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trinque: the charge I made was that range 0 is an implicit metadata fetch. why implicit?

mircea_popescu: but i can get, eg, a table's current index position

trinque: if I were to hamhandedly bash this into http, there'd be no headers. you'd get that information from another ULR

trinque: I can select from a table that is the table of columns, for example

trinque: sql would be a system where I'd consider the metadata properly designed, in that there isn't a difference in the way it's represented, or retrieved

trinque: lol, I was speaking practically. though I'm glad it did prompt the other.

mircea_popescu: trinque i meant strictly from a logical perspective.

trinque: sure, if http is understood that it always hands back headers, and these are decided to exclude the "I want an item of x length and no further" then get with range 0 offset 0 would hand back only headers

trinque: the thing's so steeped in "the way things are" I daren't comment further

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 17:11 asciilifeform: so i suppose we have different personalexperiencesingoodfaith

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779651 << the correct statement would be, "you have experiences in good faith and i have imaginations in good faith, that i don't bother to check nor do i ever sit down to reason as to what THAT implies re faith" ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 17:08 asciilifeform: why not give example. e.g. 'i crawl www and google doesn't support ranged GET'

mircea_popescu: if i tell you i wish to see the file x except not any of its content this is logically equivalent, quite directly, to "metadata only plox"

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 16:59 trinque: if you tell me offset 0 range 0 I should ignore you entirely

asciilifeform: ( where, say, i can have local list of jsoids signed by actual people, that machine will willingly load, and no others )

asciilifeform: ~invariably the first MB or so ( i wish this were joak ) contains only liquishit

mircea_popescu: if my loading of a web page dies 10kb in, i want that 10kb to have contained the article, not some "template" fugly.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and observe that the turdmeisters implemented elaborate hacks ( i.e. realtime DOM modification ) ~just so that ad crapolade loads first~

mircea_popescu: "immutable" still enforced by server only. tomorrow i can decide to make a whole diff tree and gl to you.

asciilifeform: not long ago i loaded a 'torrent' that was first put up ~7yrs ago. because somebody still mirrored.

asciilifeform: ( and i suspect original will not even be muchly remembered , sorta like how ~nobody nostalgiates for ibm mainframe liquishit )

a111: Logged on 2016-06-28 03:58 mircea_popescu: trinque tbh, i think wikis are a (braindamaged, dysfunctional, uncomprehending) response to the html-is-broken / transclusion issue discussed yest and etc.

asciilifeform: i suspect -- because he didn't have v

mircea_popescu: so in point of fact saying "why would alternate views exist" is facetious, i listed like 4 in five minutes.

asciilifeform: i think mircea_popescu grasps the idea.

mircea_popescu: consider the hack i did recently for hanbot

mircea_popescu: i dunno.

mircea_popescu: "i want trilema as rss not trilema as main page" or "i want trilema as list of archives not as main page"

mircea_popescu: i dunno, i confess i've not prior considered the v-http server.

asciilifeform: i can give 1 ready example of a plainly palpable win, even for blogs:

mircea_popescu: and it's a wonder if it'd be actually worth it. consider -- what alternative wp-mps would i maintain on trilema ?

asciilifeform: i was giving simplified example for 'how classic http ougta have worked' lol

asciilifeform: is where i was going .

mircea_popescu: "process my data with the press X as identified from your manifest, i don';t trust X'"

a111: Logged on 2017-09-01 19:54 trinque: the hash says what item I want

mircea_popescu: i think ferocranium of many knocks learns some intuitive avoidance.

mircea_popescu: i dun see it in a design perspective ; heck, i actually doin't even see the problem with php. (by the time you're protesting a text preprocessor being used as a systems language your problem is not properly speaking with the tool).

asciilifeform: not the header; nor that posts are editable (i've added errata edits to mine, etc) , but rather the ugliness of the kludge stack

asciilifeform: i.e. you saw url once, and forever you know what it behind it

mircea_popescu: i don't see it. i see "logins" as broadly nonsensical ; but programmable webserver seems fine.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779585 << i suspect the ~only reason this is not in the standard is ~nobody wants to confront just about how little they actually have to say. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 16:40 phf: i suspect local orcs have alternative paths for procurement, was sop in russia in the 90s. you could go to "official dealer" type place and pay 10x, or you would haggle for price at Gorbushka, bazar style

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 16:41 asciilifeform: phf: i strongly suspect that nobody but gringo rubes ever order from these Official catalogues, or pay ANY vat, EVER

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779569 << i paid about 6-8% of the vat i conceivably owed in argentina ; mostly in the shape of "who the fuck's gonna bother with the 80 cent surcharge on this pair of ho's stockings" ☝︎

asciilifeform: tho i have nfi , possibly modern ru also has something of the kind

mircea_popescu: i dun recall what it was, like $200

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i already found that i had a 1U intel 'xeon' box, also usable , from years ago...

