tmsr - Search: i

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asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-09#1680939 << actually it optimizes beautifully and needs 0 bignum anythings. but i've been holding back on spoiling this olympiad for phf et al ☝︎☟︎

mircea_popescu: i don't see a closed form. then again, it's new.

mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm very much convinced that the various "oh, it's the same thing really" bad choices hash designers and implementers make, very much typified by the above "machine word so as to '''elegantly''' avoid these problems" very much plays into nsa needs. it's again that same old convenience that makes the usg usg.

a111: Logged on 2017-07-09 04:11 trinque: concretely, I would like to connect to your lisp instance from mine and be able to interrogate it for classes of objects it contains, for particular instances (i.e. there is a global notion of identity, global addressing, see threads on GNS), get instances which match some predicate...

phf: in vaguely related annoyances screw/half-screw i*POS is the likeliest candidate for overflows, and it does where your fixnum is 32 bit. go version sidesteps that issue by being 64-bit

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-08#1680544 << nope, in fact my "optimized" one i.e. the version where cmucl doesn't complain about unknown types with (speed 3) (safety 0), is about twice as slow as Go version. i'm curious why that would be the case, but haven't had a chance to investigate. ☝︎

asciilifeform: i.e. ROSATOM.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-09#1680895 << funnily enough i no longer have a single pair of boxes that share same ram stick type.. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: in other lulz, i took girl + car out on a survey of local brothels tonite. ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 00:17 sina: yes and it's understood, I'm not trying to make "gossipd for alfs dystopian future" just have some fun for me

trinque: concretely, I would like to connect to your lisp instance from mine and be able to interrogate it for classes of objects it contains, for particular instances (i.e. there is a global notion of identity, global addressing, see threads on GNS), get instances which match some predicate... ☟︎

trinque: can't just "this is how I answer" but also, "how do I ask", and "how do I know what I may ask"

mircea_popescu: and in other "unlike my mom, i'm actually good at what i do", http://68.media.tumblr.com/f4278e64cf59227db1d18fe4e0c5459a/tumblr_opv3456GKV1qilbqfo1_500.gif

sina: hmmm. I see that the point I was trying to raise yesterday has been discussed previously at high temperature: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-10#1641472 ☝︎

mircea_popescu: i dun have a general suggestion, perhaps just sit down with the whole thing and make an actual data diagram thing ?

sina: mircea_popescu: suggestions on avoiding ad-hoc datatypes? one idea I was thinking was for example rather than ../messages/<msg_hash> file with contents "sender,delivered_by,message", have a directory ../messages/<msg_hash>/sender|delivered_by|message files?

trinque: I'd say folks yes, use sqlite because they did not reason the program out completely before beginning to write code, but they often use postgresql as a messaging platform, RPC, or what have you

a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 07:21 sina: I dunno much about lisp, but I think lisp handles this better in the sense you write state into the "lisp machine" and can flush that entire state out to disk and read it therefrom as well?

mod6: <+mircea_popescu> "i don't know, baby... we'll have to ask your father..." << lol. cuckdad may want in too!

mircea_popescu: "i don't know, baby... we'll have to ask your father..."

mircea_popescu: good thing jayz is so very "controversial", i think ima go buy his album

asciilifeform: i thought 'rap' lyrics were officially required to come out of a certified an'sealed shannonizer, like las vegas one armed bandit rng

a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 10:54 sina: wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be

sina: wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be ☟︎

sina: fair. In any case I think I must retain for the purpose of "chaff" feature

sina: so I guess I do need to store them

sina: oh. I might use them for bogus data sendage though or something

sina: as I guessed :P

sina: mircea_popescu: I am guessing tmsr is not fond of things like JSON or YAML ☟︎

sina: I dunno much about lisp, but I think lisp handles this better in the sense you write state into the "lisp machine" and can flush that entire state out to disk and read it therefrom as well? ☟︎

sina: because I definitely remember in the past thinking thoughts along the lines of "filesystem is a ~btree, rdbms is a ~btree, why am I ~btree on top of ~btree", and reading discussions about this topic on the internet, and feel like I remember *someone* mentioning something about this

sina: one interesting thing is that I thought there would be some databases implemented as flat files, but I can't seem to find any

sina: I just doubt I can impl, e.g. transactions as well as sqlite guy

mircea_popescu: i am not making you! and if it dun seem like something you wanna do best not to do.

