log☇︎
38600+ entries in 0.349s
a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 13:08 mircea_popescu just checked, o-9 pay grade is from 14.5k to 18k A MONTH. it is literally a better deal to be an entry level sysadmin working in pasadena than a lieutenant-general working in baghdad.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 12:55 mircea_popescu: anyway alf will prolly appreciate : https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/photo_2016-12-22_07-09-311.jpg
a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 12:50 mircea_popescu: in further news nobody cares about, "4 million letters of 'empathy, support' dropped on Mosul". this thing, which was a) going to be a war that b) was going to take two weeks twelve weeks ago (and then a month, and then two, and here we are) has now degenerated in a fucking spam offensive.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: infamously flammable (recalled) pNoje
asciilifeform: well yes. mircea_popescu used to teach, right ? how did he determine which idiot cribbed off which other idiot on exam
asciilifeform: if i had any reason to think that turning v tree into a forest of vertical stakes , exponentially crowded with IDENTICAL payloads that cannot be machine-compared , would make it easier to tell friend from foe and wisdom from folly -- i would agree with mircea_popescu's algo. but i do not. ☟︎
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu signs 'τῶν γὰρ φύσει συνεστώτων τὰ μέν ἐστι ...', he does not also sign his copy of aristotle, and after that, the publisher's original manuscript, and with it, the medieval copy, and with that, the arab copy, and with that, .... plus the book from which he learned greek, and its manuscript...
mircea_popescu: much like currently mod6's latest, the makefiles patch. takes 'mod6_der_high_low_s' , 'malleus_mikehearnificarum', and 'asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected' .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: with your algo, 'a' cannot produce the same thing as 'b', because their immediate antecedents were different.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if (b) is available, it becomes again possible to close cycles.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 19:26 mircea_popescu: there's multiple approaches available. a) each patch nails down the whole list of direct antecedents, so it'd be 3 in this case ; b) each patch signer picks an arbitrary antecedent to reference of the list (of here - 3), others are free to "fork" it by picking a different one or w/e.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if your branches cannot converge (and under your algo, they cannot, because path dependence ~everywhere~) your tree gets cancer, every single patch creates a wholly separate universe that can never touch others.
asciilifeform: obscurantist claptrap is not helping mircea_popescu's argument.
asciilifeform: according to legend, once upon a time, long ago, mircea_popescu lost his house key. so the next day he ordered twenty wagons of glue, and glued everything together -- the gurlz, the keys, his keyboard, his chair, ...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's algo forbids sibling leaves, looks like.
asciilifeform: upstream from it, we have 'mod6_der_high_low_s' , 'malleus_mikehearnificarum', and 'asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected' .
asciilifeform: take, say, 'asciilifeform_lets_lose_testnet'.
asciilifeform: so i hand-cranked the sequence using mircea_popescu's method, to agglomerate, forever, a record of the path through the tree. and he is right that this will keep the toposort from detecting a loop. but this is rather like whitening an rng, it confuses only the machine, but not the reader, who will see that the ~output~ resulting from following the path is identical.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 19:03 mircea_popescu: should be pretty evident that a dimension defined in terms of divisibility is very fundamentally not the same thing as the latin notion of dimension-as-extensibility.
asciilifeform: nobody's diffing the patches, mircea_popescu
asciilifeform: nobody's hashing ~the patches~. mircea_popescu wants to ?
asciilifeform: (which is what i gather mircea_popescu intended to do in his paste)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu takes the patch, writes it in corpses of usg soldiers in the desert, photographers come, it is printed in every paper in the world; now -- ordered.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for so long as you have the flame continuously burn, and at no point 'everyone died', it runs.
asciilifeform: there is no squaring for this circle, mircea_popescu .
asciilifeform: martians make a copy of mircea_popescu ! which mircea_popescu shoots which other !
asciilifeform: what does the string 'Patch for genesis' do in mircea_popescu's paste example ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand, your solution to cycles is to demand that no two patches be equal.
