tmsr - Search: a

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mircea_popescu: it's a subtle point this, i dun have useful expression yet. in time.

asciilifeform: finality is just a cell with no outflow, lol

asciilifeform: the lack of an fpga where i could go straight to demonstrating this experimentally, is a pretty substantial headache for asciilifeform

mircea_popescu: there's one thing it can't express too well (well here means -- in such a way as to guaranteedly and inescapably inconvenience EVERYONE) and that is, a certain notion of finality.

mircea_popescu: but yes, "ffa mostly exists to show you that no, you actually DO NOT have a leg there".

a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 14:30 caaddr: compared to compilation as a *software transformation device*, which I consider a different case: that is for automating levers, not running your program off of a cliff faster than before

a111: Logged on 2017-11-29 01:38 asciilifeform yet again, for 3rd time in 2 yrs, attempted and failed to build a 'zero foot print runtime' for gnat -- to abolish the 3MB of liquishit it shits into every executable.

mircea_popescu: a yes. if well curated that's doable.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1773988 << aaaaahahaha, yeah, i totally wanna see this for a gnat. ☝︎

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1773977 << this incidentally is a very cogent objection. ☝︎

asciilifeform: ( concerned a particularly insidious bit of schoolbook braindamage , re how bits in registers are drawn on paper )

mircea_popescu: it's a security thing.

mircea_popescu: item's been looking for someone to pick up the "no, really mp, anonimity is actually a net positive" torch for a long time now. be my guest.

caaddr: various computing sector tasks. like all modern men, I can skin a rabbit, smelt my own copper, build my own hut. computational equivalents, of course. strangely these turn out to be valuable traits, though easily gotten

BingoBoingo: Sausage? Does alf have a meat engineer friend?

caaddr: no m&a, nothing deep

mircea_popescu: also lulzy, but a topic for another time.)

mircea_popescu: (for the noobs : arbitrage as a financial "fashionable" item, the sorta thing tom cruise might be doing to explain why he has all that money and time to pursue "slavegirls" came to light during the 70s mergers and acquisitions craze (aka, m&a), where the success/failure of an attempt to takeover induces significant yet economically meaningless price movements. the whys and wherefores of both the behaviour and its effects are

mircea_popescu: arbitrage, what ? m&a ?

mircea_popescu: you're sitting there and telling me you're a suit with a working comprehension of the underlying technology ? what the fuck is this, the future ?

mircea_popescu: caaddr what do you do for a living ?

caaddr: trinque: so the only use we have is actually a *negative* use

mircea_popescu: it's a bitch.

a111: Logged on 2018-01-21 22:34 phf: mircea_popescu: it's not clear to me what "properly handle" is, given the many conversations on the subj. there's no reason why it couldn't if there was some direction as far as proper. i'm personally leaning towards the idea that binary blobs shouldn't be in vpatch (as per latest thread on subj), but it's a non-pragmatic take

mircea_popescu: do you build ON his thing, and then run into http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-21#1773628 ? or do you NOT build on his thing, cutting out a younfg and promising fellow into another polarbeard ? ☝︎

asciilifeform: there will be a tmsr gnat; and will be based on a cleaned-up adacore gnat.

trinque: caaddr: to date the only use I've seen is people put an expiration date on a key, then whine to me about swapping it out

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes but life served you lemons. you gotta make what is a very unpleasant cut as a political decision.

a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 14:19 asciilifeform: and also i think at this point i will declare gpl-gnat to be a work of wreckers. it has zero upsides over adacore's, and a million breakages , large and small.

caaddr: because that's what they saw in a LEET PGP guide that somebody wrote in 2003. it's gotta be safe, it's a guide! on the web! copy and paste, try not to think too hard about what's formatting what

caaddr: primes, who could need those? what the user really needs are a hundred poorly named command line flags to manipulate a keychain state that they normally control using easily spoofed truncated fingerprints

caaddr: indeed. this inversion of "fundamental principles" with "implementation details best left hidden from the 'casual' user" is all of a pattern

mircea_popescu: this may seem weird considering we've had numbers for a long time. but i am pretty certain that's what the problem is.

