38300+ entries in 0.023s
bvt: re 2, after a restricted ada assembler, should a ada-dos be built? mes assumes
that linux kernel is a given, which imho is a big hole in
the process
OriansJ: 1) Did you mean in regards
to minimal hardware requirements or
the set which would make it a host platform worth using after
the bootstrap is done and 2) Generally a higher level language such as Ada or C.
bvt: but are
there any other features
that help
the bootstrap? even if
this increases hardware complexity a bit
bvt: i.e. re 1 you opted for architecture where instruction encoding is easy
to do by hand
bvt: to my understanding
there are
two questions: 1. what are
the requirements
to
the architecture 2. what is
the first interim stop after a post-M1 assembler?
☟︎ BingoBoingo: OriansJ: Anyways, with my rating you can voice yourself by sending a private message
to deedbot
a111: Logged on 2019-04-05 22:26 OriansJ: bvt: well
to be honest, an Ada subset would be much easier
to implement
than a C subset;
the problem however is always available contributors.
OriansJ: BingoBoingo: I agree POSIX has a great many flaws but
there are some ideas inside of it worth preserving; especially in regards
to bootstrapping.
☟︎☟︎ BingoBoingo: But we have people deploying
things in
the present and
the
things have
to have something while
the burning continues.
BingoBoingo: Eventually
the direction seems
to be leading it
towards burning
the whole stack down, POSIX and all.
OriansJ: well let me ask it
this way; are you planning
to use a posix subset or a subset which will portable upon posix and other OS bases?
☟︎ BingoBoingo: But gotta have a fairly hygenic platform
to build
things from and deploy
them on, so
trinque has been working on capturing a hygenic and stable one.
OriansJ: Linux is much
too big for a bootstrap core piece
BingoBoingo: The constant
time bignum work helps
to inform
the crypto work
BingoBoingo: Well,
they
tend
to build on each other.
The Linux (dubbed Cuntoo) is
to escape all of
the distributions constantly changing
the base and
tools.
OriansJ: BingoBoingo: well I guess we need
to discuss short
term vs long
term expectations as
those pieces seem
to be multiple pieces pulling in different directions
☟︎ BingoBoingo: diana_coman put
together a crypto library, ave1 has a leaner GNAT, and asciilifeform has a bignum library and other products.
OriansJ: To be honest if it wasn't for wanting
to support developers who use division; M2-Planet wouldn't have even included support for it and honestly bootstrap hardware really doesn't need
that complexity
OriansJ: bvt: well
to be honest, an Ada subset would be much easier
to implement
than a C subset;
the problem however is always available contributors.
☟︎☟︎ bvt: of course, ada/gnat is
too complex for bootstrapping as-is, but i guess equivalent safety properties would be still required
a111: Logged on 2019-03-18 15:31 asciilifeform:
http://bvt-trace.net/2019/03/mes-part-1-stage0/#selection-29.94-29.340 << imho ~100% of
the attempts on record , made exactly same mistake --
they assumed
that 'architecture-specific aspects creep into
the design of
the boostrapping process' only concerns ~what is
there~ in
the arch, and not ~what is not
there~ (e.g. sane memory management,
type
tags) . if you dun put
the complexity of certain necessary sanities where it belongs -- i
OriansJ: So I hear
there is some interest in bootstrapping architectures here
☟︎ diana_coman: asciilifeform, hope you get well soon! and no, don't get
to delirium (or even serious shivers as
that's likely
to come first anyway)
mp_en_viaje: now,
this is certainly not worth doing if you're going from paris
to berlin, and probably not even
to go from milan
to minsk. but
there's approximately no other way
to
take me from san jose
to munchen in less
than 10 hours besides
this.
mp_en_viaje: wings are a quaint artefact of
the propeller era ; as commercial airliner no longer actually uses propellers,
there's no objective reason
to stick
to
the wing design.
mp_en_viaje: the cost
to make point c 500 or so km as opposed
to
the current 10 isn't
THAT significant, considering
the air is rather
thin past
the first 5-6km anyway. yes it's expensive
to defeat gravity, but not AS expensive, because it scales with square of distance anyway, by
the
time you've done 10 out of 500 you've done such a large chunk of
the work already...
mp_en_viaje: yet it is ~fundamenally geometrically incorrect~
to fly in
this manner.
the correct way
to move from point a
to point b is
to go
to a point c far enough so
that A CHANGE OF ANGLE
translates in
the change of projected position on earth's surface from a
to b.
mp_en_viaje: current airplanes have a "flight altitude" because of
the wings derpitude, and it's a value in
tension between
the needs for air friction
to support
the bucket and
the disadvantage of air friction burning fuel.
mp_en_viaje: imagine
this wonder : no more wings, airplane is a
tube, 20 or 50 or w/e rings, with a dumbwaiter in
the middle i guess, people seated around it. a rocket basically, it goes up and
then down.
mp_en_viaje: in other randoms, it occurs
to me
the future of aviation's gotta be ballistic.
mp_en_viaje: "and when he fell down without glamour or grace but a cry of 'attack!' frozen into his face all of Earth could not find slabs of marble so
tall as
to carve him as high as he stood in his fall!"
mp_en_viaje: well no, delirium is when
there's horses coming out of
the lamp and stuff like
that.
mp_en_viaje: fever is one
thing, useful and all ; but it must not get as high as delirium.
