log☇︎
38500+ entries in 0.023s
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906624 << because cemented in "standard practices" because it has to be because for political reasons had to pretend it was at some point because etcetera. ~same reason basketball players wear wifebeater-cut tops and soccer players wear t-shirt tops. could very well be backwards, but isn't because etcetera. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 15:05 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906605 << i entirely agree that reading human text in typewriter chars is painful. gotta point out tho , that 'truetype' monstrosity is not justified thereby, it is possible to have horizontally-variable bitmap font (simply store the # of horiz. pixels as matrix , for 'kerning' space , and otherwise same )
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906632 << i have no confidence in tghe truetype/whatevr "standards", a lot of actual experience with both empire and alt-empire standards guts has cured me for three lifetimes. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: anyway, server girly was very interested from the margins of the going ons on the harem table.
diana_coman: being weirdos they are foreigners therefore hotel therefore -> lounge. :D
mp_en_viaje: i'm not saying they all have to participate or any insane shit like that. but if they can have 500 hypovereisbank offices, they could have ONE coffee house. for those incomprehensible weirdos who go there, what of it.
mp_en_viaje: it's just fucking weird, to not do it AT ALL. i mean cosmopolitan literally means, "which includes alt-stream competence"
mp_en_viaje: but yes that was the explanatory theory we came up with, since they socialize over beer it then therefore follows they don't socialize over coffee and that's an end to it. could for the same money complain there's no teahouse with proper samovar in zanzibar.
mp_en_viaje: i'm not bemoaning my fate or anything, jus' sayin; for the records.
diana_coman: tbf cafes for me -> Austria rather than Germany (which esp Bavaria -> biergarten -and that comes with annoying sitting, yes- what cafe)
mp_en_viaje: which yes, being furnished from the hotel-magazine, as opposed to the apparent coffeehouse-verboenbuche, contains sane human seating.
mp_en_viaje: ended up going to hang out in my hotel lounge, in part precipitated by cabdriver declaring nec plus ultram in coffeehouse luxury the... lounge of another, cheaper hotel.
mp_en_viaje: but in a coffeehouse it's apparently reglement verboten to have a chair with a back higher than your hips, or padded.
mp_en_viaje: i have nfi how this works, i NEVER saw a car here with wooden bench inside and fuck you. they understand what chairs are, every bank, every god damned nothing-in-particular shop has proper chairs in there. they have furniture shops selling actual chairs.
diana_coman: uhm, wtf did they do with what they had ...more than 10 years ago though
mp_en_viaje: fucktards here, their coffee houses, in the rare instances they have seating, have fucking wood benches and stools and shit.
mp_en_viaje: got motorized, drove >100 mi to find one, going by list of historic big deal whatever in special printed, inch thick bookler.
mp_en_viaje: i marched the girls for ~4 hours through historic downtown, tryina find one. found none.
mp_en_viaje: oh, right, i tell you what! THERE IS NO SUCH THING!
diana_coman: I suspect they ...don't have money to meet there ?
mp_en_viaje: but anyway, what the fuck is wrong with picking the prestige coffee house of the town for your bitcoin meet ?
diana_coman now admits she has purposefully kept away from Munchen for quite a few years now in order to not spoil earlier pleasant recollections of it...
mp_en_viaje: the food was ok, but the service kinda meh. i dunno, they have a problem here it seems with not hirin genough waiters.
asciilifeform: diana_coman, spyked : at this pt , 5 yrs in, i'm satisfied that i understand how ~trb~ pushes tx; problem lies in the zoo of ??? 'nodes', what do ~they~ do with it.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, went then to boozy brunch at lowenbrau keller (big deal landmark here).
mp_en_viaje: if i set out to find "mom's garage, seattle" i'd be in ~same position.
mp_en_viaje: and people working at #10 theresinhohe had NEVER HEARD of the public house supposedly located at #15.
