log☇︎
3800+ entries in 0.111s
bvt: on posix, don't think there is way out of exposing fds and syscalls
bvt: true, but i don't find '80% of cl argument' too convincing; if want comfort, sure, use cl/python; want hard memory limits and gcc performance, can use ada, it won't be fundamentally dirtier (due to tcp and db stuff), just more boilerplate code
asciilifeform: but i strongly suspect that 'ada logtron' will consist mostly of non-humanreadable hex constants , and the pg glue will be eating null-termed c strings , and generally the result will not be a thing you 'would fly in it? i wouldn't walk under it!'(tm)(r)(h. hughes)
bvt: i don't think there is a way out of treating utf8ism as raw bytes, other than finding a heathen library
asciilifeform: and would not even be able to "<a>" + whatever + "</a>" etc, i.e. can't use the existing sugar for string constants at all
bvt: re logotron with arbitrary number of messages - can't you send data in a loop? otherwise the problem touches all levels of net stack -- can't have arbitrary sized packets either
asciilifeform: don't tell me, 'in heap'
asciilifeform: or do i misunderstand 'don't need to concatenate'
bvt: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926433 << you don't actually need to concatenate anything as long as writev(3) is there. whether any gnat lib uses it -- dunno. at least nginx does use it (http://archive.is/QKjvD#selection-2735.36-2861.26), and imo this is a correct approach to the problem -- let kernel do the copying, if it needs to
asciilifeform: bvt: funnily enuff, i actually tried adacore's -- wouldn't build
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 05:09:42 spyked: speaking of which, asciilifeform, could you bring snsabot in #spyked? wouldn't hurt to have it listening there.
asciilifeform: ( granted it only covers #t afaik )
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926776 << i can't speak for erryone, but, in case wasn't clear, asciilifeform spends HOUR+ (and sometimes several h) erry single day of the week reading coad at btcbase/patches ! it is quite essential tool , fully 20-30% boost of brain to asciilifeform . that being said, would be imho a++ if you found how to make it eat patches/sigs through a www-based hopper, like jurov's earlier it
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 05:13:06 mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926690 << i suspect there may be fundamental reasons for which there simply can't be such a thing as "a tmsr lang"
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 04:49:48 spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926462 <-- it does that indeed, as per http://coad.thetarpit.org/feedbot/feedbot/c-feedbot.lisp.html#L8 ; heck I'll set it to 2sec if that guarantees it won't fail; but yeah, fleanode provides no actual guarantees.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 17:02:19 asciilifeform: you can't even concat 2 strings w/out 'secondary stack'ism
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 04:45:56 spyked: also, I guess there's also the fact that despite all its problems, there's a pile of CL code (e.g. hunchentoot, cl-irc) that works... very similarly to how wordpress does the job, despite its size and other warts. maybe Ada could also find similar pieces of code for Ada, but tbh I haven't looked... yet?
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926667 << 'Мы на горе всем буржуям Мировой пожар раздуем!'(tm)(r)(a. blok) . sometimes exactly what is needed, is flamethrower. can't speak for others, but this is what asciilifeform orig found appealing about mircea_popescu . there's no shortage of what needs burnin'
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 03:21:27 mp_en_viaje: (idea is, you !!v a buncha times and safely decrypt, then store the otps use as needed. this was discussed years ago, it's good cuz it don't expose the keys on bot's iron)
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-08 22:24:24 asciilifeform: expects that before long, we'll find out that the pythonisms can't in fact be reliably reproduced, because 'ecosystem updated' or whateverthefuck rots
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 00:44:50 thimbronion: BingoBoingo: I can't decrypt the invoice - it is encrypted to a key I don't have.
a111: Logged on 2019-08-09 01:43 asciilifeform expects that before long, we'll find out that the pythonisms can't in fact be reliably reproduced, because 'ecosystem updated' or whateverthefuck rots
lobbes: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926600 << not in my mind; already on my iron. Like I said, it isn't an ideal system (there is a thread somewhere already on this), but both of my bots have their respective (dundundun) private keys sitting on the iron. I issue a command and the bots go and do the decrypting.