asciilifeform: and at the same time, mircea_popescu also does.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's solution, if i understand it, is to include a gensym in each patch body.
asciilifeform: in mircea_popescu's paste, there is only 1 way.
asciilifeform: you can ban it, as shown above in mircea_popescu's paste, by demanding that no new patch produce the antecedent of an old one.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this destroys the ability to see that we in fact returned to genesis. has it occurred to you to wonder why even to have patches at all? why not everyone just signs the entire hindenburg titanic of trb every time he changes a line ?!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/VZVHu/?raw=true << here is your 'cyclic ring of 3 atoms'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because dr.mengele makes a patch that ~produces~ the genesis, thinking he is oh so clever
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is a cycle topologically, but given as it contains the genesis, the 'ant walker' stops at the genesis, and does not walk in circles.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is not illegal in my vtron because the toposort still provably terminates.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mod6 posted one above.
mod6: asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch:
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu or anybody else wants to try to 'square the circle' and make a v-prime algo that doesn't need ordering, i will helpfully show how it breaks.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the antecedent hash in this example ~is~ the entire context, because the example is so short.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for the two paths to begin to exist, someone has to take a shit in the graph
asciilifeform: this also would give mircea_popescu the thing he asked for, which was a litmus that'd let him reject a cycle-creating patch immediately from his light cone, before it can get into his vtron and cause headache. and that is, 'no patch may have a descendant that is also an antecedent of itself or of an earlier-blocktimed patch.'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: your 'cycle arbitrageur' is precisely the same devil as my cornered-node-creator and panopticonic gossipd observer.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i drew the graph, not seeing what is meant in your example: what means 'now both g->d->e->f->b->a and g->d->c->b->a are valid presses' ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there isn't a 'the patch'
asciilifeform: but -- and i'd rather that mircea_popescu do this in his head -- you can make a 'munchausen' where both steps (or however many, it can be as long as you like) reference the genesis.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a v set consisting solely of genesis is valid
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/munchausen.tar.gz
asciilifeform: and it is trivial to make, if mircea_popescu really wants, i can post an example set , with a toy key, and he can hang his vtron.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 12:24 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's take the simplest cycle : a->b and b->a ; to do this, a must contain the hash of b ; and b must contain the hash of a. how do you propose to accomplish this ?
mircea_popescu: anyway alf will prolly appreciate : https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/photo_2016-12-22_07-09-311.jpg ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 05:33 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589025 << it's not even clear to me this is actually possible to do. the closing element has to actually break a hash.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 02:19 mircea_popescu: mod6 i read through http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace.txt and indeed it seems right and proper vtronics. one q though : was there any patch not signed by asciilifeform interspersed in the flow ? because that's the only not tested case i think, if you have say a->b->c->d where a, c and d are signed by x. does it stop at a ?
mod6: if it were correct, in my mind, i suppose, the flow would be dropping zap_hardcoded_seeds and zap_showmyip_crud.
mod6: that's the same as saying : mod6@gentoo ~/sandbox-v $ ./v.pl a asciilifeform_zap_hardcoded_seeds.vpatch
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: look here: asciilifeform_zap_hardcoded_seeds.vpatch should have been orphaned in your flow << i think it actually is, quite: when I have the sig for dnsseed moved to duck-fuck-soup, and i check the ante and desc for zap_hardcoded:http://dpaste.com/2QCN3Y4.txt
mod6: mine has another arrow going to dns_thermonyukyoolar_kleansing
mod6: yes, flow is wrong because 'asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch' is missing.
asciilifeform: when you zapped the sig for asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch
asciilifeform: mod6: look here: asciilifeform_zap_hardcoded_seeds.vpatch should have been orphaned in your flow
mod6: because, mind you, it is ~still~ trying to press asciilifeform_zap_hardcoded_seeds.vpatch, and whatever it shits out from this, if it does not match the expected output hash, will then die yes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: priests can stay fat for so long as there is fat to harvest. for so long as ~other~ people economize.