mp_en_viaje: somewhere on an off road from THIS place, they had thei meeting spot.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: in 'red' usa (virginia & south-er) they have these, it's where the people with carpets fulla 2ndhand guns set up coupla-x/yr
mp_en_viaje: ie, the circular connector to frankfurt is frankfurtring, and so this being also a ring but not really connecting to a town... they gave it god's name as it were.
mp_en_viaje: in real civilised places, that community acre is more like a few sqmiles, and they are surrounded by road. in munchen, road is called bavariaring.
mp_en_viaje: in this particular case, they picked a place on fucking bavariaring. how shall i explain what this is... basically every real town has a spot of land kept fallow on purpose to do things like i dunno, let a passin circus pitch tents there, right ? or whatever other large but dirty activity like that, yes.
diana_coman: that being said, I actually had a nice time at various biergartens fwiw - obv, with people "brought from home" as it were so I don't know it had much to do with the *garten itself
asciilifeform pictures mp_en_viaje posting from the pub pictured in '17 moments of spring', complete with the oddball jukebox
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, very fucking to be expected indeed. the problem is still, almost a decade later, that bitcoin "enthusiasm" is pretty much code for "we'll shock you with how inept we are".
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 08:43 spyked: upstack, re. tx propagation voodoo: the good part about this is that it got me into reading trb code and logs re bitcoin and trb. will be back to feedbotworks, but I'll say, this has been instructive
diana_coman: ahahha mp_en_viaje that was rather to be expected given the ersten und originalen und-only-talkin' www
mp_en_viaje: hai thar!
asciilifeform: diana_coman: must admit, currently i have massive hole of mystery where 'how and where does trb tx propagage' oughta be. is why last autumn i sat down & wrote (most of) a fairly gnarly proggy to try & map out node zoology & mempool dynamics. but sadly on hold presently, not enuff hands
diana_coman: asciilifeform: from what I understood though, spyked said he could not see his transaction relayed even
asciilifeform: i'd be quite curious to hear what trinque says about all of this; i expect today he does the most on-chain work of anyone here ☟︎
asciilifeform: for all i know, even mempool observatory would not necessarily tell you, there is 0 to stop a usg node from relaying one notional mempool to 1 peer and another to another, based on ???
asciilifeform: granted , it is impossible to say what exactly the 9000 garbage 'nodes' are running, it could be a published prb , or just about anyffin else entirely.
asciilifeform: therefore i suspect specifically the miners, for whom by a certain set of prior this idiocy appears +ev
asciilifeform: that being said, none of the prb's asciilifeform dissected to date, appeared to contain any mechanism that would preferentially propagate a tx in an n-spend set vs 'ordinary'
asciilifeform: so conceivably this also in play
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: prb ~does~ iirc have a lulzy notion that it can somehow prefer 1 tx in an n-spend tuple ~in mempool~ as 'the real tx' (the protocol offers no such mechanism, of course, tx dun contain anyffin to tie it to e.g. leading block when-issued , only a promisetronic timestamp that can equal whatever the issuer wants)
BingoBoingo: Well, if the USG has a fleet I don't know why they wouldn't prefer to propagate double spends
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: unless , i suppose, you know of some prb variant that in fact preferentially relays 'double spends'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: this is entirely separate q from the 'i sent tx1 and no one mines but then sent tx2 and bang'
BingoBoingo: I suspect a large portion of the junk nodes might simply not be relaying transactions.
asciilifeform: ( trivially, generating a tx 'to self' only costs you anyffin if ~someone else~ mines it )
asciilifeform: ... if indeed this is happening, it may also explain some of the churn liquishit that they pad blocks with -- if he cannot find a tx1-tx2 pair in the wild, then... why not generate himself.
asciilifeform: elementary napkin gametheoretical arithm suggests that it is always +ev to mine a tx for which you know a conflicting one has been issued , vs. 1 for which you do not know of one , ~if~ you think you have better connectivity (i.e. more likely to be the 1st to see the split) than other miners ( and i suspect that each of'em thinks he has best connectivity, somehow )
asciilifeform: tho it is not necessarily evidence against it, could simply mean that 'fat miner' lost the race in that particular case to a runner-up
asciilifeform: the 1 obv. hole in the hypothesis is that often enuff it is ~tx1~ that gets mined when tx2 is broadcase.
asciilifeform: * a tx2
asciilifeform: so tx2 gets mined ~immediately .