mircea_popescu: one is, of course, the attempted building of a http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-03#1719979 ☝︎

caaddr: as far as I can tell, you can either rewrite their shitware from scratch and surgically remove the primes yourself, or you can import it into the less damaged gpg1 to achieve much the same in a less irritating way

caaddr: something from the same book: gpg2 does not allow export of the two RSA primes, p and q, from a password protected key. it does not think that you *own your own primes*. the primes upon which your reputation rests

mircea_popescu: one day eric raymond came to mp and said "given enough eyes, all bugs are shallow" ; mp extended him the can of beluga roe he was dipping into : "here you go, a whole <<<new software movement>>>". eric raymond never understood what just happened.

mircea_popescu: caaddr this is amply discussed, generally under the "not as much as a fucking working cipher omfg"

caaddr: which revealed a general "caveman with microscope" level attitude towards that technology. it occurs to me that the fact nothing like phuctor existed before shows the same caveman approach to all of cryptography, not just blockchains

caaddr: asciilifeform, remember you said something a while ago about there being a lack of basic tools for interrogating information contained within the blockchain?

asciilifeform: caaddr: it's on a 1u machine on my desk, as we speak. which in turn is waiting for a host berth.

mircea_popescu: i don't expect anyone gives a shiot abput the gimmick.

BingoBoingo: <caaddr> what if there had been a multipart guide to building your own phuctor from scratch, *without* revealing the end purpose of the software until the end? would that have attracted more or less commentary? << No one wants to read more random python

asciilifeform: speaking of which, asciilifeform just uncrated a 'omnibook 800' , prolly the spiffiest dos portable ever made

caaddr: what if there had been a multipart guide to building your own phuctor from scratch, *without* revealing the end purpose of the software until the end? would that have attracted more or less commentary?

mircea_popescu: people WANT to be asked for parts of their own fucking body cut off with a half bent spork.

mircea_popescu: going up to a woman and asking her if she'd like to be put in chains and whipped is going to produce significantly better results than going up to a woman and proposing you take her out for a yacht cruise.

mircea_popescu: i have a theory, and it goes like this :

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1773933 << you know alf, it occurs to me ffa actually attracted a lot more intelligent commentary than phuctor's results. fucking_unexpected.gif. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 13:23 diana_coman: I really can't begin to understand what exactly is that; some gems in there too with organisation making silk-purse out of a sow's ear and "every participant has the option to be that player" and ...

trinque: I will be willing to import a key with the same parameters, but marked as E

asciilifeform: it's a fucking rsa modulus

trinque: caaddr: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/t3aUb/?raw=true << deedbot was only given a signing key, it appears, not an encrypting key.

a111: Logged on 2018-01-19 01:57 mircea_popescu: it's little more than a restatement of ye olde, dearest dream of all nigger, "we'll get in later anyway:"

ave1: yes, I would not support older or gcc gnats, a user can mutilate on his own ☟︎

asciilifeform: and yes i'ma keep having'em, and no i'm not ever going to sign and distribute a mutilated and restriction-weakened version just for old gnats.

a111: Logged on 2016-06-14 14:25 asciilifeform: did we ever do a 'postel's law not only considered harmful but a disaster of epic proportions, quite comparable to leaded petrol' thread ?

asciilifeform: gnat has a deliberately brittle behaviour re the restriction pragmas -- if you use one it doesn't know about, it barfs. ( and i'm not even convinced that this is wrong. half of the appeal of ada is that it takes 'postel's law', rips off its head, and fucks the stump ) ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2018-01-22 16:04 ave1: re: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1773970, it seems that gcc simply lags behind and a releases version will never be updated / fixed to newer adacore releases. AdaCore 2014 also cannot build FFA from the box

mod6: asciilifeform: noted. i'll update it once i get a chance to test whatever this is ^

ave1: re: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1773970, it seems that gcc simply lags behind and a releases version will never be updated / fixed to newer adacore releases. AdaCore 2014 also cannot build FFA from the box ☝︎☟︎

mod6: it was a royal pita to get it to work... hopefully what I've posted here will work for you, others.

mod6: hanbot: here's what I have currently running on an Ubuntu 14.04 box. I believe this to be all that is required, you can change the values as required, but I think one catch that I found is that root's ulimit needed to be set just a bit higher than the non-root user.

