircea_popescu: and if i'm going to go dig up rabbit, im not digging up a spoonfull, im digging up enough to fill freezer.
asciilifeform: for all i know -- whole thing is a fabrication
mircea_popescu: i think you're supplementing by imagination all sorts of corners. there's a cost to bury.
asciilifeform: but considering that the apparent arrangement stands and falls wholly on wotronics -- i'd guess pretty well.
asciilifeform: as for how the wotronics are managed -- i have nfi
asciilifeform: i.e. operator sits far, far away, and pays lieutenant to obtain 500g of $substance and bury. then 'packager' gets coordinates, and excavates, then reburies in aliquots of 1g
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's not patriarchy-racist or w/e
a111: Logged on 2014-02-16 22:04 asciilifeform: son: 'whatdoyamean i gotta dip them'
asciilifeform: ( re '3d print pistol', i strongly suspect that whole thing is a psyop, to distract from cheap and effective cnc milling )
asciilifeform: dunno that this is so -- i routinely see folx with 'minesweepers' in, e.g., parks, looking for ???
asciilifeform: re 'buried treasure', i'm somewhat surprised that this approach did not (afaik) catch on in usa
asciilifeform: 'i dun wanna raise an' lower the reactor rods by hand!111 too much exercise' 'ugh the indicator told me they lowered and turns out not!11 help'
Framedragger: yeah i guess that's a nice thing with deedbot, it doesn't need secret key for most of the stuff incl. challenges..
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674920 << i took a 300+km trip by train, on east coast of usa, not long ago, and it was quite a sight - carcasses of dead factories, ex-trainstations belonging to ex-towns, and other 'dead past' that 'unhappened', plain for naked eye to see ☝︎
asciilifeform: which is why on occasion i strap into the bathyscaph and go
asciilifeform: i dun post no moar
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 04:45 mircea_popescu: and in other disbeliefs, i can't imagine anyone'd fucking read that plaintive undisciplined-female-whining mailing list ffs. what the everloving fuck.
asciilifeform: i fughet when, might be in old l0gz
asciilifeform: ( why -- i will leave as an exercise )
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 19:45 asciilifeform: hypothetically i could even do it ( supposing your rsatron is mains-powered ) by observing the imperceptible dimming of the room lights, from 5km away
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 05:12 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674891 << i've been using that one for a while, with a https://www.amazon.com/CST2545-L-Trac-Wired-Performance-Trackball/dp/B00EEFK5QQ trackball in the middle. i'm pretty happy with that setup. i've figured out how to get the firmware out of the controller, so i'm hoping to customize some of the keys (that are otherwise useless)
sina: ok so I implemented some p2p encryption for the gossipd thingo
ben_vulpes: of course i need a space before the closing paren
pete_dushenski: as they do. but if you could summarise what you have to date i can tableise them and post.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: it'll grow over time, i'll letcha know
sina: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674872 << sorry I used the wrong term there, I meant the operator. what I ended up with re that query is approximately what you've got there, except it's a two step process. 1. gossipc --add-peer --name sina --host <host> --port <port> which furnishes you a pubkey you can exchange with that peer (and they vice versa with you) and a seperate command to set the peer key ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 01:11 asciilifeform: and if i can break 1, can break any and all.
ben_vulpes: mod6: yeah, i bitched about that a day or so ago; now i have stale dns
mod6: i see that http://trilema.com/2016/trilema-bot-spec/ -> http://www.contravex.com/trilema-bots-directory/
ben_vulpes: may i have R as well?
mircea_popescu: and i mean to say that if the bot always verifies after a fixed time there's... fixed time.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i mean to say in the case that the op is asleep when the bot goes offline, it'll stay that way until the op awakes
mod6: phf: nice, let me know if you get there. i'd like to re-map some of 'em too.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674891 << i've been using that one for a while, with a https://www.amazon.com/CST2545-L-Trac-Wired-Performance-Trackball/dp/B00EEFK5QQ trackball in the middle. i'm pretty happy with that setup. i've figured out how to get the firmware out of the controller, so i'm hoping to customize some of the keys (that are otherwise useless) ☝︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: well, obv this is at teh ops option. but i'd have imagined that not excepting.
mircea_popescu: coding without v and without #t. how do they do it, i have nfi.
mircea_popescu: and in other disbeliefs, i can't imagine anyone'd fucking read that plaintive undisciplined-female-whining mailing list ffs. what the everloving fuck. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-27 03:28 mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2017/06/supreme-court-lifts-lesser-court-injunctions-against-trump-travel-bans/ << i take it asciilifeform had no comment ? :D
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-27#1674899 << lol it takes time to generate commentz, i not long got back from long lulztrip ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 17:07 erlehmann: i am willing to abandon my redo efforts if v maketron suits my needs better. does there exist a v implementation in <500 lines of shell?
