log☇︎
357800+ entries in 0.234s
jurov: mircea_popescu: to get rid of blockchain and address problems, and have richcoin, just use csv file with noodles of gpg signatures
mircea_popescu: this is like the 20th dude.
mircea_popescu: if i were anyone else other than me i'd have a head the size of kamcheatka by now.
mircea_popescu: i am however convinced tghat i have no use for shit.
asciilifeform: i'm not convinced that rich people actually exist yet
mircea_popescu: you gotta choose. either for the poor and then shit, or else gold but not for the poor.
mircea_popescu: fundamental problem here is that bitcoin started life trying to be "gold for the poor".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the correct solution is to keep a table.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski re the missing reports : i do intend to publish them asap. been delayed by an assortment of issues such as argentinian power, bitbet adventures etc. they'll get there.
asciilifeform: and much of the gnarl in this thread stems from attempts to somehow work around this fact
asciilifeform: thing is, answering the question of 'what balance has address A at time t' is an O(N) operation on the whole motherfucking blockchain
mircea_popescu: protocol suffers from the same pass-by-reference issues the codebase suffers from.
kakobrekla: not at the moment.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla no, the only thing an address can do is send its whole contents.
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2016 00:15:36; mircea_popescu: gotta get a COMPETENT accountant to sit down and make a full list on fucking papert and then croiss them out and etc.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-01-2016#1361862 << next thing after this is you build an oar-powered passenger plane ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2016 00:16:10; mircea_popescu: we're talking ~400k fiats here or some shit.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-01-2016#1361864 << you can get adacoin for less than this, likely ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: i know more or less nothing about mircea_popescucoin, but from what i recall, the item he has now is the result of having attempted this very 'c0d3rz are fungible and 10s of k usd actually buys something' thing in the past, and ended up with... this
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu seriously thinks that he can get a monkey to correctly re-engineer the entire orchestra ?
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2016 00:10:34; mircea_popescu: yeah, right, spending the 10's of k's to fix this is not good enough, ima commit to endless millions to have electrum audited to production environment level.
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2016 00:09:03; kakobrekla: phucked txes did not get removed from wallet file with rescan
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-01-2016#1361839 << this is correct ☝︎
asciilifeform: and for all i know, some not-especially-talkative fella, perhaps even in the same shop where i work, is doing this
asciilifeform: but srsly, to 'fix' this, it is actually necessary to burn down the whole tard edifice
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2016 00:06:18; mircea_popescu: here asciilifeform, even more stuff to fix off your father's bitcoin.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-01-2016#1361822 << lulzily i just put in a long hard day laying the foundations of a provably-correct $boringwidget for $censoredrichfolks ☝︎☟︎
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2016 00:06:03; mircea_popescu: i never afore today realised this braindamage is actually in there ;/
assbot: Logged on 06-01-2016 23:57:31; mircea_popescu: a transaction that spends bitcoin from an address, that is signed and that has the bitcoin may never be rejected.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-01-2016#1361792 << this is only true if you have a correctly-implemented bitcoinatron ☝︎
asciilifeform: alternatively wait 10,000 years for a hero to be born who doesn't need to eat or sleep
asciilifeform: pay for it to happen. ☟︎
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu - or anybody else - wants ~provably working~ bitcoin - he would have to...
assbot: Logged on 06-01-2016 23:42:35; mircea_popescu: i am not in the business of debugging the blockchain, really. i am in the business of making payments. i can in fact prove that i did sign a transaction, from an address that had the coin, to the addresses that should get it.
kakobrekla: "send their total contents as follows" now i noted the 'total' - then you must never reuse an address. ☟︎
kakobrekla: also, if you do not change something in the process of paying out bbet winning this thing is bound to repeat sooner or later. ☟︎
kakobrekla: phuck tx and respend.
kakobrekla: sign to move 1 btc from that address to another
mircea_popescu: this is the correct format for a bitcoin transaction : "address i[1..n] send their total contents as follows : B1 to address j1, B2 to address j2, Bm to address jm. therefore signed."
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> no, because <mircea_popescu> a transaction that spends bitcoin from an address, that is signed and that has the bitcoin may never be rejected. << once one's accepted [some of] the others no longer are discussing an address that has the btc.
pete_dushenski: and the crowds go wild
mircea_popescu: well... so bitbet update : we went from "bitcoin is broken, will be fixed at an unspecified future date no earlier than 2020" to "bitcoin is borken, we might have a circumvention in place before the year is out".
mircea_popescu: we're talking ~400k fiats here or some shit. ☟︎
kakobrekla: yeah that prolly.
mircea_popescu: gotta get a COMPETENT accountant to sit down and make a full list on fucking papert and then croiss them out and etc. ☟︎
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu as long as the backup contains all the used change addresses you are ok
kakobrekla: re that zapwallet ☟︎
kakobrekla: > unconfirmed transactions relating to your own wallet addresses are stored not only in the memory pool, but in wallet.dat, so a restart won't clear them. To accomplish that, you can start bitcoind with the recently added -zapwallettxes option. This will cause bitcoind to forget all transactions associated to your addresses, and rescan the block chain to reconstruct them. In particular, any unconfirmed transactions will be forgotten and
kakobrekla: in the wallet
kakobrekla: if you have the addresses you will get the txes
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i'm not tracking prb.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla fancy, "use a backup". yes, i have backups. and how the fuck do i identify which payments of the HUGE batch of bitbet payments for end of year were made and which weren't, so i don't end up doublepaying ?
