log☇︎
44600+ entries in 0.027s
mircea_popescu: bvt there's reasons we picked gcc 4.8/9
asciilifeform: fwiw mine also worked ( i.e. didn't bomb in bvt't test ) on zcx. but not tried sjlj yet.
bvt: nope, zcx. sjlj can the next step
bvt: ran the tests for exceptions race, libgcc is fine in gcc4.9, locks are in place, so it seems that it is indeed another gcc5ism
bvt: hello. quick report: i bootstrapped avegnat using asciilifeform's tar (thanks!), had to change the the paths in linker scripts and la-files, will make a post on that.
asciilifeform: i can see that it might have to let go of any locks it holds, but what if holds none ? this is easily shown at compile time
asciilifeform currently wonders why the fuck an aborted thread needs to unwind its stack frame by frame, it has no further biz in this world after it stops, so wtf even for, new thread gets entirely new stack
asciilifeform: and hrm, loox like we still dun have a genesis for this thing
asciilifeform: would also like to see wtf i did to the -j32 thing
asciilifeform: not to mention 'test may reveal presence of bug, but never absence'(tm)(r)
asciilifeform: notyetwunderbar, still gotta 1) sjlj 2) try test w/ naked one and see if pill even necessary
asciilifeform: looking in the log, iirc diana_coman had same issue, & cured
asciilifeform: but this is with zcx. then went to build with sjlj, found, grr, that it :
asciilifeform: result : builds with bvt's patch with 0 eggogs, his tarball test functions 100x w/out segfault
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/the-secret-of-santa-vittoria/ << Trilema -- The Secret of Santa Vittoria
asciilifeform: aand it built. nao to see ~what~ built..
asciilifeform wonders if he's the only 1 who is disgusted at released opensores 'flagship' soft that builds with 9000km of warningolade
asciilifeform: ( will do after this one )
asciilifeform: realized when i woke up that really oughta have first tried plain-old sjljistic ave1-gnat , and see if this cure is even necessary there
mircea_popescu: it's such a wonder to me that thing links.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this run is a test of bvt's 'kill weaksymbol-ism' pill
asciilifeform: ( the fact that diana_coman's built in ~1h, suggests that i broke my local config there )
asciilifeform: looking at the kilometre of bash that comes with the thing, for the answr
asciilifeform: really this whole thing oughta take ~30m on dulap ( 32 cpu )
asciilifeform: strangely , the -j32 thing aint working for good chunk of the build, possibly dun apply to the bootstrap gnat..?
asciilifeform: sadly had to restart the experimental build ~2h ago, botched the config last night
asciilifeform: i'ma put whole thing in a signed manifest
mircea_popescu: this is a good idea. put the hashes somewhere and there you go.
asciilifeform: ave1: i changed mine to work from local copy of the tars, back when first tested. is there anyffin else new in the sept. ver.?
a111: Logged on 2019-02-18 06:13 ave1: asciilifeform, the september version is not only static but also some download links fixing, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-18#1897851
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-18#1897858 -> ah, so broken links were only in the older versions? anyway: ave1 please do me a favour and point any fetch/download scripts to a mirror of the stuff on your own website, there is no way around this. For one thing I'd much rather download from a republican site and for the other as experience has already amply shown, any external site WILL move them, change them, drop them and it will at best br ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 14:27 feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/084-gutenberg-ii.html << The Tar Pit -- gutenberg.org part zwei, a dissection
ave1: also, I was working on the september version, but I'm currenlty stuck on the aarch64 port, something with the jmps, files being undefined etc.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-18 03:18 asciilifeform set up a rebuild of ave1 gnat (june) on dulap, with http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting-part-2/comment-page-1/#selection-163.2-167.52 . tomorrow will see what came out of this.
