log☇︎
35100+ entries in 0.021s
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 15:06 mp_en_viaje: if lisp-o-tron spits out html files and apache delivers them, this will be web-fast
lobbes_field: Now, it seems we could go many directions re: (a), but I'm partial to the lisp-to-apache route ☝︎
lobbes_field: Since (c) is in spyked's hopper already, I'll let him take this item (and I will read/sign it once genesised)
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 09:32 spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-02#1910762 <-- so far wwwism kit seems to include: a. http server, b. http://thetarpit.org/posts/y05/082-tmsr-schedule-i.html#selection-125.0-132.0, c. html gen. (a) is the next item on my list, with (c) and (b) coming next, and... is there a (d)?
lobbes_field: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911352 << still digesting this morning's logs, but it seems that re: (c) - html gen, everyone is in general agreement that cl-who would be a good place to start ☝︎
asciilifeform: possib. the eng expression 'see how sausage is made'.
mp_en_viaje: but i mean, what's the punch of the pbcomics thing
asciilifeform: there was old film, which i think mp_en_viaje's link is a frame from 'modern' remake of, where some kid unwraps a chocolate bar and 'ticket to tour the magic factory' where bathe in chocolate and etc
asciilifeform: when no ivan, it gets sold to anglos for candy wrappers redeemable in zurich for miami ticket.
BingoBoingo: Emperor goes old gender, spent decades not grooming any successors, Brazil missed its chance to be lamented like 1904 Argentina because they got their decline underway during the 1870s
asciilifeform: rright but when 'ivan' he does Right Thing and orders 'the motherland's earth treasures are for building up motherland's factories an' roads' etc
mp_en_viaje: it all revolves around whether there's ivan groznyi or not
asciilifeform: possibly the 1 thing moar decerebrating than shit poverty, is lottery money.
mp_en_viaje: well, have industry so as to extract it. your theory is experimentally weak, romania had lots of oil, had no industry under blue "ourdemcoracy" 1900 version, then had industry under red socialist democracy 1950s version, now they're fucking it up to get back to blue version, etc.
BingoBoingo: Kinda why the generals exiled emperor Pedro after they got their medals burning Paraguay
asciilifeform: if money 'grows on tree', wai have industry.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: re brazil, seems to me that petroexport and industry are a 'pick 1'. qatar case in point.
mp_en_viaje has had heat going even with outside temps at 18
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lol! i was aboutta say, 'that's where asciilifeform switches off ac, not turns on heat'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, the days get short and the latinos have the narrowest of temperature tolerances
mp_en_viaje: no idea anyone has any use for brazil except to fuck the slavegirl granddaughters with the pork asses.
BingoBoingo: Rained and smog'd all weekend here because its 60F, gotta fire up the estufas de leña
mp_en_viaje: then, china took ove rharder than expected, and well... lido got sanded.
mp_en_viaje: well, in the 80s/90s they promised to be industrial power. (eg, lua is leftover artifact from this time)
BingoBoingo: But its alright because everyone has "estufas de leña" and they'll chase away UPM before they can break ground on the mill in order to have the Eucalyptus planted in the 90's to keep them warm in the winter.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-08 15:02 asciilifeform: the 'good climate makes folx lazy and slowly climbing 'back up to trees' ' item is an old saw, but i'm not aware of any major hole in the theory
asciilifeform: near as i can tell, current-day brazil is a petromiamistan, rather like current ru (picture if ru were moved to equator, for extra tropical-stupidity radiation damage ..) ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: generally how poor people activity works. look at what they claim not to be doing, it's what they're doing.
BingoBoingo: They keep saying they don't want to go down the Venezuela road while dragging everyone down the Venezuela road
BingoBoingo: mp_en_viaje: They imagine the president is a servant of the labor syndicate.
asciilifeform: in quasirelated lulz, asciilifeform went for 1st time into brazil's embassy in ameristan, the other day (it was on exhibit) . 100% snoar except for the wall deco, whole place was done up with vintage paintings of slaves being unloaded from boats, whipped, auctioned, etc
mp_en_viaje: shit, why not just "more dynamic and oriented with the requirements of the times"
BingoBoingo: "Además, señaló que va a negociar con el gobierno uruguayo la devolución de la concesión de la distribución de gas. “La escala que tenemos en Uruguay no nos interesa”, expresó al medio brasileño Estadao de San Pablo. La noticia tomó por sorpresa al Poder Ejecutivo y generó que el sindicato le pida al gobierno una actitud más proactiva."