mircea_popescu: the point isn't whether "it works out" ; the point is that no old merchant from the age of sail, successful or otherwise, would've traded his life out for landlubbers'.
mircea_popescu: not that i invented it, it's what rimbaud did, it's what plenty of people've already done. not usually studied in girl school for girls, but that's entirely a diff story. and no, it doesn't usually work out.
spyked: lulz. apparently "friends" is somewhat popular in ro nowadays, there's marathon reruns on tv and I see all these chicks with brand t-shirts on the street... well, I'm assuming they watch it
mircea_popescu: spyked, amusingly, at the time seinfeld ran a bunch of morons were remaking it. "friends" (with that blonde dumb cunt, what's her name). it didn't work even then
mircea_popescu: one can't help but wonder what'd lynch done with a billion.
mircea_popescu: the obnoxious part is that tarantino didn't get 50% of sopranos income ; nor lynch of xfiles. though THEY WERE OWED
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't cut that.
spyked: mircea_popescu, purely from the user's point of view, it works reliably as far as I can see. and two days ago I wrote a simple mock "comment eater" for thetarpit and was reasonably productive. I haven't found any major flaws yet, so I'll continue working through the code.
spyked: mircea_popescu, re. tmsr lang: could be one of two or three (or I dunno how many) langs, as long as tmsr owns 'em. atm there's no genesis for a cl compiler/interpreter (let alone e.g. networking code a la usocket, or a curl etc.), so... inb4 "fuck you spyked, I can't even compile sbcl, how do you want me to stand up your logotron"
mircea_popescu: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-09#1926690 << i suspect there may be fundamental reasons for which there simply can't be such a thing as "a tmsr lang"
mircea_popescu: this is obviously a charicature, for one thing the not giving a shit works both ways, for another i'm getting old, and so following. but i suppose you get the idea -- to borrow alf's metaphore a sackfull of lymphocites ain't getting very far in life.
mircea_popescu: i'm the sort of guy who ~had to think~ school is cool, or else wouldn't have gone. as a nine year old. i'm the sort of guy who told his father where to stick it. as a teen. there's currently a whole regiment of women literally dedicating their life to interfacing as much of the world as possible so i don't start burning it down, because yes, absolutely, the moment i'm not happy with how things are going there i am, jerry c
spyked: speaking of which, asciilifeform, could you bring snsabot in #spyked? wouldn't hurt to have it listening there.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-08-09 03:16:10 mp_en_viaje: also spyked, you never said anything re http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926226 ; is #spyked something you're serious about or not just yet ? i don't mean to make that call for you by sheer accident. anyone else ? Mocky ?
spyked: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926462 <-- it does that indeed, as per http://coad.thetarpit.org/feedbot/feedbot/c-feedbot.lisp.html#L8 ; heck I'll set it to 2sec if that guarantees it won't fail; but yeah, fleanode provides no actual guarantees.
spyked: also, I guess there's also the fact that despite all its problems, there's a pile of CL code (e.g. hunchentoot, cl-irc) that works... very similarly to how wordpress does the job, despite its size and other warts. maybe Ada could also find similar pieces of code for Ada, but tbh I haven't looked... yet?
mircea_popescu: it's the intrinsic limit on dealmaking, and why the glib narcissist does well there -- very effectually defensive of the self AND not that much there to begin with. because that's always the best kept secret of the well defended fortress -- there wasn't so much inside to begin with.
mp_en_viaje: 3) the whole of it was always hanging out with the cool people. i don't mean, "cool", as in, swag. i mean cool as in david lynch quote above, dork bought a 12 room house for $3500 in th worst gangland he could find for his wife and newborn kid and lived there, "the fear was palpable"
mp_en_viaje: i don't mind saying, but keep in mind you're doing the equiv of asking columbus things about finding new continents. he ~doesn't know~. irrespective of what data may suggest, he was just there coincidentally, at right time.
mp_en_viaje: this is utterly fucking false, of course. the telegraph doesn't get in a month the daily readership of trilema. but i think the ~pervasiveness~ of the antiquated, and mistaken, worldview may rub off on people.
