log☇︎
35000+ entries in 0.199s
asciilifeform: cent is like a beautiful dream, for most opensores sufferers
mircea_popescu: because totally, that's what i'm competing with. it's not the case that per-hour imperial pay for computer work is under a cent.
mircea_popescu: pretty much every single thread of "oh, alf could solve this problem -- in a vacuum" comes down to this, an incorrect choice between the two in one of those rare field cases where adherence actually trumps elegance.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, you will not die if you step out of a narrow model. you're a very elegant thinker, and evidently imagine elegance is the only possible value. nevertheless, adherence can on occasion, howsoever rarely but proportionally painfully, actually more valuable than elegance.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> and reasonable performance seems to require manual shift and 'formula 1' pro race driver << Nah, Plenty of enthusiast vehicles are starting to get a "Drag Racing" transmission mode. Shifting in motorsports is mostly preserved for the sport aspect as opposed to the motor part.
asciilifeform: how's it a lie ? i measured it, it dun write.
asciilifeform: phf in fact yielded up a pill that 1) makes it happen 2) doesn't write to disk
mircea_popescu: your problem isn't "postregs 10.0". your problem is exactly what i told you yest -- you want support for your recursion exposed by a fucking declarative lang. wtf.
asciilifeform: does mircea_popescu recognize a diff b/w e.g. 'you must learn grassman algebra to understand $system' and 'you must learn postgres 10.0 ...' ?
mircea_popescu: you understand this ? your car ALSO doesn't expose injector timings to you. i don't care you think you'd do a better job by hand. the direction's been away froim the fucking clutch, even. i personally own a car running tiptonic gearbox and girl who's an excellent stick driver, and she STILL prefers the autoclutch. because the machine does it way the fuck better, what.
phf: mircea_popescu: the ones that don't tend to be contracted by large postgresql users, but then the incentive is fucked up, because large postgresql users have already worked around the well known voodoo cases and want fancy new features instead, that run orthogonal to core (and in a very high level architectural sense are often the result of the core's "voodoo" limitations)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: conceivably you could use a subset-of-sql-used-in-mpwp on top of it.
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform also suspects that the very problem of 'kill sql' is ill-posed, and that sane replacement would be a much humbler and lower-level thing that actually exposes the mathematical data structures -- e.g. btree -- in a programmable way, with no attempt at 'intelligence' and ~iron~ correspondence b/w what one writes and what the machine does )
asciilifeform: phf: and yes also it's a 'job creation language', and imho undeservedly gets good reputation among thinking people ( e.g. mircea_popescu ) because it is the 'jobs for greybeards' type, rather than 'for 19yo shits' a la perl
phf: i suspect a lot of these obvious derivations are well known too, but there's like 5 people who know enough postgresql internals to implement them.
asciilifeform: wasn't a 'code bug', but algo.
asciilifeform: this sounds great until it is time to 'unfind' a factor, as in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-25#1805504 or the prev case where the thing turned up a corner case in bernstein and found 300+ or wat was it spurious factors ☝︎
mircea_popescu: if your complaint is "why is my counting take time to count", the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-26#1805658 solution is "keep a count, add to it". ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-26 16:06 mircea_popescu: ~at that time~, whenever it is, you can also insert them into a separate table with an autoindex field.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-26#1805702 << i'm surprised that mircea_popescu did not go straight to 'increment a counter when they're found!' ☝︎
mod6: anyway, might be a moot point now that youve changed your number crucher thingy.
mircea_popescu: ~at that time~, whenever it is, you can also insert them into a separate table with an autoindex field. ☟︎
asciilifeform: the 'announce' is not a push process. when rss pg is loaded, and cache expired, it actually issues the query
mircea_popescu: then you can offer a count as good as anyone knows.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, seems to me you can always fill the cracked moduli table at the time you announce them to deedbot. shouldn't lock your main moduli table in being a diff table.
mod6: shouldn't have been a problem with row-level locking neh?
mircea_popescu: i can't see how this could possibly work ?! so you made a special, "this is where we copy cracked moduli" table, and inserted into it, and this slowed your querties on your main table ?
asciilifeform: deedbot gets rss turd that is a cached copy, generated asynchronously
mircea_popescu: just one insert whenever you find a nerw one.
mircea_popescu: save a copy somewhere, what's it cost you.
asciilifeform: however 'has factors' does not correspond to a row.