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, yes, well, electing a goat to drive bus ain't gonna get any busses driven.
mp_en_viaje: rather, the inept cocksuckers "arrested" elite because "corruption", fell nobody-could-have-predictedly in http://trilema.com/2011/povestea-celor-trei-imparati-smecheri-si-a-celor-trei-negustori-fraieri-fabula-in-versuri-ilustrata/#selection-69.206-69.436 failure mode.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Some derps at the Petrobras "Montevideo Gas" natgas distribution plant were fucking around with a rifle inside the plant. At the same time Bolsonaro in Brazil wants to shrink Petrobras and privatize it. Petrobras annouces it wants to sell its 88 service stations and exit the Uruguayo market. Throughout all of this "labor" is thrashing about in disbelief.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: what's the prime mover there? e.g. did 'exxon' promise'em miami if they sabotage brazil ?
BingoBoingo: In continued labor flaffing, drivers for Uruguay's petrol company about to stop driving petrol to Petrobras service stations, wreckers at PIT-CNT sure if they thrash enough "puestos de trabajo" can be saved and "Why do they want to leave anyways?" https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/fancap-cortara-suministro-de-combustibles-a-petrobras-20195611243
BingoBoingo: 2-3 Kw power source with more longevity than an rtg
BingoBoingo: No matter his location, the rolling must be harnessed
asciilifeform: perhaps is the seekrit behind the lulz, even. 100 y.o. d00d is running the show.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 16:10 mp_en_viaje: kissinger is probably rolling in grave worth at least 2-3 kW over the whole guaio comedy.
asciilifeform: prolly already televised competition in jp or sumsuch
asciilifeform: i suppose this is a possible 'harem sport' -- chix take turns drinking one another's 'morarji cola' , last 1 to give up, winner
asciilifeform: 'then we will die and feed the worms, feed the worms, ducks, they will come and eat'em up, eat'em up, others will come and eat up ducks, eat the ducks...' etc i fughet how the rest.
asciilifeform: iirc there's an english folk song about ~this.
mp_en_viaje: started with 30 ducks, cut one up, fed it to remainder 29, ... fed penultimate duck to last duck.
mp_en_viaje: guy established a duck most voracious animal in nature, can eat thirty ducks, through the following pocedure :
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, you know that experiment with the ducks ?
mp_en_viaje: currently sitting with very nice tawny port, coffee etc in elaborate cafe an' "this place would be so nice if it didn't have a piano" were the last words out of my mouth.
asciilifeform: if they drink tho, will have to empty'em eventually eh.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, well, rather's the situation, i move from restaurant to cafe and from cafe to club and from club to hotel and from etcetera. i suppose if i were desperate i could order a girl drink me, but so far's not been any need for that.
mp_en_viaje: half dressed dood totally would've sucked it if i said something
mp_en_viaje: certainly not since crossing the pond. previously, went to pee in sabana (relatively large cr park) and discovered in the process the toilets there primo A++ gay cruising material, reminiscent of glory days of new york gay life
asciilifeform: cuz not designed to house 200 hobos / hour
mp_en_viaje: it occurs to me i had no impulse to seek a public toilet, i can't recall since when.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: today yes for free. result is that they nearly always resemble the timis item (albeit with ~working throne)
asciilifeform: dunno re when mp_en_viaje was still there, but incidentally the spiffy underground toilets in the museum square were chained shut, when i saw'em in '17
mp_en_viaje: mcd wil llet you shit for free, for that matter.
asciilifeform: in usa there are ~0 public toilets in the euro sense.
asciilifeform: 'anti-communism' types for some reason have this 'biological' antipathy for concept of working public toilet. 'if you want to shit, buy a bigmac and mcd will letya take shit'
asciilifeform: and afaik the object is pretty typical in post-sovok space. ( and iirc the celts also returned to shitting where they stood when rome left britain . cuz wainot, right. )
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, i'm not even sure i ever saw that particular one. not that there's any shortage.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 14:47 asciilifeform: first gotta fully describe the atrocity, so as it is not repeated in future. mp_en_viaje recall that shoemaker-era defunkt public toilet in timis 3 blocks from 'kaufland' ?
mp_en_viaje: kissinger is probably rolling in grave worth at least 2-3 kW over the whole guaio comedy. ☟︎
asciilifeform in 2010-12 'surely usg will muster king's horses and king's men' days , did not expect it to look like gavin, expected moar microshit-style 'embrace&extend', e.g. 'ibm bitcoin client' or sumsuch
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: evidently enuff wreckers were left over for older, smaller things, even tho bitcoin.
asciilifeform: if had to give approx. date, tho, would say ~2011 .