trinque: I don't for the record know what I'd say, cognizant that I ought to say.
trinque: I don't perceive an alternative.
trinque: isn't this what the republic needs, the place to talk that's intentionally constructed?
trinque: I suppose I am an extremist and I wouldn't think of ^ by myself
mp_en_viaje: publish a breakfast shot sometime. it's so much better than nothing you can't imagine.
mp_en_viaje: (idea is, you !!v a buncha times and safely decrypt, then store the otps use as needed. this was discussed years ago, it's good cuz it don't expose the keys on bot's iron)
mp_en_viaje: also spyked, you never said anything re http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926226 ; is #spyked something you're serious about or not just yet ? i don't mean to make that call for you by sheer accident. anyone else ? Mocky ?
asciilifeform expects that before long, we'll find out that the pythonisms can't in fact be reliably reproduced, because 'ecosystem updated' or whateverthefuck rots ☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i realise now i didn't even spec the bot correctly, it's supposed to multiline if multi links
asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-08-08#1926462 << in snsabot, it's 0.1s right nao (t_delay knob in config )
mircea_popescu: i also don't know how i reason
asciilifeform: you can't even concat 2 strings w/out 'secondary stack'ism
diana_coman: ultimately sure; currently I don't know; I even sketched quickly an Ada thing - main trouble though is lack of proper db interface (and otherwise relying on GNAT.Sockets and therefore the whole strand of streams etc)
diana_coman: asciilifeform: do you have any suggestion for what might "sumthingelse" reasonably be? because I can't see it
asciilifeform: 'join_t = 20' atm.
diana_coman: and I find out I didn't miss at all not using python for years; onth no idea what else would be better for such a task since it can't be really clean anyway
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as you can tell from last coupla comments on your www, even there i missed initially a spot of retardation (fleanode lets you auth, but if you join ~immediately~ then won't be authed for purpose of +r chans. this is documented nowhere.)
asciilifeform: PeterL: recv timeout doesn't disconnect. state machine goes to recv again.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i asked for it ; and then i didn't find it that useful either. i'm guessing i just don't understand what wuld be useful exactly.
diana_coman: tbh I also don't quite grok what's the status re irc as there was the plan to move and so on
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, honestly i wouldn't worry about this, let's see who steals it.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: hm; the chan is meant to be official rather than community (like eulorum) so I suppose at some point we should, shouldn't we;
diana_coman: mircea_popescu: we don't run a logger; the site is on shared hosting with pizarro
mircea_popescu: apparently can't find online. japanese thing, white plastic, squarish
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have a half-written 'raw csv' shitter knob, won't make it into genesis but prolly will be among 1st patches afte
mircea_popescu: i have working ocrtron, just, didn't pack it. already diana ross over here, 200+lbs of shit.
asciilifeform: also all of this wasn't particularly hard, lobbes gave up imho too quickly.
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't send anyone to learn from mod6 as things stand.
mircea_popescu: hey BingoBoingo now that i can drop it in, do you recall the lafond article in question ? i remember fucking reading it, but i can't find it again ;/
mircea_popescu: blessed be the innocent, they don't even know what happened lolz.
mircea_popescu: aite, im not gonna add auctionbot and lobbesbot to +V list then, because they're like... the only bots that don't suck ?
mircea_popescu: i don't fucking get it though. how the fuck do lobbesbot and scriba have voice ?
mp_en_viaje: i will be setting the #trilema channel to silence until we actually have working logs ; which is hopefully mid august. this situation where there's a single logger that's even still going coincidentally, perhaps because maintainer was so deeply unreachable others couldn't even reach out to sync downtime is too much to paper over.
mp_en_viaje: btw lobbes for some reason your root (http://lobbesblog.com/) doesn't load.
mp_en_viaje: if you don't know what you should be doing, you don't belong here. if you do know what you should be doing, start fucking doing it already.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-01#1926141 << understand, the relationship is not symmetrical. this "mod6 isn't building off what mp says, just says his own things" thing you're trying will not work out any better for you than it worked every other time someone else tried it before. i get that the self-feeling of specialness is the core and root of all hominids, but that doesn't promise it also does something outside the skull. se ☝︎
mod6: Ah, jeeze. mircea_popescu isn't here is he.