mircea_popescu: well, i imagine eg the cracked moduli get sent to a table of their own.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is trivial for only the items that correspond to rows of a table
mircea_popescu: now, whether the abstrusity has any good practical reason, that's a different concern. but in principle you can end up with the sad fate where both "trying to go to the store" is a lifetime adventure and there's very good reasons for it being so.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, there ~can~ be a reason for it. you're saying "whether the geometry is braindamaged or not depends on whether my naive assumptions of metrics are satisfied or not, therefore only some of the n-spheres are valid geometry". not so.
asciilifeform: ( 'how perverse the imposed model' is imho not a purely subjective statement -- and goes back to the 'orthogonality' discussion; if , as in the earlier thread, in your system adding a 'not' gate suddenly turns a o(n log n) op into a o(n^2), this is perverse, as there cannot be any mathematical justification for it, it is purely a result of braindamaged programmers
mod6: The field has a lot of depth. It's kinda wild.
mod6: I kinda like trying to performance tune databases a bit... just as long as I don't have to "own" the db.
mircea_popescu: and since most people a) have to deal with "idea men", ie dorks whose undisciplined mental process was never really checked by reality and b) don't ever have the authority to tell them off... well... of course the result is temptation to suicide.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-26#1805578 << article updated; possibly 1st time querying ( believe or not... ) reddit, yielded up a useful seekrit ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, as a general rule, when diagnosis tools are 0 help pretty much everywhere the problem is not the "poor quality of the ultrasound". you gotta be a doctor to read those.
mod6: It can be especially bad when you inherit a wing-ding pile of garbage (i.e. no constraints, the usual nonsense) that also happens to be a sacred cow.
mod6: It was recently that someone was like, "Hey, come work for us, there is a role as Database Arch..." "Umm. No thanks..."
asciilifeform: but yes, trinque , as phf demonstrated, with sufficient years of study of black magic, it is almost possible to use sql as if it were a sane tool created by sane people.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-26 03:41 trinque: re: db, I'm reserving a lul now for when asciilifeform discovers that postgresql does, in fact, tell you what an operation will cost before you run it.
trinque: mircea_popescu had it, industrial machinery, organizes gigantic sets, does a few things to make sure the wad isn't lost.
trinque: re: db, I'm reserving a lul now for when asciilifeform discovers that postgresql does, in fact, tell you what an operation will cost before you run it. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: there's a very deep link between "putin doesn't understand how the world works ; notwithstanding which he stole our election" and "cell (5,7) on your screen".
mircea_popescu: unlike vbasic and moreover, the very fucking NOTION of "here is a list of cells, grapghically displayed"
ben_vulpes: btw mircea_popescu #templeos-irc is a wall of noise, terry is out to lunch
ben_vulpes: that said the rigorish typing of postgres has been a boon in this one circumstance where the tower of complexititus threatens to overwhelm me at every step
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-04-25 01:18 mircea_popescu: a db is a good tool for pre-given solutions for some kinds of problems. it is not a tool for implementing arbitrary expressivity.
mircea_popescu: got a rsa key shurdeek ?
trinque: ugh, shame on me. that was running in a tmux
mircea_popescu: hey phf can i get a count of words / day in my loglines ?
mircea_popescu: it's always a good idea to listen to "the experts".
mircea_popescu: such a good thing five successive generations of nulands did in germany.
BingoBoingo: Still need a lot more practice
phf: asciilifeform: i would be pleasantly surprised if the machine can have a blobless video/wifi
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Seriously, most hoppable fence of them all so far. Except well, Panama but they don't have a fence at all. Front door opens into the street.
asciilifeform: ( there doesn't appear to be a self-eating compiler in'ere... )
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-25#1805414 << mezzano seems -- since i last looked -- to be almost enuff to make an actual workstation os out of , if anybody bothered to get hold of a e.g. apu1 with sage snake and tailor it properly to the iron ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-25 04:01 mircea_popescu: but in the general i suppose polarbeard's adventure is kinda illustrative of YET ANOTHER failure mode of personal heroics. besides the "lalala i can't hear" style there's apparently also the "oh, who has time for small steps, i'ma make huge contributions as a virtual unknown".
a111: Logged on 2018-04-25 03:53 phf: trinque: there wasn't anything wrong with polarbeard's patches in general, he just happened to be doing his work when there was a lot of regrinds going on in the tree and after third time he was asked to regrind he decided he had enough and quit
a111: Logged on 2018-04-25 06:27 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-24#1805245 <- for the light+clean gentoo factor I'd buy one but I can't say I see atm a case for buying a lot of them
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-25#1805494 << i can't picture who ( other than mircea_popescu in his described possible use case ) would need more than 1 ( or perhaps 2, 1 as a spare ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-25 04:27 mircea_popescu: someone somewhere has like... a very large pitchfork or something. "town attraction" "why, because you folk spend too long in the sun ?"