mp_en_viaje: well, "spent childhood smoking" is no argument against "smoking is good way
to cancer"
mp_en_viaje: a point of no consequence
to most people, who do not have
the last 5%. you probably want
to keep yours
though.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, seriously
though, paracetamol, water, whatever it
takes, do not deliriumfever. it is a fine way
to burn
the last 5% of cns.
mp_en_viaje: o wait,
that's not you,
that's someone else.
mp_en_viaje: see what happens if you walk around fo rhours upon hours in
the cutting wind clad in nothing but
thin nearly see-through
tropical bimbo outfits ?
mp_en_viaje: supposedly "there's a lot of statues available all around, in
the shape of marble chunks. all you have
to do is get
them out -- but careful
to not hurt
them
trying". it's a great story, it's been making
the rounds for more
than a century, but... what do you do if
there actually ISNT such a
thing as a chunk large enough ?
mp_en_viaje: "and when he fell down without glamour or grace but a cry of 'attack!' frozen into his face all of Earth could not find slabs of marble so
tall
to carve him as high as he stood in his fall!"
mp_en_viaje: in other news,
the howling beauty of asciilifeform 's latest production haunts me. diana_coman has a point yo, absolutely should be an article on yer blog. not like it's not been done before.
mp_en_viaje: in retrospect, it's
the bittersweet kind of irony
typical of how
the world actually works
that
the crowning opus of argentine govt fantasy was called
vaca muerta mp_en_viaje: BingoBoingo,
thing is, not like
the morons are using
the pampas for anything else anyway. but no, why use bsas as a port and go inland. let's all move into "capital" and eat each other's farts.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-04 12:04 diana_coman: re relish or not I quite suspect many would be way happier if
they didn't "have
to unique"
BingoBoingo: Unlike Argentina who killed
their beef export market
to feed
the derps, Uruguay is still grass fed premium export market product because Uruguay knows
they starve if
they can't export
mp_en_viaje: such sadness,
the decay of argentine beef production.
BingoBoingo: We've got restaurants serving Argentine feedlot beef (Granted
they do have
to label it as FEEDLOT lest
the beef police beat
them)
mp_en_viaje: day
three,
they're handing me cents in response
to 50 euro bill. win is win-win for
the win.
mp_en_viaje: so we
turn back and buy
two more. buttered pretzels, wunderbar, i hand out a five
they give out some coins change.
mp_en_viaje: but anyway, day 1, i'm walking
through subway, buy a pretzel at random stand. i
take one bite and recall girl off escalator. "taste
this!"
BingoBoingo: Like
the Uruguayos and
their beef.
The ones who raise beef are masters of Beef.
The ones who don't can't cook in a way
that does
the beef justice outside of
the asado
tradition.
mp_en_viaje: the
two some peoples aren't necessarily
the same.
mp_en_viaje: like i said somewhere about films, some people were put on
this earth
to make cinmatographic equipment ; some people
to use said equipment
to actually make films.
BingoBoingo: So far it sounds like
the migrants are beating
the Germans at
the civilization
thing
to get
that sorta praise
mp_en_viaje: just a buncha lebanese (i
think) doods, with
the dedication, permitting mediterranean
tradition
to finally meet frankish iron.
mp_en_viaje: easily
the best eats in all munchen are
to be found at
this humble deli stand in
the subway ; and my remembered new york's delis would be pressed
to compete.
mp_en_viaje: obviously
they do it italian style, with mother dough, stone ovens, it is definitive and unmitigated perfection.
mp_en_viaje: and
the bread...
the bread... i mean, specialist slave, been making bread for years,
this is better. FIRST
TIME anything like
this ever occured.
mp_en_viaje: i mean,
their sandwiches use
the same brie i use.
they have pastrami with horseradish mustard i wouldn't be ashamed
to offer
to visiting lords at my own
table. nothing's older
than an hour maybe,
the romaigne as crispy as if i just picked it myself
mp_en_viaje: there's
this snoot or sloot or w/e stand right between
the green/red line interconnect in hauptbanhof (central station).
these people...
mp_en_viaje: oh holy god, i have found
the deli fucking mecca.
BingoBoingo: Now, how well do
the krauts ferment
their relishes
diana_coman: re relish or not I quite suspect many would be way happier if
they didn't "have
to unique"
☟︎ diana_coman: asciilifeform: why
though not post it on your blog really? can be with
title and half a page explanations as
to how it's not-the-real-think-just-yet but still
there
mp_en_viaje bought like half dozen different
things, buttermilk
this, yogurt
that, holy shit undrinkable swill all of it.
mp_en_viaje: meanwhile in unelated lulz :
the p farnese, long
time seat of french embassy in rome, was actually given
to
the french for 99 years. in 1936. "infinity" coming
to an end soonish.
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 23:55 asciilifeform: not esp. diff. from certain birds which pick up 'unique' combo of rubbish
to glue into nest.
mp_en_viaje: in alf's
terms, isn't even need of mp personally
to hold mirror before snouts, mirror works by itself whoever holds it.
lobbesbot: trinque: Sent 16 hours and 22 minutes ago: <spyked> could pl0x look at deedbot deposits when you get
the
time? fyi, I started
two !!deposit and only did
the latter; can cancel
the former, I'll redo it later if needed
a111: Logged on 2019-04-03 08:41 spyked: !Qlater
tell
trinque could pl0x look at deedbot deposits when you get
the
time? fyi, I started
two !!deposit and only did
the latter; can cancel
the former, I'll redo it later if needed