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mircea_popescu: no recourse real estate deals are in the vast majority of the time attempts by some crown or other to hike the land values.

asciilifeform: how can it work in the latter case, payer stops paying and keeps the goods ?

mircea_popescu: the former are mortgages proper (if the payer goes bust you get the item and that is all) , the latter are commercial paper (if the payer goes bust you suck it).

asciilifeform: how does that even work

mircea_popescu: the trick is to not write that many donations while alive

asciilifeform: and the money consists of what 'is worth now' according to magic arse rng

asciilifeform: that is, if you default they take money+house

asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu is right re: earlier observation that the mega-bubble didn't seem to kill anyone

mircea_popescu: (which is why i won't take a mortgage deal that has recourse past the item bought, nor would any sane businessman. yet usian idiot consumers regularly do, because hey. they've come to expectorate.)

mircea_popescu: but that aside : the terms of the loan specify the recourse, and that's that.

mircea_popescu: this sort of counterfactual is a tad nonsensical.

mircea_popescu: consider the bank loans you money for a mortgage, and tomorrow houses go for 2 dollars each.

asciilifeform: defined strictly for the purpose of this line of inquiry as 'that which might cause btc sphincters to tighten and less to be spent tomorrow'

mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as the "exchange value of money". money is the one thing without an exchange value, being the exchange value of all things.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the explanation is that "exchange value of btc" is a broadly meaningless notion, and only vaguely useful as a temporary crutch.

mircea_popescu: buncha threads from 2011/2012 prolly very informative for this topic

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is your explanation essentially that exchange value of btc (in the secular world at large, not speaking of usd in particular) and the btc income of a well-organized business are tightly coupled and the 'rope never breaks' ?

mircea_popescu: anywya, it was a point long discussed (among the financial minds) that the nature of btc makes distinction of loans and equity difficult. this was principally centered around the mpoe bonds back when those ran.

thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i would say this is true for the zero asset corporations. the non-zero asset corporations seem to be holdling their own, but too early to tell.

mircea_popescu: bitbet largest revenue to date is not when btc was 3 bux

asciilifeform: btc heats up, begins to climb, revenue drops..

mircea_popescu: actual bitcoin companies, such as for instance listed on mpex, generally don't have the problem.

mircea_popescu: imaginary sources of bitcoin, pretend "bitcoin businesses" like coinbase or w/e suffer from the problem ytou describe

thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: but what if your revenue stream is no longer a stream but a trickle like man with swollen protrate trying to pee?

asciilifeform: say, you are in the habit of selling $gizmos for btc

mircea_popescu: this is not true.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: problem is that most sources of bitcoin revenue are made of flesh and likely to suffer damage on hypothetical 'day x'

asciilifeform: ^ if above reasoning is flawed, i'd like to learn how

mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> but that was interest free loan no? << no.

mircea_popescu: thestringpuller these things aren't related. bitcoin has been fine for credit for years. idiots aren't or ever will be ready for life.

thestringpuller: asciilifeform: then in that case entire meatspace family is in servitude? wasn't this a thing in history? Can't repay debt so X generation of people are slaves?

asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what somebody's worth as a slave is still a finite sum, that isn't especially difficult to come up with (ask the romans)

asciilifeform: (you lose 1btc because poor schmuck couldn't come up the the ten sets of organs, only one, and you lost most of what you lent him)

asciilifeform: (let's say tomorrow's 'day x' and 1 btc > your organs)

asciilifeform: (though it is potentially - and thus, in fact is - an infinite-liability deal; how can you guarantee that you will find the coin to repay)

thestringpuller: but that was interest free loan no?

thestringpuller: ah I guess the liquidity loan from F.MPIF -> S.WOL is similar

thestringpuller: random point: do you think bitcoin will ever be ready for credit?

mircea_popescu: i imagine this must be cribbed off one

mircea_popescu: sadly i don't have credit cards, as i don't subscribe to open liability deals. but i wonder what the original texts say

asciilifeform: or, to the spamz0r's great misfortune - exactly once.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im sure it's all the same. but the point being... this works ?

asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu appears to get exactly the same spam as my spam-magnet, turd for turd

mircea_popescu: Theodore Sturgeon, respected creative and prolific science fiction author, shed the following offhand remark which instantly codified as Sturgeon's Law: "90% of everything is shit." One might visit a university library and walk through Women's Studies or hyphenated-American literature areas and wonder where Sturgeon's 10% is cloistered. Why pay parking fees? The 90% will come knocking at your door, then break it down d

mircea_popescu: dude, the fucking notion that this shit sounds credible.

mircea_popescu: 2015. As the Primary Contact, you must verify your credit card activity before you can

pete_dushenski: http://dangerousminds.net/comments/vintage_purses_with_bold_feminist_slogans << what do you even say to a girl who sports a purse that says 'choice' or 'my body my business' ?

lobbes: So one defines their own data types in ADA? I'm not sure why I find that interesting

pete_dushenski: PeterL: to say nothing of the bears !