mod6: Like I said earlier this year, I do care about my wot-rating, so I don't want to damage that. Let's discuss/work together to help me move on from these things.
mod6: This year, I've done what I could with the time I have available, which, indeed, is far less time than I've had in say, '11-'16. I know I haven't produced as much as I would like this year, especially in July. I've had so much secular stuff come up, my head is spinning. But reality is, I barely have enough time to keep up with the logs.
mod6: It seems like Mr. Popescu feels the same way. That I should be drummed out. We've known each other (all of us) for quite some time now. And I don't want to be a "problem" or "idjit" or whatever. Mainly, I don't want to force you all to kick me out. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-08-01 12:41 lobbes: mp_en_viaje: re: lobbesbot. The heathen VPS it is hosted on is migrating their servers. Hopefully will be back online in 24 hours (I didn't want 100% of my stuff on Pizarro; potential central point of failure and all)
asciilifeform: the only conceivable reason why httpism lived (for 3!! fucking decades) is cowardice. 'oh noez, couldn't tell reader to install sane browser, MUST compat with internet-exploder' etc
asciilifeform: strictly speaking , udpistic page server doesn't even require gossipism. but ideally yes.
mp_en_viaje: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-08-01#1925939 << this is incidentally a very good point i would much regret being lost. webpages wouldn't suffer from this "coinverges -- eventually" behaviour ☝︎
mp_en_viaje: anyway, i'm not proposing any hangings today ; but we also can't just completely ignore this ridiculousness wtf.
mp_en_viaje: i don't specifically care re the culprint ; but i do not see the wisdom of having a lisp server if it looks like that. for one thing, if you just make it honest c more people can be found to debug it.
asciilifeform: you can't actually write a tcpistic http serv thing that doesn't end up looking exactly like this, or worse.
mp_en_viaje: in other scandal, by the time i hit "[wafs] wake-acceptor-for-shutdown" in spyked 's story i'm so fucking pissed off i can't even continue reading.
shrysr: asciilifeform: ok, will check and revert. but damnnnnnn its working somewhere..rofl. Its such a cool thing and I don't know why its not standard.
shrysr: mp_en_viaje: just tried on a 'fresh' chrome installation.. still don't see it.
mp_en_viaje: shrysr, nfi why it doesn't work on your machine. indeed the solution should be browser independent. maybe they broke the spec ?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ( what does beggar do if 'not meet goal' ?? on street corner, he could walk to new corner. but what's the 'patreon' equiv ?? ) << Actual pichis pointedly can't walk to any other corner as they wish because bum fights
asciilifeform: fuckers who designed the L3 shit and the ones who specced the L4 shit didn't add enough, here come the L7 idiots who, not being satisfied with a "file transfer protocol" decide to "support" file transfers over HTTP; and since files may be as large as, say, 1TB, then yes, splitting them into small chunks is very much preferable to sending the whole thing right away.'
asciilifeform: 'Now, as if this wasn't enough, TCP also has a (transport layer) segment size, which must fit into a so-called "Maximum Segment Size" (MSS), which must be smaller than the MTU, because we also need to fit lower-layer headers and all that. Otherwise TCP isn't concerned too much with this, but misconfiguration can cause problems with congestion windows and whatnot, and we sure as hell don't want this shit to blow up. Finally, as if the
asciilifeform: as if the ludicrous cpu & bw waste of tcp weren't enuff, it also conveniently groups (with said grouping being entirely plaintext) 'sessions' for hitler to moar conveniently store & read.
a111: Logged on 2019-02-12 23:49 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thinking about it -- 'zxc' strikes me as a classic case of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-25#1866191 and impedence mismatch generally. it was clearly written as attempt to 'deterministic scheduler on ??? iron/os', but fails, cuz you can't actually spackle away impedence mismatch b/w the underlying platform and the proggy
asciilifeform: 'acceptors', 'persistent connections', various streamisms, 'listeners', and other 'i can't believe it's not serialport!111' horros