444400+ entries in 0.286s
ascii_field: decimation: now you have a human slave in
the loop
ben_vulpes: decimation: but
then people would have
to
touch it !!111twelve1
ascii_field: which yes, you can defend against with crude kludges like storing sums, but
this is 'enumerated badness'
decimation: I donno, it strikes me
that having a sundial and knowing how
to use it (convert
to universal
time) is a pretty cheap counter
ascii_field: or feeding a whole alternate universe
to a virginal (has nothing but genesis) node
ben_vulpes: aha
the one where you simply hold difficulty constant and mine a long-ass chain.
ascii_field: certain variants of
the attack are prohibitively costly, yes
ben_vulpes: i'm sure you've gone into
this in depth, but doesn't
the length of
the current main chain make
that ludicrously expensive?
ascii_field: (will accept blocks
that are not, by
the
traditional bitcoin rules, valid. and predicate acceptance of future blocks on
these
turds - which is what 'accept a block' means)
funkenstein_: consider a node
that passes on valid
TXs, checks new blocks for proper work and passes
them on. it ignores
timestamps and lets miners say what current difficulty is. useless or not?
ascii_field: devils who do whatever it
takes
to camouflage as men
ascii_field: and now compound
the problem by supposing
that it is not you and your best friend, but you and a network consisting,
to an unknown degree, of devils
ascii_field: say
they own very poor clocks, which drift by a second - or more - per minute.
ascii_field: let's suppose
they
traded pgp keys and can communicate securely. however,
they cannot prevent
the enemy from delaying messages
decimation: they don't own clocks and can't see
the sunrise and don't know where
they are
too?
ascii_field: two (at minimum) geographically separated people, with enemies in between, wish
to agree re: how much
time has passed since
they last spoke, 2016 blocks ago.
ascii_field: we already know how
to meet and set clocks, last i checked
decimation: if you have a submarine, you probably ought
to have high quality
timekeeping equipment
decimation: then you ought
to have made preparations
ascii_field: and what of when you cannot see
the sunrise ?
lobbes: plus,
then you are back
to 'who sets
the clocks' problem
decimation: yeah. ultimately a
thinking person can observe sunrise, sunset, set own clock (calendar might be another matter)
ascii_field: decimation:
thinking more of hacks like rf detection of sunspot cycle
decimation: if usg can spam uv over a large area for hours,
then you probably have bigger problems
than money
ascii_field: and, on
the other end, require specialized hardware
ascii_field: not only because
they are not reliably detectable (rain, clouds, being in a submarine)
decimation: perhaps
the pogo should come with a sunlight detector
ascii_field: it just has
to be a reasonably-periodic signal
that all nodes can see, whose period is not affected by
the aggregate hash rate, nor can be manipulated at reasonable expense by gnomes
ascii_field: anyway, since
this
thread came back
to life, i will point out
that mircea_popescu is right re:
the notion of
time being necessary for a bitcoin net. but it doesn't have
to come from a clock as
traditionally understood
ascii_field: (typically, abandoned mine filled with salt water and
thousands of photomultiplier
tubes on
the walls, each
the size of a man's
torso)
ascii_field: examine
the construction of a neutrino observatory.
ascii_field: and, considering
the famous formula ('50/50 interactions when passing
through light-year of lead') portable detector is a questionable affair
decimation: you might be able
to determine
the angle of
the sun w.r.t.
the earth's surface
ascii_field: afaik
there is no useful
timing info in solar neutrono flows
decimation: actually it would be neat
to build a nutrino detector
decimation: in fact, someone who depises 'astronomical
time' in favor of cesium
time is also fully in favor of 'usg
time'
decimation: re: political
time < it occurred
to me
that
the far more obvious way of synchronizing a clock is
to simply
take note of
the sunrise and/or sunset
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 12-08-2014 00:44:36; mjr_: by
the way, anyone gonna
tell me if i can play
this game where i can buy
things with bitcoin?