ave1: asciilifeform, the september version is not only static but also some download links fixing, http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-18#1897851 ☝︎☟︎
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/mamma-roma/ << Trilema -- Mamma Roma
asciilifeform: mummification is for dirty orcs, apparently; here , 'advanced', will instead have his 3d animated corpse 'speak' deep troofinesses 4evah
asciilifeform set up a rebuild of ave1 gnat (june) on dulap, with http://bvt-trace.net/2019/02/gnat-zero-cost-exceptions-and-asynchronous-task-aborting-part-2/comment-page-1/#selection-163.2-167.52 . tomorrow will see what came out of this. ☟︎
asciilifeform: 'hey do you have king lear?' 'lemme open the disk binder and look for 'the english', iirc it's next to 'the greeks'
asciilifeform: ... then can mirror ~that~, and fughet about the orig shitenberg
asciilifeform expects that it'll fit, compressed, on 1 cd
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 14:27 feedbot: http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/084-gutenberg-ii.html << The Tar Pit -- gutenberg.org part zwei, a dissection
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897404 << before this gets lost in the chaos of gcc vivisections -- spyked , would be interesting to pry apart the zips & deduplicate , see what the actual text mass adds up to ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform was in a public place where tv on the wall, and guess what was shown : mccain. apparently not dead enuff ( 'freshly uncrated' taped blather, near as i could tell. )
BingoBoingo: Or lacking the backbone to stand up to his wife's boyfriend.
BingoBoingo: Guy sounds a lot like Jack, stuck trying to raise his wife's son.
BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2019/get-lost-dumbo/#selection-1953.0-1961.24 << His baby wouldn't happen to be left handed would he?
asciilifeform: ( this is where i point out, that the fabled 'sane iron' isn't simply a purely aesthetic win to ticke asciilifeform's aestheticles, but in fact substantially cuts down on the complexity of ~all other sane items~ that are to stand on top of it )
asciilifeform: if we had a sane iron, would be similarly easy to produce a back end ( and that's what asciilifeform thinks of as 'ada machine' ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: re bolix back end, i suspect it aint very useful as starting point, because was far ~too easy~ item , in that the iron per se was sane (i.e. performed bounds and type checks, so much of what gcc is stuck doing in soft, was unnecessary ) ☟︎
asciilifeform: ftr much easier for a sane iron ( with small instruction set ) like mips, than for x86.
asciilifeform: the other thing that makes backend a bitch is that ~100% of the work has to be done again and again, for each iron.
asciilifeform: it's why ~errybody is using gcc's (incl. the folx pretending not to)
asciilifeform: ( for n00bz: ) writing a compiler back-end aint actually hard. asciilifeform & many many other folx, did it ~as homework~ , at school. the hard thing is writing a ~decent~ optimizing backend. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: problem with all this is -- the option's always between trust and knowledge. since we've discovered we can't trust gcc, it follows not only that we now have to write our own ; but that we must maintain the people who know how to write one.
asciilifeform: at the very least, theirs is 50x moar compact than gcc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: potentially retargetable. but currently nfi if this is a useful shortcut to 'bake a backend'
asciilifeform: could propose that there is a (3) , if one of the closed $maxint winshit adas actually implemented own, rather than stealing gcc's
mircea_popescu: except latter only works for their own iron.
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, i suspect there are a grand total of ~two~ ada back ends in existence : 1) the Official adacorpse one , sewed out of gcc ( the 'fsf gnat' is simply old copy of same )
BingoBoingo: That's all I've got to guess atm
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i'm still curious what mircea_popescu thinks of as 'ada machine' << 128 bit MIPS 1, 2, 8, or 72 cores at 800, 1600, or 3200 mhz when purpose backed. Otherwise 128 bit for the UCI address space.
asciilifeform: y'know, the part that actually pisses out e.g. x86 instrs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the other major chunk of c, is of course the gcc backend.