PeterL: pete_dushenski: not that they wear out, of course, but they snap like a twig in the cold << the dangers of living in a frozen wasteland

jurov: bundle ready for tickets

pete_dushenski: not that they wear out, of course, but they snap like a twig in the cold

pete_dushenski: the lifespan of the polymer bills is already mediocre

pete_dushenski: spocking "may interfere with the security features and reduces its lifespan."

assbot: Bank of Canada urges ‘Star Trek’ fans to stop ‘Spocking’ their fivers | Dangerous Minds ... ( http://bit.ly/1BIxgjm )

PeterL: programs should be boringly obvious what they are doing?

asciilifeform: but the result adds up to the fact that there will never, ever be an 'underhanded ada contest'

asciilifeform: PeterL: has many things that feel 'heavy'

PeterL: well, it has the same named closing tags like you complain about in html (begin thing ... end thing)

asciilifeform: it's numbered like a bible - for folks to quote chapter & verse.

asciilifeform: there is even a 'rationale' document (also book) ready to argue with you ☟︎

asciilifeform: and find that you are actually snipping off a living organ and not dead weight.

asciilifeform: then you actually read a book and try to think of which 'verbosity' could be cut

PeterL: in my initial introduction to ada, it seems verbose, with extra words hanging around where a symbol could work just fine

asciilifeform: but even it contributes to the actual purpose of the thing.

asciilifeform: PeterL: the pascal syntax mostly

asciilifeform: 'it's not sexy. whaddayamean i have to specify thing'

asciilifeform: PeterL: but you'll find that much of what programmers actually object to in ada is precisely the good parts ☟︎

PeterL: ok, I'll get right on that

asciilifeform: PeterL: it's ugly as sin, and originally usg-promulgated, but that doesn't change the facts.

asciilifeform: PeterL: there is precisely one such language in existence.

asciilifeform: PeterL: life-critical embedded systems must be written in a typesafe, bound-safe standardized language with hard-real time run (that means no garbage collection) and static memory alloc.

thestringpuller: this compels me to learn the language more.

PeterL: and this is what you want people to use?

asciilifeform: never fails to bring back 'vietnam'

asciilifeform: thestringpuller: try 'scheme' on him

thestringpuller: asciilifeform: so brought up ADA at work, and coworker started having Vietnam-esque flashbacks from school. Is this normal behavior?

asciilifeform: thestringpuller: 'scatter the pieces'

assbot: Logged on 16-01-2015 23:44:58; *: asciilifeform was simply floored with mindfuck that anyone would choose google's turdlang for a piece of critical infrastructure, and could not resist ringing the bell

asciilifeform: PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2015#979697 << see old thread ☝︎

thestringpuller: asciilifeform: what is rule #1 of the undead?

asciilifeform: how many of these do we need before we can shoot it in the head and forget ?

BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Kid's not hopeless though. He was luck enough to make it in the place where he could ask questions and people were polite enough to point him where to start the reading. Rest is on him.

thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: not everyone can make the journey tho.

BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Kid's just been hit with the discovery he's got a year of learning and unlearning to get to zero. Just maybe this one gets there.

PeterL: aha, thanks

BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Well what follows is "#PSA: using @golang's "go get" on conference wifi is equivalent to running a passwordless telnet server on your laptop. srs shame on go devs"

PeterL: other people realizing the dangers of dependencies?

assbot: I just realized /hashtag/golang?src=hash's "go get" falls back to HTTP when HTTPS fails ☹ /hashtag/RussianRouletteSoftwareDistribution?src=hash /hashtag/CurlPipeSudoBash?src=hash /hashtag/yolo?src=hash /E_I_T ☟︎

ben_vulpes: sjsqd: also, don't poison the well against yourself.

pete_dushenski: http://www.diseno-art.com/images_7/hughes-h-4-spruce-goose-lar.jpg << nearly twice the length of 737-800, all wood

assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 06:18:52; decimation: asciilifeform: inside a tu-95 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSVtYib8StY < note the straight key against the outside bulkhead at the comms position

pete_dushenski: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041083 << impressive. brings to mind 'spruce goose'

BingoBoingo: sjsqd: Just don't burn too much time on conversation here before you get to understanding a large part of the *why* the (dot)foundation does things as peculiarly as they do. A good amount of history there.

sjsqd: Yes I will. I can already see part of the reasoning when it comes to transparency.

BingoBoingo: sjsqd: Try to understand why the second (dot)foundation was discovered necessary

BingoBoingo: sjsqd: Read the logs a while and come back later

pete_dushenski: i hadn't quite appreciated the size of the undertaking when i started

assbot: Kerckhoffs’ history and principles of military cryptography, translated and adnotated. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/17RoW4G )

pete_dushenski: now that it's a bit quieter in here: http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/04/kerckhoffs-history-and-principles-of-military-cryptography-translated-and-adnotated/ ☟︎