log☇︎
322900+ entries in 0.199s
mircea_popescu: dandians, duzians, twas a thing.
mircea_popescu: speaking of ancient arcana - who even noticed that the soviet ideas of central planning are a direct calc copy off the way turkish empire ran ?
thestringpuller: well i was more under the assumption philosopher stone of AI (a sorta Star Trek TNG "Data") doesn't currently have a means of existing
asciilifeform: it certainly added up to a coherent whole, at least once you cut away the obscurantist armour.
asciilifeform: or does mircea_popescu read it to learn how to actually produce philosopher's stone.
mircea_popescu: i thought it revolved around understanding.
mircea_popescu: traditionally, lavoisier, i suppose. but mind that many people understood what you call chemistry long before the 1600s, and similarly an interest in alchemy survived long after.
thestringpuller: since not being a chemist that is a blurry line
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i would defer that question to PeterL
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller who in your view made the switch between the two ?
mircea_popescu: anyway - i welcome the antivirus-based new gestapo. it will doubtlessly work as well as the new us model army, seen at the muchly trumpeted, quickly forgotten tikrit offensive.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: the current crud exists just as alchemy once existed, you expect alchemist to understand modern chemistry?
mircea_popescu: let the beluga take its unfortunate form emergently to mr doctor X, so as to receive bookend implants.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: pointedly an example of the ~current~ crud
mircea_popescu: working by analogy with the fruits in the marketr stall, or perhaps even herself and her sisters, her ladyship figured such : what is good is tough and rocky, what's overripe, soft, unrestrained in the belts of rubbery skin is obviously iunferior.
mircea_popescu: specifically, that these black roe, large and soft as were put before her, are evidently inferior to true black roe, as she always gets at [we're skipping this, lest we shame the third party]. which are small, much, much smaller, needle sized, and tough, so you can crack them in your teeth.
mircea_popescu: a young consumation girl [ie, whore], otherwise clever and vivacious, receiving some caviar aside the mug of vodka, proceeded to explain some matters t ome.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: perhaps different outlook, knowing you can't emulate human mind on current machines. perhaps the only way to "true AI" is some cyborg thing of a brain plugged up to machinery...
mircea_popescu: in translation :
assbot: Caviarul si fata on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TLJTnM )
mircea_popescu: actually, my favourite quote for that,
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> i will call this - ersatz cognition << the problem being that, much like in the case of blub, ersatz cognition can only be recognized by people not blessed with it.
asciilifeform: and is in fact just what the doctor ordered.
asciilifeform: for this, the 'artificial A-student' suffices.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the root of the matter is an elementary thing. google et al are deeply disinterested in cognition etc. but are paid for specific thing - solving the problem of usg needing an automated gestapo.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> but the other kind. << there's a deep reason the bayesian religion is widely appealing.
deedbot-: [Trilema] Give computers the vote. They're cheaper than women, even! - http://trilema.com/2016/give-computers-the-vote-theyre-cheaper-than-women-even/ ☟︎
mircea_popescu: nah. much older, was in a tail end of a discussion of art iirc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412496 << might be the thread you wanted ? ☝︎
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo it sorta ended a larger piece, ima trilema. << cool
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> i didn't really design that. was just the default theme for the latest wordpress << Fing and play with toolbox, and by play with I mean delete shit and make it more minimalist. Do leave the screenreader stuff in and if possibru improve it.
asciilifeform: hey the p in pm is fictional
assbot: The GUI, the twerk and the most valuable resource on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QDMaNV )
asciilifeform: and hm, i think it actually got trilemaized
mircea_popescu: how about the other one! that's what i really am after.
asciilifeform: i can post the fragment if you like.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> looks like he's throwing the match ? << Possibru? COunting on people not knowing Go?
asciilifeform: hm was assbot dead that day
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it sorta ended a larger piece, ima trilema.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo this prolly shoujld be qntra << If someone know something at all about Go, I know jack shit.
assbot: 0 results for 'from:mircea_popescu point truffle' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+point+truffle
asciilifeform: !s from:mircea_popescu point truffle
assbot: 0 results for 'from:mircea_popescu dog truffle' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+dog+truffle
asciilifeform: !s from:mircea_popescu dog truffle
mircea_popescu: fucking dogs do it, some of them at least, as per that experiment discussed in the logs.
mircea_popescu: trinque> it also seems to suggest that mind-amplification << mind amplification is really an everyday thing. that's what b-a does, and before b-a that's what the internet tried, and before that books, and so on.
mircea_popescu: the one with the army which, going through a field, encounters the same problems all the previous ones did.
mircea_popescu: do you happen to remember the piece i'm looking for ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> but the other kind. << im actually writing about this.
