log☇︎
39400+ entries in 0.023s
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 500 m. for the typical
asciilifeform: ( seems extravagant, until you remember that you can't submerge on diesels )
mircea_popescu: whole thing goes three miles underwater.
mircea_popescu: the thing with subs is that failure means failure, there's no "oh, no brakes, stopped car in ditch".
asciilifeform: was thought, if you have 160 hands on the ship, may as well also battery
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, sov nuke vessels still had'em. backup to diesels which in turn backup to the 2 reactors
asciilifeform pictures castle mircea_popescustein with uboat-style battery room, what with the little cart that one rides lying on back to test electrolyte etc
mircea_popescu: got knows wouldn't be first time.
mircea_popescu: i don't think it's dead though, answers to eg !!key. mayhap something i'm fucking up syntax-wise.
mircea_popescu: then again who wants to fuck hamsters.
asciilifeform: i.e. what actual hamster could turn out in his wheel..
asciilifeform: this is 1 of the wins of rk, thing can live on 3W
asciilifeform dun like to have moar microwave background than strictly must
asciilifeform: i have the latter, but it's kept in cold reserve, rather than auto
asciilifeform does not have diesel, thought about it but ~0 point, given that upstream fiber people seem to only have ~2hr of battery, so went 'i'ma also 2h..'
mircea_popescu: trinque, as it happens i was gonna do a buncha small payments, but deedb ot not answering to !!withdraw ?
asciilifeform: trinque: i thought you had diesel
mircea_popescu: but gigantgic hamster wheel in dank cellar quite the pic.
asciilifeform: so conceivably you dun need a gigantic hamster wheel, could rewire ordinary bike thing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enuff, even cheapo current gen. of gym stationary bikes, actually include gens, they simply dump the current in resistor
mircea_popescu: im totally gonna look into this. what's the big deal, a generator and some welding.
asciilifeform: wainot, if they already turn wheels at gym..
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: generating cage ? i.e. with hupet in large wheel turning gen ?
mircea_popescu: wouldn't that be hot af ?
trinque: hey folks, just a heads-up that castle trinque is running on batteries atm due to a blown transformer. wallet will be around while batteries last, after which we'll be awaiting the mains.
asciilifeform: ( for 'honest' prime gen, where there's actually 2 primes of the traditional bitness, this ~never happens. but for others.. )
asciilifeform: incidentally, and for thread-completeness, gotta add, for certain patterns of failed m-r sequence , you end up with output that gets you a factor. this item is actually on the phuctor conveyor, when i get a free hand to crank it again
asciilifeform: it's what i distinctly recall from that piece, will revisit when i dredge up a copy
mircea_popescu: but i don't have all that great a "whu"
mircea_popescu: anyway, i guess what i'm tryingto say is that if i were looking to dig among the liar set i'd be mostly trying to guide it by the charmicael set.
asciilifeform: recall, carmichael # is where x^(n-1) = 1 mod n for all x that are relatively prime to n
mircea_popescu: yeah ; more properly : there is a class of numbers that are both carmichael numbers and strong liars.
mircea_popescu: small sets of small liars are trivially produced, eg 1 , 8 , 18 , 47 , 57 , 64 are liars for 5 * 13.
mircea_popescu: in any case, to get back to the previous line : afaik all m-r liars are also carmichael numbers.
mircea_popescu: right. and it dun tell you ~to any degree~.
asciilifeform: correct, it dun tell you where they are.
mircea_popescu: yes of numberline. definitely. but not of "x to y" interval for close x, y.
mircea_popescu: moreover, it's likely that a set of 100% consecutive liars of arbitrary length can be found.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, the problem with that 3/4 figure is that it's ~an average~ (obtained by a very trivial calculation). there's no known way to evaluate the statistical divergence over a finite set.
asciilifeform: ahahaha the 'ohnoez , homebrew crypto' people
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall, the derpcrypto folx use not only small, but ~fixed~ witnesses, lol
a111: Logged on 2019-01-02 18:57 mircea_popescu: what's hilarious is the ever-present http://trilema.com/2017/global-warming-on-triton/#selection-154.0-157.103 whereby they'll imaginarily seat themselves in my seat and start spewing http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1809349 slash assorted nonsense about "homebrew crypto" lalala.
mircea_popescu: (and also why the usual crowd of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-02#1883944 systematically push them) ☝︎
mircea_popescu: another piece of the puzzle is that while small numbers are ~perfect~ witnesses for up to a certain value, they become terrible witnesses thereupon, which is why small witnesses are useless in crypto
asciilifeform: will be lulzy if we end up finding that koch's 'whitener' actually optimizes for sad N
mircea_popescu: i thought that's what we were looking at.
mircea_popescu: all of this is only interesting if enemy can set your witnesses, correct.
asciilifeform: all of this , as i understand, only is interesting if enemy knows (or can set) which will be your witnesses. cuz by basic m-r , 3/4 of possible inputs for witness will still give correct diagnosis of compositude
mircea_popescu: but even taking a small selection among these to produce a sieve, and then churning a bunch of composites through it, might produce some lulz.