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 14:58 asciilifeform: so far the closest thing i have to a hypothesis, is that the fattest chinese want you to issue a set of conflicting tx so the thinner ones end up with longer invalidated chains
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906628 << to expand on this: say you issued tx1 where input i and output o1. he sees it, it goes to back of queue, as uninteresting, he does not mine it himself, but does relay to competitors. but if you also issue a and tx2, where input i and output o2, o2 != o1 , ~then~ tx2 goes to front of his queue, as by mining it he can throw caltrop to the competing miners , invalidating their chain ☝︎☟︎
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/04/english-judge-i-cannot-think-of-any-more-obviously-fundamental-human-right-than-the-right-of-a-man-to-have-sex-with-his-wife/ << Qntra -- English Judge: "I Cannot Think Of Any More Obviously Fundamental Human Right Than The Right Of A Man To Have Sex With His Wife"
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 04:08 mp_en_viaje: also, guiao or w/e dork in current ukraine is well and truly fucked, isn't he ? (meanwhile i saw some random comedian won 1st round for presidency in previous ukraine, imaginary usg.blue concoction both)
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906599 << Indeed. Can't even get Maduro to arrest him. China's got their Army Liberation People on the ground and in uniform handing out aid. ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: imho the 'machine has 9000 fonts and each 1 is a gnarly proggy for turing-complete ball of 1m+loc c turd' is quite similar to the 'american shop where 9000 brands of toothpaste and each 1 fulla corn syrop' thing
asciilifeform: iirc that's how the bolix people did it ( 2 fonts on the machine , 1 - typewriter, 1 - horiz. variable )
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 04:15 mp_en_viaje: so both modes are valid and important, no argument whatsoever of joining them. but i can not, physically, read the shit i read (and belive you me, i ~read~) in fixed point. i'd rather fucking hang.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906605 << i entirely agree that reading human text in typewriter chars is painful. gotta point out tho , that 'truetype' monstrosity is not justified thereby, it is possible to have horizontally-variable bitmap font (simply store the # of horiz. pixels as matrix , for 'kerning' space , and otherwise same ) ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: i suspect -- the former
asciilifeform: i dun have the mempool observatory node working yet, so am currently unable to say whether this is widespread problem or asciilifeform simply 'got lucky' errytime ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( that, and/or they want moar churn, i.e. moar fee, when you gotta send N tx where previously 1 would have sufficed )
asciilifeform: so far the closest thing i have to a hypothesis, is that the fattest chinese want you to issue a set of conflicting tx so the thinner ones end up with longer invalidated chains ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: strangely enuff, larger fee (in asciilifeform's observations) dun seem to make any diff
asciilifeform: it's riotously obnoxious and erry time i encounter it , cements in my head the 'mining is a bug'
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 08:36 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906563 , http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906572 <-- was thinking about the same, that txen should diffuse quickly; but then there I was waiting for >1hr at the 4th or so tx sent, and when I looked again it magically propagated *and* got confirmed. why this and none of the previous 3, no idea (one of them had higher tx fee, even)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-03#1906616 << this is a well-known effect ( most famously, possibly involved in how 'bitbet' burned down ) and i've personally observed it erry single time i sent coin in past coupla yrs . tx dun move until you send a conflicting tx . why the miners do this -- i still do not know ☝︎☟︎
spyked: upstack, re. tx propagation voodoo: the good part about this is that it got me into reading trb code and logs re bitcoin and trb. will be back to feedbotworks, but I'll say, this has been instructive ☟︎
lobbesbot: spyked: The operation succeeded.