asciilifeform: given any particular cl relic, it is usually not difficult to say which half of the divide it fell into
a111: Logged on 2019-05-06 15:00 phf: mp_en_viaje: it's the shitsoup ecosystem, there's a handful of packages smartly written, like hunchentoot or cl-http, and then there's new wave of cffi-everything approaches, that stand tall and pretend to be people
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-05-06#1911437 << at 1 time i dug into phf's leads in prev thread re subj and tried to determine a 'time of death', i.e. approx moment when -- apparently -- the 'old guard' (folx who maybe quasi-remembered, secondhand, lispm) retired/decamped/descended into bottle, and poetterings took over. but then realized it is not esp. useful q to ask. ☝︎
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: yea it is wrong link. but so far not found the needed one.
mp_en_viaje attempted to read the year-old convo you linked here, seems to me it's substantially unrelated. i was protesting poor organisation on historical lisp team, the "oh but c sucks" point never was either disputed or much engaged.
asciilifeform: i'm not aware of any previous cl httptron that made this particular cut, so it's defo worth attempting imho.
mp_en_viaje: if that's the cut, you may get away with no need to anything besides the fs.
mp_en_viaje: meaning, updates may be slow to propagate, but consider -- new trilema article takes 15 mins to make it to rss, and as far as any rss reader is concerned, it
mp_en_viaje: if lisp-o-tron spits out html files and apache delivers them, this will be web-fast ☟︎☟︎
mp_en_viaje: i do not think this is necessarily so, specifically because of the narrowness of http usecase.
asciilifeform: rright, asciilifeform however must point out why the map will inevitably read like the description of the 'cultural layer' in the timis toilet.
mp_en_viaje: i thought phf 's idea was to map the set vs the usecase set.
asciilifeform: it is very easy to describe a working scheme, and afaik pretty much all of these variants are in use somewhere. but all have same set of problem.
mp_en_viaje: i'm not giving implementation details, i'm tryna draw the architectural lines.
mp_en_viaje: but there's also the c) of "use the fucking filesystem as an interface", X dumps to file and Y reads from file
asciilifeform: yer still stuck with ffiism tho, i.e. can't even open socket to receive input from apache w/out it.
mp_en_viaje: ie, the interface will have to exist. now -- it'll either be a) "magic" in the sense of cl-http, whatever, graybeard asked thor and thor did him a personal fabvour ; or else b) "magic", in the sense of loli veira asked her daddy, and her daddy told her she's pretty, so clearly. african magic.
phf: tbnl from which hunchentoot comes used to be pure mod_lisp, another code to look at ☟︎
mp_en_viaje: this honestly may be the third workable design : have an "abstract" lisp server for http, have an apache in front of it.
phf: mp_en_viaje: it's the shitsoup ecosystem, there's a handful of packages smartly written, like hunchentoot or cl-http, and then there's new wave of cffi-everything approaches, that stand tall and pretend to be people ☟︎☟︎
mp_en_viaje: i dunno, i've not sawed it thoroughly appart. but seems vaguely flavoured in right thing vein
mp_en_viaje: i think apache mod cl thing brings it up once per instance (of apache)
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: it's been tried, 'cl as script lang', bog slow cuz bringing it up ( cl on x86 is moar or less halfbaked lispm emulator ) takes time.
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, really insufferable, this "ease of everything" they've "built" in the way you describe above re broken toilet. it works well for an everything that takes values from the set shit, piss, cigg butt, beer bottle, ad flyer, fcmg wrapper.
mp_en_viaje: rather than try and pretend lisp is a workable systems language on x86 and then "ffi"ing all over the place.
mp_en_viaje: have lisp run as a scripting language (which is to say, inferior, kiddy fare) inside adult programs.
asciilifeform: mp_en_viaje: the folx who 'i went to 7 countries! i.e. ate 'bigmac' in 7 diff. mcdonaldsen' ? that's exactly it.
mp_en_viaje: phf, thinking about it, it would seem the apache approach is the only sane one.
a111: Logged on 2019-05-05 19:23 mp_en_viaje: anyways, even with civillians... me spent a few hours in the tiniest spa known to mankind. rando couple, "soo.. .are you a triplet ?" "actually, they're my slaves" "wut?!?!?" "do you know what bdsm is ?" dude : nope ; chick yup.
mp_en_viaje: i run into these schmucktards with the "ourdemocracy" beards all the damned time. "oh, i've been to spain". no, motherfucker, you haven't been to spain. ☝︎
phf: that's why my original "add how much ffi to your list", so that any ffi can be immediately dismissed
asciilifeform: asciilifeform came to conclusion 'build new irons' decade ago not because masochist, but because direly overdue sole solution to whole slew of otherwise-intractable problem.