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2017/06/supreme-court-lifts-lesser-court-injunctions-against-trump-travel-bans/ << i take it asciilifeform had no comment ? :D ☟︎
mod6: i really like the new kb i've been using. took a little while to get use to, but hands feel good after all day typing.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-26#1674428 << i'll do this tomorrow, too displaced right nao for such werks. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-26 05:39 ben_vulpes: on the "laptops suck" thread, now that i'm using an adult workstation most of the time, my hands start hurting after a bare thirty minutes on a 13" laptop kb
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which is why i said to d00d, 'don't be disheartened '
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform see, kinda what i meant yest. while he's actually trying to implement, he discovers these things. the result may not be usable, but its building will have been useful. otherwise his only option is to nod along, not really comprehending what he's agreeing with, or to "rebel", and have "his own opinion", except also not really comprehending what he's talking about.
mircea_popescu: i don't think so.
mircea_popescu: i expect the dysentery to get them first though, judging by certain anatomic details.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-25#1674362 << speaking of bigots : so i'm walking with girl through utter shithole, true poverty area. stench of sewage in the air, houses made out of $200 in materials and so on. i spot a rabid dog by that sure sign of drooping salivation, so i go in between and keep my eye on it. ☝︎
sina: vulnerable to what, exactly, is the question? I am struggling to see how timing can be ascertained from that kind of model, but it's only a thought experiment so I can steal your brain juices
sina: I'm not sure I explained correctly. Please let me try one more time.
asciilifeform: if i have this knowledge.
asciilifeform: now i know that a certain % of the time your 'box' is spilled out of.
asciilifeform: now at some point your smm bios kicks in and spends 700ms adjusting fan speed. and i happen to know that this happens every whatever many seconds.
asciilifeform: i.e. no-branches-on-secret-bits.
asciilifeform: and the only way to make it so that i can't -- and ~probably~ so -- is to do your arithmetic in constant time.
asciilifeform: because if i can make your thing spill out of the time 'box' which you made for it, i get >0 info re your key. again.
sina: can I ask how come no?
sina: asciilifeform: how about this simpler model. Nodes only accept connections at interval N seconds, and during time between intervals it is preparing encrypted payload of all messages since last seen for each peer. so when A connects to B and says "Hi, I'm A", B responds with a pre-prepared payload encrypted for As key
sina: again, I'm not proposing my impl as "hey you should use this!", only wanted to ask you some questions re timing
sina: asciilifeform: don't pop a vein, I absolutely get your point, I was trying to explain (erroneous or otherwise) the path walked
asciilifeform: (if i can unglue the auth from the payloads, because the latter are plaintext -- IT IS HOMEOPATHIC)
asciilifeform: this is elementary, and the fact that i have to, apparently, explain this, beggars the imagination
sina: perhaps I misread
asciilifeform: you gain NOTHING from the crypto unless it is applied correctly - i.e. to whole channel.
asciilifeform: if i want this -- i will use irc.
sina: I got that impression from reading gossipd logs, obviously I didn't read everything ever because I only learned about the linespeed thing yesterday
asciilifeform: 'ohai i authenticated and now lemme say [NSA INSERTS TEXT HERE] sincerely yours, mr.chump'
sina: I assumed it was deedbot style OTP thing
sina: ok fair. see, the spec I was working from it only mentions encryption for the "session establishment" so I assumed that encryption of actual message payloads was to be with out of band encryption
sina: I think we might be speaking at corss purposes and just wish to clarify that point before proceeding
sina: can I clarify something? when you say gossipd are you assuming that all traffic is enciphered?
asciilifeform: if this is a surprise to you -- i recommend getting familiar with the basic arithmetic
asciilifeform: i can trivially tell when you've switched keys, strictly by looking at ciphertext ( is how rsa works. )
sina: why would there be a long term key? I mean, right now in the impl the process to rotate a key is manual, but if you're using ephemeral key why not just "chain" them in the sense that at the end of the "session" you pass some ciphertext that includes the next ephemeral key, wait for delivery ack and then dump the old key?
asciilifeform: and if i can break 1, can break any and all. ☟︎
asciilifeform: 1 ephemeral key. say i break the station key.
asciilifeform: that's if i break 1
sina: asciilifeform: if I'm not pestering let me throw a couple of questions. in my impl there are two secret operations, 1. key generation 2. challenge decryption. for #1, it runs in a different process on a random basis and marks a portion of the keys generated as bogus (per linked spec). that seems like it should sufficiently obfuscate against timing? for #2 is it possible to do some bogus ops in a similar
sina: I have been reading the logs, agreed they are handy
sina: ok fair point, I get the general need for constant time constant space algo regardless of gossipd stuff anyway
asciilifeform: i break ONE - i break whole chain.
sina: session may be the wrong term. I just mean, in the spec http://trilema.com/2016/gossipd-design-document/ "III. Gossipd will receive inbound connectionsvii from identified clientsviii and on the basis of that identification produce an encrypted challenge string, which constitutes its response. If the other party responds with the proper challenge string, the connection is established ; otherwise it is
asciilifeform: sina: if some % of the time i can determine how long it took you to carry out a secret key op (incl. key generation) i can determine a few bits of key. over time, i get 1/4 of them, and that is == to getting the rest.
sina: I am on the general points
mod6: everytime I think of a shoemaker/cobbler, i think of that character from A Tale Of Two Cities who used to be a Doctor before he did 18 years in the Bastille.
sina: asciilifeform: can you elaborate on timing? in my impl each peer-pair has its own set of corresponding RSA keys and I was thinking of adding something like, at the end of each session a new keypair is generated and exchanged on each side
sina: mod6: ah hehe you signed on just before I went to bed last night :P
asciilifeform: sina: i've been writing one, for some months now.
sina: I honestly didn't make it because I thought it would solve any problem, but only because I saw the spec and happen to be on holidays from work this week, thought it would be a good fun