kakobrekla: i have not tested it yet but this is suppose to fix that
kakobrekla: btw at some point 'zapwallettxes' was added to bitcoind
pete_dushenski feels fortunate to not be in physical proximity to mp rage atm.
mircea_popescu: any other ideas while i'm throwing away money ?
mircea_popescu: yeah, right, spending the 10's of k's to fix this is not good enough, ima commit to endless millions to have electrum audited to production environment level. ☟︎
kakobrekla: yes you need to remove bad txes from wallet.dat by removing them with some wallet inspector tool or use a backup from before bad txes came in
pete_dushenski: reliant robin is an excellent example of bitcoin as it works today : looks to have the right parts but has them in the wrong order and as a result it doesn't quite work as intended. compare this with the morgan 3-wheeler, which is perhaps where trb is headed, which has the same parts, but not welded together by apes.
mircea_popescu: hahahaha WHAT THE FUCK
kakobrekla: phucked txes did not get removed from wallet file with rescan ☟︎
mircea_popescu: ima have the thing rescanned and resent. but god damned this has to be fixed omfg.
mircea_popescu: thanks for teh effort kakobrekla jurov.
mircea_popescu: nah, he drove a sort of british trabant. kept causing someone else's robin to overturrn
kakobrekla: no, because <mircea_popescu> a transaction that spends bitcoin from an address, that is signed and that has the bitcoin may never be rejected.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla and one would be mined and that'd be that.
mircea_popescu: here asciilifeform, even more stuff to fix off your father's bitcoin. ☟︎
kakobrekla: if it werent so you could just phuck a txid and respend the address multiple time given it has balance
mircea_popescu: i never afore today realised this braindamage is actually in there ;/ ☟︎
mircea_popescu: what the fuck sort of braindamaged zombie idiot designs things like this ;/
mircea_popescu: oh god damned. WHO THE FUCK DID THIS!
jurov: i messed that up as usual... so adgain: input is: a hash of a previous transaction + Index of the specific output in the referenced transaction.
assbot: Down to the last satoshi. Now with bonus poem! | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1OPhC7D )
pete_dushenski: also, "mircea_popescu: Fucking horrid terminology, we really shouldn’t be in a situation where input and output means the same thing."
jurov: input is a reference to an output from a previous transaction. output is: a hash of a previous transaction + Index of the specific output in the referenced transaction. ☟︎
danielpbarron: a transaction must refer to specific other transactions, or is a miner supposed to decide which coin days to destroy?
mircea_popescu: this is irrelevant. txids are not part of transactions.
punkman: inputs reference txids not adresses, do they not?
kakobrekla: and i mean the change addresses
kakobrekla: yes but perhaps the client selected T2 in the next transaction you made and T1 in the transaction after that.
mircea_popescu: a transaction that spends bitcoin from an address, that is signed and that has the bitcoin may never be rejected. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: unless you can say that you've nothing to say.
mircea_popescu: then you should say "i see a doublespend on your input for tx d8e60a0979024cce9159bd7b59594eae7dec627db5ac6bd088866afea533b0e9"
kakobrekla: even if they arent there any more.
kakobrekla: T is relevant because unconfirmed coins on the change address are ok to be sent.
mircea_popescu: there is not an acceptable explanation for why this should happen. in fact, it may not happen. period.
mircea_popescu: T is irrelevant for this discussion. i send btc to address x. this confirms. what t it has does not matter. i send btc from address x. this fails to be included.
kakobrekla: you make a txid T1 which gets phucked and your wallet ends up with a confirmed T2 and unconfirmed T1. this T1 stays in the wallet forever if you dont do anything to it. the client may select that never-to-be-confirmed T1 change address at any time in the future if you dont not-use it specifically.
mircea_popescu: no dude, it's not orphaned or anything. it's in the chain. again, 400+ fucking confirmations should mean something.
punkman: so you used a 6+ conf output that got orphaned or what?
mircea_popescu: in any case : at the time d8e60a0979024cce9159bd7b59594eae7dec627db5ac6bd088866afea533b0e9 was broadcast, one of the numerous txids corresponding to its input had in fact been confirmed, for 6+ blocks.
mircea_popescu: in fact, if anything can change output address, or if a third party can invalidate a valid txn i signed, bitcoin is dead.
kakobrekla: yes it will try to use the outputs of that broken tx
mircea_popescu: and in any case that MUST be all.
mircea_popescu: as long as the fucking address has coins and was signed, that is ALL.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla transactions consist of a signed bitcoin address. not of a signed bitcoin txnid.
kakobrekla: the wallet keeps broken tx (a double spend attempt) and can use it for the next tx which wont go through, ever.
mircea_popescu: but that is ALSO irrelevant : if the address had only cpoins now, the tx should go out... noe.
mircea_popescu: yes, when i issued the tx.
jurov: when you issued the tx?