a111: Logged on 2019-03-27 23:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, there's eg ~20mn carmichael numbers under 10^20
mircea_popescu: the http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-27#1905222 item is relevant, because if you were to enumerate the pairs you'd be looking at 20mn!/2!(20mn-2)!, which is truly a staggering nuymber, of possible liars of a size up to 10^40 ☝︎
asciilifeform: iirc it is how the linked item worked
mircea_popescu: ie, you don';t have to try "all", but do try all mutual products of all known carmichael numbers.
mircea_popescu: in more practical terms : about 1/4 of products of strong liars are also strong liars, which is another constructive direction.
asciilifeform: ( even moar interesting, would be to find litmus for some variant of this being in use, then could point it at phuctor collection & pull trigger )
asciilifeform: what'd be interesting is to find algo that bakes a large composite n , and shits forth arbitrary # of 'plausible-looking' large but false witnesses
asciilifeform: iirc i saw this item at some pt, and fella really did bake a p that 'passes m-r' for buncha ~small~ bases
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dun suppose you have the text lying around?
mircea_popescu: dood actually lists a 400 digit number to which ~300 items are strong liars
asciilifeform: neato ( tho could've sworn nao that we had it in log... )
asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu , plox to post if/when find
mircea_popescu: finding the nontrivial square roots of 1 modulo n is a hard problem ; but constructing some is not. anyway, not right now in the best form to go through archives but will see to this.
asciilifeform: somehow enemy gotta feed you errything other than those 3/4..
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the operative diff is, 3/4 is lower bound. i.e. there aint a composite where 3/4 of the integers aint proper witness.
asciilifeform: then can say 'enemy who fed you a magic p, and then 32 selected witnesses, can lead you off cliff'
asciilifeform: esp. if it runs in human time
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that'd entirely fit the bill, if you find it
mircea_popescu: the principal problem with it was that they ended up large.
asciilifeform: cuz this one is 'geological'
mircea_popescu: ima have to dig this up, pretty sure i read up on this (very limited) mewthod of constructing m-r false witnesses for a two-primes product.
asciilifeform: q is whether there is a better algo
asciilifeform: i.e. throw p*q in m-r , with random witness, and see if correctly outputs 'composite'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: takes same time as to find m-r false witness for anyffing else
asciilifeform: ( troof-teller i.e. correctly triggers m-r's 'this is composite' litmus )
mircea_popescu: the problem's converse : construct k integers that are false witnesses for the primality of the pq product.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/gambit/ << Trilema -- Gambit
asciilifeform: in m-r, for prime p, 3/4 of the integers are troof-tellers for p
mircea_popescu: yes ; but by analogy i expect it's possible you have some m-r liars up to the large (4096 bit is a large number) numbers we're dealing wqith
asciilifeform: ( it's fermat that chokes on'em )
asciilifeform: carmichaels dun have much to do with m-r
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, there's eg ~20mn carmichael numbers under 10^20 ☟︎
asciilifeform: i recall digging for this, and instead finding conjecture that no canhaz
mircea_popescu: afaik there was constructive approach
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interestingly, iirc even to bake 32 liars (having control of the witnesses, presupposes) that 1) all diff 2) work for some n -- is open problem atm
asciilifeform: ( high in comparison with the naked 4**-x that is )
mircea_popescu: provided, of course, the witnesses aren't correlated.
asciilifeform: i.e. if you run somehow 1 per sec, will eat a coupla dozen moon-size asteroids prior to getting misfire..
asciilifeform: ( for n00bz -- prime gen parallelizes, obv., over as many cpu as you have. but ffa per se does not use threads, tho it can be run inside threads with no added headache )
BingoBoingo: In still other news, US sheep herd hits an all time low.
asciilifeform: in other noose, 100 shots of that 2048bit-prime baker : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/DjaVe/?raw=true ; min=13, max=299, avg=61, median=47 (seconds) .
BingoBoingo: Seriousky, all that's left is shit and graft fulfilled with more shit
mircea_popescu: whole tower of shit's derealizing at a shocking rate.
BingoBoingo: ^ From Spreadsheets in Space to Field Exercises in Spreadsheets!
Mocky: billymg: if your tinymce patch is ready this weekend I'll test it with my setup. ☟︎
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/lavaro/ << Trilema -- L'avaro
asciilifeform: ( troo from ch14b and up )
asciilifeform: fwiw 'speed of ffa' for applications involving modexp ( rsa keygen & enc/dec ) hinges ~entirely on speed of the multiplier unit in $iron .
asciilifeform: i expect that as moar folx eat ffa, we will have moar empirical figs to compare.
asciilifeform: ftr rk is effectively 2x, as measured, slower than this gauge box , on ffa.
asciilifeform deliberately uses oldest opteron in the torture room as 'standard ffa gauge' , if wasn't obv.