spyked: !Qlater tell trinque could pl0x look at deedbot deposits when you get the time? fyi, I started two !!deposit and only did the latter; can cancel the former, I'll redo it later if needed ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-04-02 19:37 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906563 << the 1 gotcha, is that if you (or peers) are wedged (genuinely wedged, on db grind; or peers wedged; or stuck on island in sea of prb; or... buncha documented , in log, cases ) then will get exactly 'where the fuck is my tx' errytime
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906563 , http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-02#1906572 <-- was thinking about the same, that txen should diffuse quickly; but then there I was waiting for >1hr at the 4th or so tx sent, and when I looked again it magically propagated *and* got confirmed. why this and none of the previous 3, no idea (one of them had higher tx fee, even) ☝︎☝︎☟︎
mp_en_viaje: looks like it, but if not, i have a lowen thing spotted also.
diana_coman: the tv channels discovery sounds precisely like my early 90's discovery where naive-me thought at first that channel with only X meant they never repeated the stuff.
mp_en_viaje: oh by the way, ima be checking out the munchen bitcoin club thingee, https://www.meetup.com/Bitcoin-Munich/ item later today.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/zece-mii-de-kilometri-de-filme-or-ten-thousand-kilometers-worth-of-movies-either-way/ << Trilema -- Zece mii de kilometri de filme, or Ten Thousand Kilometers' worth of movies. Either way.
mp_en_viaje: i guess it's time for breakfast now.
mp_en_viaje: well... that's done, too!
mp_en_viaje goes to drown trilema.com a little ; #trilema is well drowned for the time being.
mp_en_viaje: o look, i got the whole logday all too myself. wheee!!!
mp_en_viaje: so both modes are valid and important, no argument whatsoever of joining them. but i can not, physically, read the shit i read (and belive you me, i ~read~) in fixed point. i'd rather fucking hang. ☟︎
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile, in synthetic language, character is the meaning unit, and it is fucking important the function named lil allings with the word www. OR FUCKING ELSE, gott knows we have enough byte errors even without importing a whole new pile of idiocy capable of multiplying them 3x by variable-length that confuses the eye.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 18:32 mircea_popescu: because no, words don't "have meanings". your meanings for ANY WORD are a function of ALL THE OTHER WORDS YOU KNOW. which is why my definitions regularily blow out english dictionaries, wikipedia and other sources of "wisdom" out of the water - i know more words, and in this knowledge i know all the words i know ~better~. infinitely and irreproducibly so.
mp_en_viaje: specifically : in natural language, the word is the meaning unit, and it is remembered and parsed as such by the reader portion of the brain. thus http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587276 ; but thus also "airy" characters are TERRIBLE : they suggest wordbreak (which is space) and fuck up the cache to the degree this can cost say 3x slowdown. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-19 17:09 mircea_popescu: natural language, however, ablates the trees for "convenience" so to speak, ie, uses commonly what's known in computing as sparse trees.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, to get back to the typographical discussion more substantially : there's an important difference between natural and synthetic language at work. ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: also, guiao or w/e dork in current ukraine is well and truly fucked, isn't he ? (meanwhile i saw some random comedian won 1st round for presidency in previous ukraine, imaginary usg.blue concoction both) ☟︎
mp_en_viaje: the united kingdom looks more and more like a parody channel on chinese television, "the island of buran" or something.
mp_en_viaje: but at least i found out theresa may has meanwhile solved the problem -- she'll just ask for a new delay in front of some cheap looking, chinese-made union jacks and behind the derpiest drawing of the queen's crest i ever did see.
mp_en_viaje: the thousand+ turned out to be the exact dozen-and-a-half i remember from the 80s, ie EXACTLY http://trilema.com/2017/fake-news-are-just-one-tail-of-the-failed-female-state/ problem.
mp_en_viaje: d out they have... RADIO STATIONS.
mp_en_viaje: then one got out of the dozen-cloud of rtl-*, prosieben / etc and discovered past #50 or so it's mostly derpy sports / other specialist channels all 20-30 airing the same "genius" late night cable marketing (exact same, why the fuck do you need multiple channels for same bs ? cuz it's spam, true and proper), and then tons of arabic channels which either put out cheap cartoons (qatar) or else broken transmission or w/e, and then past #100 it turne