mod6: mircea_popescu & asciilifeform : http://www.mod6.net/v-99994-trace3.txt
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is quite like saying catholic church has nfi who to hire.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 why's the hash mismatching ? << upon checking the output hash from the pressing of asciilifeform_zap_hardcoded_seeds.vpatch, it failed. because this patch depends on asciilifeform_dnsseed_snipsnip.vpatch which was not in the flow, because it was renamed 'duck-fuck-soup.vpatch'.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'curious re bitcoin' since shortly before 2010, but no good notes; but for some reason did not occur to me to visit irc folx until 2012
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 remember that time someone put a mega sdice order in and flooded the book ? << Oh yeah, Sir. I'm still doing a O_O from that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wrote the article on oct 11 2012. so this makes sense
asciilifeform: Oct 11 15:48:50 <mircea_popescu> There's no drama like Bitcoin drama. The "will pirate make contact" storyline returns tomorrow and the new season of "will BFL deliver" starts in a couple of weeks. It's like reality TV without the ads. Which well-known Bitcoin business will suddenly fail next? Who should be voted off the libertarian island?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in what year was 'Oct 06 11:33:00 <PeterLambert> I guess there is no need for glbse trading funds without a glbse' on your machine ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: #b-a
a111: Logged on 2016-04-02 19:14 mircea_popescu: in other news, http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/tmsr-logs-apr2012-oct2013.txt.tar.gz
phf: mircea_popescu: log that you gave me, goes apr 15, may 22, aug 10th
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: feb.2 of 2013 was when asciilifeform first ~spoke~ there
a111: Logged on 2013-02-02 19:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: working on it
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> i have jun 2011 - apr 2012 otc logs also, but by now really scraping the bottom. << these would be cool tho
a111: Logged on 2013-02-02 19:50 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: working on it
a111: Logged on 2013-02-02 19:41 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1009 re-doing that would be a worthy exercise
phf: http://btcbase.org/log-first-post?nick=mircea_popescu (that feature was requested by trinque)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the thing is a flame, and it was not obvious to me either on 1st pass.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes do you mean you iterate through all the seals ? :D
mod6: mircea_popescu: this is a solid point for testing, let me give this a test and see how it goes. will report.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes this incidentally is a very cogent point you bring, "Multiple implementations of an ambiguous specification provide far more value than the "many eyes" mantra of open source advocates. An implementation in Python might burn the eyes of a Perl hacker, and the Perl be entirely inscrutable to a man who's never touched it before, and even were such a man to sit down and learn Python for the purpose of auditing another'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can easily simulate this by deleting a seal
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: randos throw in pgp keys still, half dozen or so in a month typically
shinohai: ben_vulpes: I came in 2015
Framedragger thanks ben_vulpes for the CL implementation
asciilifeform: just as ben_vulpes has 0 particular reason to care how asciilifeform laid out his keyboard, or that it weighs 6kg
asciilifeform downloaded it earlier today when ben_vulpes first posted, but not yet tested.
asciilifeform: ^ this is seriously neato , ben_vulpes
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: crazily enough, pingbacks work when issued from my own wp instance
mod6: ben_vulpes: haha
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: please to s/being/behind in pencil piece as per ben_vulpes' appreciated astutery.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes which of the trb genesis seals are seal and which reseal ?
ben_vulpes: whence 're', though. that other key was 'derpderp ben_vulpes', not 'foundation chair ben_vulpes'
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes how would you call it ? reseal ?
a111: Logged on 2016-12-22 18:49 mircea_popescu: you ~can~ after all rebase a patch ; not just because of the patch, but also because of the sig.
asciilifeform: yes but let's suppose that mircea_popescu mistyped, deliberately or otherwise, a character(s) in the string, and wrote 'kye x is ym key'
asciilifeform: gedankenexperiment. say i have a billion signed texts, from all over the galaxy, and also a number of keys, can i mechanically query 'documents signed by all of mircea_popescu's known subserviant keys' ? is the notion that anyone trying to do this is by definition up to no good ?