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-25#1805483 <-- oh, youmeanlike https://imgur.com/a/6d5Atjc ? ☝︎
mircea_popescu: is that a pun ?
a111: Logged on 2018-04-24 23:41 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, diana_coman , et al, other folx who travel -- i'd like to get a picture of whether there is 'market' in l1/l2 for a pre-engentooated ( laugh at the laddel-ism, but it promises to be a somewhat painful process involving crocodile and eeprom writer ) 'c101pa' rockchip lappy .
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-24#1805245 <- for the light+clean gentoo factor I'd buy one but I can't say I see atm a case for buying a lot of them ☝︎☟︎
mod6: That day I think I set a PR for furthest driven in one single day: OKC->Dallas->El Paso->Tucson
mircea_popescu: someone somewhere has like... a very large pitchfork or something. "town attraction" "why, because you folk spend too long in the sun ?" ☟︎
mircea_popescu: "Odessa is a city in western Texas. Downtown, Jack Ben Rabbit is an 8-foot-tall statue of a jackrabbit. "
trinque: after that, he says his computer didn't work (hey, you're a computer guy, right?) and showed me a picture of a dell laptop docking station, so who knows. maybe he goes out and drinks beer on his chicken
trinque: to digress, one of the guys called the porch a "pollo" and I swear he was fucking with me.
mod6: phf: this is a solid point. I think everyone wants their own way of logging/logging statements.
phf: yeah, it was a combination of factors. his logging facility patch received a lot of criticism, though i now regret voicing mine. it's a bit of a bike shed problem, everyone has their own idea of how to do it "right", but it's not done to this day.
mircea_popescu: phf, a yeah, there was some of that too, it's coming back to me now.
mod6: <+trinque> mod6: I've got a sendrawtxn patch sitting over here << actually, i should mention that i /did/ create a trb sendrawtransaction (just this one rpc call) vpatch late last year, but never sent -- really wanted the rest of the gang 'create', 'sign', etc.
mircea_popescu: but in the general i suppose polarbeard's adventure is kinda illustrative of YET ANOTHER failure mode of personal heroics. besides the "lalala i can't hear" style there's apparently also the "oh, who has time for small steps, i'ma make huge contributions as a virtual unknown". ☟︎
trinque: I don't expect to make that one mainline "trb" though, unless somewhere down the line somebody also breaks off script.cpp into a tx compiler, breaks off a signer, etc
mod6: So im trying to balance all that a bit.
trinque: the wallet rm -rf is something of a megapatch, but at least mostly redlining.
mod6: That said, it doesn't make a ton of sense to be off tilting at wind-mills if there are already reasonable solutions.
mircea_popescu: he made one megapatch, people were like "yeah, nice, now split it out in bits" ; he tried but didn't find a ready way to do it and kinda went silent.
mod6: I've been working a bit further on my own, seeing how it could be done by what exists. I should look back at polarbeards stuff too.
phf: trinque: there wasn't anything wrong with polarbeard's patches in general, he just happened to be doing his work when there was a lot of regrinds going on in the tree and after third time he was asked to regrind he decided he had enough and quit ☟︎
trinque: I'm blocked on not having the manifest, so next on my plate is to regrind every patch with a manifest entry.
trinque: got one that rips out the noui.h idiocy too, and a few others that need finishing before I fork a walletless trb
trinque: mod6: I've got a sendrawtxn patch sitting over here
phf: though sbcl found a way to fuck with the standard do, using style warnings (ambiguity in the standard can be encouraged in a specific direction along the "mktemp is unsafe!1" lines)
mircea_popescu: i thought it had a standards document and everything.
phf: i treat the exercise as a chinese room wired to explosives. making a mistake elevates danger level, passage of time elevates danger level, there's a random factor when it's going to blow anyway, etc.
asciilifeform found , seems , a working formulation, set up experiment...
phf: but there's only so few rabbis i can pull out of a hat
mircea_popescu: it's a piece of industrial machinery.
mircea_popescu: it does nothing else. it doesn't impress chicks, it doesnm't win speed contests, it's not a car.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, dude. it's a tool. like a steamroller. it does the following thing well : if you have cans, it makes them flat.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this'd be in the actual cruncher, a c proggy