a111: Logged on 2018-01-31 13:56 mp_en_viaje: in other "thanks goodness computer means programmable machine", i have here this hp elitebook. it has the backlight permanently welded to "retina cancer". the "function" key bs works for everything else EXCEPT setting the brightness, fn-f9 does 0.

mircea_popescu: i bought the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-31#1778739 item there, for instance. ☝︎

phf: mircea_popescu: i thikn that's what we're going to do, but i need to confirm my schedule. i'm still at the office, so i'll confirm in the morning

asciilifeform: srsly, picture this, 'i'ma let randos DELETE whatever file'

mircea_popescu: i dun think we need any delete.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'ma uncrate things, take pics, expect a roundup sunday night. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform certainly. kinda why i want this as a collective effort.

asciilifeform: ( i wouldn't plug it in even 1nce, 'to try', without ripping out the flash and bsdizing )

phf: asciilifeform: well, it also doesn't have cgi/fastcgi so post would be somewhat pointless. i'm actually not sure what the strategy for post would be when there's no programmatic way to control it

mircea_popescu: But $495 for a $300 in the US ubiquity Edgerouter Pro isn't too bad <<< i.... beg your pardon ?!

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was re one of BingoBoingo's catalogues, it literally had a gadget i had on my desk , once obtained for 20bux, listed for 170

asciilifeform: tho i actually upload pics via ssh

mircea_popescu: i rather doubt this.

asciilifeform: i dun think i've ever used PUT... hey trinque ? phf ? ever used ?

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 22:30 asciilifeform: fwiw i'm still quite convinced that errything other than GET and PUT is ~= prb orphanage.

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1780191 << fyi darkhttpd is missing POST (i grabbed it to see if i could trivially extend their verb dictionary, which i can) ☝︎

mod6: Sorry, got pulled off for a momemnt, just reading this thing. I dunno if they need laws for that kinda thing, just kinda not what is supposed to happen though.

asciilifeform: see, i want an os-less thing.

asciilifeform: aha, i think mircea_popescu gets it

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ah, we're actually saying the exact same thing, i misunderstood what manifest you had in mind.

mircea_popescu: i don't care to hear "item was put here on incatime so and so" ; just let me know what its hash is.

a111: Logged on 2018-02-02 16:10 trinque: "do I already have the item at $path" and "how big is the item at $path" are interesting questions without the server beginning to transmit the item itself.

asciilifeform: if i want to know which of 10,000,000 files on a remote site changed, there is no fucking reason why i should have to download a list of 10,000,000 hashes, rather than binarysearch.

asciilifeform: i dun see the relation at all.

asciilifeform: i suspect that ocelot who knows to head other way when bipedal monsters appear, lives longer

mircea_popescu: i prefer to encounter the bipedal kind instead. more fun, and good for all around.

mircea_popescu: supposedly. tho i'd personally not really want to.

asciilifeform: i wonder if even jaguar can still be met with in cr

mircea_popescu: http://www.ticotimes.net/tags/costa-rica-hunting-ban i mean!

mircea_popescu: mod6 http://www.ticotimes.net/tag/costa-rica-hunting-ban << i'd say that just about describes it.

asciilifeform: i'd luvv to finally eat an iguana, also

asciilifeform: am i the only one who looks at mircea_popescu's priceless rare birds and thinks 'hm'

mircea_popescu: wisconsin-ish i'd say.

mod6: i gotta get some of that.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah and not like it's expensive. a case of "i'm buying the 25 cent a gallon item because i never heard of the 35 cent a galon"

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the american teflon lubricant is pretty great ( i use it in various... gear )

mod6: one day it was -8 Deg. F. and we were out there, i had two times where cycle was slow. but cleaned shotgun after, never had same problem after that.

mod6: i think most of these guys use that remoil stuff. i'll have to check into that.

mod6: i did see a lot of guys have failure to cycle/extract with their semi-auto .12gas during the hunting season.

mod6: i hate having to unjam a double feed on a hot rifle. anyone ever done that before?

asciilifeform: ok i think i know what mircea_popescu meant.

asciilifeform: i dun think this is noose to anybody here. q is specifically re 'good timing, or jam'

asciilifeform: i betcha mircea_popescu did some pretty killer b&w photography back in the day

gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: unfortunately not. Am here because I finally have a nice setup where I won't get kicked regularly. While I have been reading some FFA and DC I do not have anything running at the moment

mircea_popescu: maybe i should offer my services as phd-assemblyline meat-head emmulator!

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-02#1779473 << you know i'm mildly famous in meataspace for always timing my ping lists ~3-4 ms of the whole second ? so it's perpetually "time 8002ms" or w/e. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: let's just say i had an airport cappuccino recreationally in bogota airport.

mod6: i did like the coffee in .ar. but im used to the engine-degreasing shit.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i think i had genuine coffee this one time...

mircea_popescu: i am willing to sign and attest that all you noobs have no fucking idea what coffee even is.

asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: nao i'm also curious, what is gained from cup of coffee after one has already taken meth

asciilifeform: oh hm nao i seem to recall a loud and pompous ban on it in usa.