asciilifeform: the microcomputer was a massive step back, not merely technically ( that'd be fixable ) but sociopolitically. ☟︎

caaddr: and a few other lisp-aware structures

asciilifeform: i dun give much of a fuck what 'reddit we' do or do not.

phf: shit, try cold booting a genera system, rebuilding the FEP, etc. you'll discover that those are non-trivial tasks requiring expert knowledge. that knowledge can be gained from what we have though, but it'll take you weeks or months to get there

asciilifeform: caaddr: it was ordinary genera, but came with a dec alpha emulator for the machine

phf: all these things are reddit available "oh i saw link and played with it". try ~actually~ ~rebuilding~ a genera system from source code

caaddr: I thought I torrented a full system once upon a time

phf: caaddr: my personal issue with resurrecting all these lisp machine architectures is that Genera really is the only interesting platform to build upon, and there's not enough source/details available ~at all~ to actually rebuild a genera system from first principles.

asciilifeform: caaddr: if it's gone from the net, i'll stand up a mirror ( as soon as i have where to; currently between isps )

asciilifeform: it does not add up to a working machine.

caaddr: "After a period of time, when no investors were found, the material assets of Gigamos, including the K-machine board sets, specifications, schematics, and printed circuit artwork were sold for salvage to Eli Hefron and Sons in Cambridge, MA. I purchased these materials from Eli Hefron and Sons and they are currently in my possession."

phf: of SYSTEM has a bunch of #+lmi conditionals long after genera went closed source

asciilifeform: caaddr: afaik lmi never actually fabbed a chip at all

phf: but note symbolics were still running a CADR internally

asciilifeform: there's a reason why no sane ic layout, photoprocessing, etc tools exist today, and whole stack is a TB+ of winblowz liquishit for which foundries get charged $mils

phf: oh sure in a sense that daedalus was part of the IP packet

caaddr: perhaps one day we'll be able to hang up a poster of the transistors that caused the FDIV bug

caaddr: that chip was about the same era. it's certainly doable, but a chore unless you have significant passion for the subject

caaddr: I enjoyed the long series of posts where a gentleman reverse engineered the 6502 die photograph, drawing the schematic from the photo

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-22#1773848 << i've shared a version of vdiff in logs that fixed that issue, because the issue is of course there. i believe the comment was "not oneliner!!1" ☝︎

caaddr: "WARNING: MAY STILL CONTAIN DANGEROUS LEVELS OF SANITY". yes, just a joke. it would be nice to handle them as an exercise in hardware archaeology ☟︎

caaddr: probably locked in a drawer somewhere, lest the world learn from them

asciilifeform: scheme79 was a prototype, did not even have an alu!

caaddr: so you'd need a carry flag, unlike RISC-V, at least? :)

asciilifeform: caaddr: re earlier, i'll say this : if a sane os and sane compiler cannot be ~small~ on a given iron, the iron design is ipso facto defective.

caaddr: compared to compilation as a *software transformation device*, which I consider a different case: that is for automating levers, not running your program off of a cliff faster than before ☟︎

caaddr: I wonder how early in such a stack you would add the kind of compile time protections that ada guarantees. compile time protections seem to be the hardest thing to keep a programming language at "fits in head" size

caaddr: surely not. you just need "a steady hand and a magnetized needle" ;)

caaddr: it would be nice to bootstrap an entire operating system from machine code to forth to some strange mix of forth and ada, ada, then tinyscheme, and finally a sane common lisp subset

asciilifeform: if anyone has a counter-argument, now is the time. otherwise ch9 will contain a 'don't use gcc-gnat' preface.

asciilifeform: and also i think at this point i will declare gpl-gnat to be a work of wreckers. it has zero upsides over adacore's, and a million breakages , large and small. ☟︎☟︎

diana_coman: caaddr, register a key please so we know it's you next time

caaddr: yes, I created a vpatch. I'm happy to add my key to deedbot too

diana_coman: anyways caaddr do you have a blog?

diana_coman: I suppose asciilifeform will want to have a look at them perhaps ; I'm not sure though I see a point in changing ffa to fit whatever gnat4 wants though

diana_coman: wait, you created a vpatch for ..ffa?