decimation: who would be lost in
the unwashed 1st std deviation anyway
decimation: but
two iq 90 parents are likely
to have children
that score a little closer
to 100
decimation: I suppose
tragically stupid parents are likely
to have slightly smarter children
decimation: re: stupid breeding
true < I
thought 'reversion
to
the population mean' was
the general outcome
trinque can see he will never earn
the honorific "the
Terrible"
trinque: maybe someone
that secretly collects human skin furniture
then
trinque: if he in fact has
the capability,
then
the empathy which might cause him
to accept someone else's perspective instead would only be a hindrance
☟︎ trinque: ascii_field: it would make a great deal of sense
to me if
there were a connection between
this kind of intelligence and personality
traits which cause him
to have a much lower default level of regard for any particular human off
the street.
jborkl: although I have just been watching from
the sideline for a long
time (not active)
jborkl: possible,
there are a
ton of waiting
txns either way and
the spike has been recently
jborkl: The way it has been before, not all nodes have
the same amount of
txns in mempool - I never got enough of a explanation
to discuss it
trinque: rather,
that
they have a greater capacity for ...
trinque: ascii_field: by good RNG do you mean
that
they are capable of novel
thoughts?
ascii_field: what makes
the exam champ
the waste of oxygen
that he is ?
☟︎ trinque: and
the latter has his own idea
trinque: sure, and
the former is deeply embedded in a group concept of what he ought
to be doing
ascii_field: i.e. 'champion at exams' vs
the other kind.
ascii_field: trinque: i am certain
that, just like everyone else here, you have met both kinds of 'intelligence'
trinque: I do not follow
that definition either
trinque: ascii_field: I am promting you
to define
the
term instead of merely restating it
ascii_field: nothing
to do with relating
to other people.
ascii_field: if you must reduce it
to a soundbite - it is just a measure of
the quality of
the rng in your head
trinque: ascii_field:
then is it a measure of
the willingness
to fight other people?
ascii_field: specifically, you can have arbitrarily high 'psychoticism' in
the sense of being perelman and no 'dominance' or 'social supernode'
to speak of.
ascii_field: one can have one coming out of ears and arse, and lack
the other entirely
☟︎ ascii_field: mircea_popescu chronically links
the
two, but
they are entirely independent
trinque: ascii_field: something like
the combination of dominance and being a social supernode?
trinque: old norse probably had an honorable
term for
the
thing
ascii_field does not have
the link with him. if anyone recalls
the answer, do chime in
ascii_field: interestingly, old norse, even, had a very specific word for
this
trait
☟︎ ascii_field: which is
the
thing without which arbitrarily strong 'intelligence' ends up a chinese exam
taker
ascii_field: trinque: also most folks who idly ponder
the subject end up conflating several distinct
things under 'intelligence'
trinque: ah
that intelligence is not necessarily passed down genetically?
ascii_field: trinque: intelligence doesn't breed
true. (stupidity, however, does.
this confuses folks)
trinque: mats: but
then even if
the stupid
tend
to die more often, it could still be so
that
the stupid back home fuck enough
to replenish stocks
ascii_field: '12 years public school, 4 years undergrad, 6 years PhD, 4 years post-doc. You are now over 30, deeply in debt, and starting life. Your idiot high school classmate who held a STOP sign at a construction site has been pulling $80K/year, has a fine home, wife,
three kids, and a motor boat. His eldest son rakes in $850K/year
tax-free facilitating recreational pharmaceuticals and an escort service.' << schwartz
☟︎ trinque: "unskilled laborers died more often
than ..." << maybe something like
that
trinque: there'd have
to be some correlation between an indicator of
this redundancy before
the war and which soldiers died
mats: how do we evaluate
this claim
trinque: and
they sustained huge casualties
trinque: mats: I am not finding a good graph of
the russian population per year, yet I recall ww2 being a
temporary blip downward
that was rapidly recovered
ascii_field: 'If you want
to end ISIS,
teach it game
theory and casebooks. "They['ll] get out
their linear programming charts, statistical decision
theories, minimax solutions, and compute
the price-cost probabilities of
their
transactions and investments, just like we do," and lose.' (from
the al schwartz link earlier)
☟︎ trinque: bounces right back after
the war, if
there's a dip at all