BingoBoingo: A large number of the folks who did or in the past would have started a forum are in the Google/Youtube hugbox or similar "watermelon farms"
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'm "knocking" on a few doors. The "polite way" hasn't been very productive, so the rapeful way is appearing very necessary. Haven't hear anything from the "Proud Boys", excess of ego appears to be a defect of the dwindling population of forum operators.
asciilifeform: i linked the udp thing for a reason -- wrappers inescapably look like 'chunk of c', cuz headerola.
mircea_popescu: one advantage to c's retardation is that well... as long as you feed it the shit it expects, it'll work in the same manner as before.
mircea_popescu: though if possible, i'd just move the wrappers to ada first.
mircea_popescu: entirely possible we'll have to do kernel-and-rest in one gulp
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thinking about it, kernel is really the starting point for 'get c the hell off the box' -- the e.g. 20% of gnat's standard lib that's in c, is in c strictly cuz of reason illustrate in http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=udp , i.e. that kernel api doesn't eat sane (e.g. bounded array) parameters, demands liquishit c-istic buffers
asciilifeform: is this actually in the worx ? or still chalkboard
mircea_popescu: me too.
asciilifeform: i'm still curious what mircea_popescu thinks of as 'ada machine'
mircea_popescu: i suspect ada machine can be made with much tinier kernel tho.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: by far biggest 'layer of c' is : the kernel.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, All these names that had burned out completely before I showed up a few months later. History!
BingoBoingo: Apparently a UStard seriously underestimating what he paid in total taxes
mircea_popescu hasn't even the faintest who dood even was
a111: Logged on 2012-09-16 00:43 mircea_popescu: this is how we educate kids in europe
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 17:37 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plox to expand re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897758
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897763 << currently ada depends on a layer of c to do basic things such as abort. this can not stand, esp if we want an ada machine. that writing to irq table will have to happen through ada code, not calling c. ☝︎
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/02/chicago-actor-hired-nigerian-brothers-to-stage-hate-crime-hoax-indignant-at-getting-caught/ << Qntra -- Chicago Actor Hired Nigerian Brothers To Stage Hate Crime Hoax, Indignant At Getting Caught
asciilifeform: ( the very need for locking, on software level, for instance, comes from the absence of any sane mechanism for corralling data to particular cpu )
asciilifeform: all of this might seem uninteresting until you realize that this is what sits under all threading, no matter how implemented on os side.
asciilifeform: ( ever wonder why cannot make 'unhangable' os for multi-cpu pc ? this is why )
asciilifeform: afaik none of'em, however (with possible exception of sgi's) have semantics such that multiple processors dun share a bottleneck at the interrupt controller
asciilifeform: 'younger' archs that were baked with decent # of interrupts to begin with, have ~slightly~ less retarded subsystem
asciilifeform: this was 'fixed' by intel (with obscene amt of direct standard authorship by microshit) by making the controller 9000x moar complex
asciilifeform: ( incidentally, when asciilifeform speaks of 'iron babel', interrupts are a screamingly concrete example : there is ~no uniformity b/w archs re how they're implemented (does it save regs ? which ? what happens if two interrupts temporally near ? ) or how many , or for what devices, etc )
asciilifeform: possibly i oughta add the detail, that $item is like any other machine i/o-ism -- on bare irons, it writes to the irq table ( whatever shape that has on $irons ) , on unixen it yes uses signals, because wtf else can you do there, on (hypothetical) msdos gnat, will again write to irq table, on boxen without interrupts -- will give eggog on build, what else; etc
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 17:16 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897750 << tested nothing. fixed, gotta be ada not c.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plox to expand re http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897758 ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: he can use it to crush hymenoptera for all i care, just as long as it contains the correct set of software.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 16:10 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform still gotta build the ada environment ~with something~.
mircea_popescu: also, subtle point in http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897708 bears belabouring : the point is to standardize ~the tools~, not necessarily (in order) their usage, or end products. the idea is for user to know what to expect if builting a tmsr box, and why he expects that, not necessarily what he can do with it. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 16:26 asciilifeform: ada.interrupts ~will~ have to be tested, it's a must for 'bare irons' adaisms as a class.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-02-17#1897750 << tested nothing. fixed, gotta be ada not c. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 16:21 asciilifeform: ( e.g. asciilifeform was quite surprised when found that trb and ALL deps built cleanly & functioned on static musl )
a111: Logged on 2019-02-17 16:21 asciilifeform: rrright, was curious re the volume of barfola