sina: agreed and understood, I am just subtly trying to make the point of "making me implement a shittier sqlite"

sina: what you said "wish to find out what key you can assign" is what I meant

sina: no, I want to assign any available key

sina: I dunno about this suggestion. for example if I want to assign an available key, I need to list the keys in /keys, then subtract from that list the list of keys in /keys/assigned and /keys/bogus ?

sina: then I either need to shell out to mv/ln

sina: cool, appreciated. so I currently have 3 tables: keys, peers, messages. let's start with keys I guess.

sina: oh yeah, the other day, inspired by ben_vulpes wotpaste I made this in golang https://github.com/sinner-/tinypaste

a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 01:11 mircea_popescu: the amusing part not yet picked up (i was expecting alf to jump) is that... it has inband encoding. "self" is a special word!

asciilifeform: ( and i dun even claim a magical handle on all that is possible. for all i know, next d00d will turn my 2.5k into 250. somehow. )

asciilifeform: the sheer gap between what is extant and what is possible - is, i suspect, unfathomable to the uninitiated and the weak of heart.

asciilifeform: ( when thin enough -- released. even if a little slow. because i want folx to begin to grasp. )

asciilifeform: i just counted gpg 1.4.10 : 156,436 loc -- and that ain't counting the autoconf liquishit, or the libs it pulls in ☟︎☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: ( for instance, i go and run on a crapple , with slower clock but larger l1, and get 1/7th the interval spent )

asciilifeform: i.e. when asciilifeform measures his $proggy runs, he is measuring at the same time a possibly unreproducible combo of ssd+ram+cpu+...

asciilifeform: incidentally i regularly go looking for 'performance numbers' for various , and it is very frustrating, largely from the ~total nonexistence of anything like standardized hardware setup

asciilifeform: i suspect that fellating hogs is better use of time than speaking to djb et al

asciilifeform: there is the use of time, of which king and slave alike has finite qty. but i can only suggest to folx, how to use it. if they want to build perpetuum mobile to 'measure whether possible' -- or trisect angle -- let'em

asciilifeform: i'm already on record as having described, in agonizing detail, why it is a monumental waste of time, but if mircea_popescu et al not convinced -- welcome to 'piss on electric fence'

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i still didn't get what i'd call good numbers / a good measurement.

ben_vulpes: i have other exciting glyph monstrosities occupying my stack these days like unicode

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ( dare i presume that you want the englisch )

ben_vulpes: i did discover epub-scale sheikh pdfs recently

ben_vulpes: relatedly, i started rereading the old testament on "kindle" this year, have been missing proper talmud for whole sojurn

asciilifeform: i went and got hold of an actual talmud, to compare.

ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: yeah, found the flag at about the same time i discovered the idiocy

mod6: oh yeah, those are the hardest to track down. i find myself having to search for very specific words and hope i find it.

asciilifeform: i'll go ' this one time mircea_popescu and asciilifeform had mega-dispute about planar tilings, where was it... or did i dream it ' and 6 hrs later..

asciilifeform: mod6: i was speaking of vintage logs, rather than backlog

mod6: yeah, i try never to get more than 1 day behind. and sometimes, i take long walks through the l0gs on various threads.

a111: Logged on 2017-07-08 02:07 mircea_popescu: mod6 i used to enjoy the luxury of multipass reads through the log. but it's under threat these days

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-08#1680538 << there are times when i spend a whole day only reading the l0gz... ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-08#1680530 << i actually attempted this , a coupla yrs ago, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=284 ☝︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ikr? i was having tea and saw l0gz and 'wtf'

ben_vulpes: am i to take from this line in the od manpage that it doesn't actually output faithfully without extra flags?

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-08#1680517 << this is quite a bit moar 'mean gurlz' than actually in play, phf. i dun give anything like the suggested amount of fuck. the educable - learn, the rest - will learn by pissing on the electric fence personally; or, when far too late, already having 'fucked the cousin' etc. ☝︎

asciilifeform: ( and iirc i already explained this in agonizingly pedantic detail. but apparently the requisite lines in the l0gz are magically invisible..? or wut )

asciilifeform: and partly in that i find the 'prototype' that solves 0 of the difficult problems, simply not interesting. i can write a perlism that pushes shitrsa packets over tcp etc. in half hour. but why.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-08#1680511 << partly it is that i'd like to do a fair share of keeping the snr high, by... ~not having same thread 9000 times~, see if perhaps the l0gz will do their bit and answer ' what does asciilifeform say to X ? ' q for those folx who have it ☝︎

mod6: as a way to teach it to myself, i've been poking around with a v impl.

sina: ok going out again, will consider some more, but I do wonder

sina: I mean, all data is unicode AFAIK

mircea_popescu: sina simple example and i don't pretend like this is useful : /assignments/0f0a.txt contains or does not contain "hurrdurr". by checking if it does you know hurrdurr is assigned to 0f0a.

mod6: i gotta look at this code again here

sina: mircea_popescu: I guess the gist of the question is really, how is implementing my own btree different at all to using the pretty much identical thing in sqlite

sina: although I don't get that either now that I think about it, how does the "assignments" file know which key is which?

sina: mircea_popescu: but still even in that case I need to "walk" the list of assignments, looking for ^available, so I need to use grep or write a iterating-finder-thingo myself and then something like sed to change the line or write a text-changer-at-a-line myself

sina: ok true, I didn't think of that

mircea_popescu: sina i don't get it ? make file with keys, make file with assignments. why mv ?

mircea_popescu: i don't know it has to be shitty, unless there's some other constraint, like "make it overnight"

sina: and now if I want to do it in flatfile, gossipd code becomes gossipd + "sinas shitty db-less attempt"

sina: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-08#1680437 << why I used a db: because the spec said use flatfile, I first tried to implement flatfile one and after realising I would need to either shell out to utilities like "touch" and/or "find"/"ls" etc, or implement some of their functionality myself, I decided to import a library that does that stuff not terribly, called sqlite ☝︎

sina: I return, temporarily

mircea_popescu: mod6 i used to enjoy the luxury of multipass reads through the log. but it's under threat these days ☟︎

mod6: i think it's highly interesting, but indeed, there's a lot of depth. sometimes takes a while to grok the threads. that's my own personal take. getting old, not for me anyway.

phf: that's a tricky request, but the tenets are around shitlangs differentiation, "fits in head", v as a way of releasing code, what it means to own a piece of technology. there's a handful of threads that had definitive conclusions, that i consider tenets (i think the word should be in quotes to indicate that while not true tenets, violating them will require reopening large threads)

mod6: in this case, even the sina has said so himself, is a simple prototype. i find prototypes to be typically worth making. often there is something to be learned from them.

phf: or perhaps now that he has successfully served as the main driving force behind the tenets of tmsr technology and ensured that they are collectively accepted, he doesn't need to reaffirm them as much. but i also have wonder if the tenets have as much of a galvanizing effect now that we mostly had a chance to observe both their positive and negative effects?

mircea_popescu: wait, what ? i dunno what you just said

phf: i think that it's mostly your works. his patterns are better known, there's been damping, etc.

mircea_popescu: the amusing part not yet picked up (i was expecting alf to jump) is that... it has inband encoding. "self" is a special word! ☟︎

mircea_popescu: i guess i do lol

asciilifeform: compilers for braindamaged archs ( i.e. all extant archs ) are rather 'socialism' flavoured, in that you're stuck forcing 'unprincipled exceptions' (inline asm) if you want to use anything close to the iron's full capacity

mircea_popescu: i suppose it's actually my bad, they called it optimizing assembler back then for some reason.

asciilifeform: phf: is the only one i know of, yes

asciilifeform: i suspect that the culprit is cheap cpu cycles. in msdos age, ~every proggy read/wrote wholly custom datastructures from/to disk

asciilifeform: i learned of the consequences of the sin, in the most painful way, by committing it.