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2016 01:31:16; mircea_popescu: "if thge best you can come up with is otp - give me back the cpu and take this mechanical gearbox instead"
asciilifeform: see also old thread on otp, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-02-2016#1394784 ☝︎
asciilifeform: 'what, pray tell, was the in-between for ?' (tm) (r) ☟︎
asciilifeform: this puts us at approx. ancient greek state of the art.
trinque: this is what I'm aiming to say, that my friend has said he knows very little about *how* the brain forms a picture, only that it will (waves hands) learn to when given input representing one
asciilifeform: because all of the idiot grind ai teaches us NOTHING about thought.
asciilifeform: trinque: exactly not, though
asciilifeform: (for those who do not - eventually it became 'a sense', and when the thing fell out he was quite distressed and felt blinded)
trinque: it also seems to suggest that mind-amplification is a much nearer goal than AI, as the brain's own ability to handle new inputs can be leaned upon
trinque: as it might be drastically different from noggin to noggin
trinque: the above doesn't seem to bode well for having a model of cognition any time soon
asciilifeform: trinque: do you recall the article where some fella implanted a small magnet into his finger ?
trinque: this leads to being able to wire visual inputs into the tongue, and having the brain eventually learn to make a picture from this ☟︎
trinque: it learns how to over time
trinque: I have a friend in prosthetics who once explained at length to me that the brain doesn't begin knowing how to see, smell, etc ☟︎
nubbins`: e.g. take twin brains, copy "save-state" from one to other; madness, frothing mouth.
nubbins`: this is a terrifyingly accurate representation of meat-based life, i fear
nubbins`: leading to gibberish circuits, relying on physical imperfections in resonance of container, etc
asciilifeform: which quit working when moved to another room.
nubbins`: reminiscent of the bank of FPGAs learning to distinguish audio tones
asciilifeform: apologies for the l0g n0i53.
asciilifeform: l0l looks like i transmitted everything twice ☟︎
asciilifeform: damn what is happening to my terminal
asciilifeform: is bulldozer better than man with shovel ?
thestringpuller: because I doubt current humans can make computer better than brain.
asciilifeform: because, to heathens, it is often indistinguishable from the real thing, like the ersatz foods, plastic cars, and other detritus of modernity
thestringpuller: until you create some kinda hardware mechanism that is true to "real thing"
asciilifeform: because, to heathens, it is often indistinguishable from the real thing, like the ersatz foods, plastic cars, and other detritus of modernity
thestringpuller: I really don't think you can actually decipher the nature of 'real thought' on current hardware. AI will always be an emulation of the authentic thing.
asciilifeform: i will call this - ersatz cognition
assbot: Logged on 26-01-2016 17:20:06; ascii_butugychag: (there was a spiffy talk at shmoo, which mentioned how nn used in image recognition usually imprints on what - to a human - would be an entirely accidental cluster of pixels, and if you flip'em, it will recognize an obvious, e.g,. cat, as a refrigerator, etc)
asciilifeform: so you get a box that sorta, most of the time, does X, but 1) sometimes fails spectacularly for no apparent reason, as if 'alive' and 2) teaches the builder ~absolutely nothing~ useful about X
asciilifeform: i.e. attempting to get to the bottom of what thought process ~is~, in a meaningful way
asciilifeform: one, typified by d. lenat's proggy 'eurisko' (see logs, i posted his s333kr1t paperz once) was of the sane sort
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: there were once two schools of thought re: how to do 'ai' ☟︎
thestringpuller: you could have sentient bot talk to you and you'd still slap it around I suppose
asciilifeform: and was just as true
asciilifeform: but the other kind.
asciilifeform: consider, the bot was not the product of the 'knowing wtf you're doing' school of ai (which is long dead)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the sad part is not even the 'destruction of go' -- but the new lease on life for the vc circus
mircea_popescu: i suppose before i'm dead my life will consist of mostly wasting my time trying to find errant bits of log.
mircea_popescu: well this is sad, i can't fucking find it, half hour later.
mircea_popescu: was re the resistance of the medium etc
mircea_popescu: hmm, anyone recall the place in the log of that discussion of the nth army going through the same field, and seeing the same bridgeheads and valleys and whatnot ?
danielpbarron: yeah there's defo changes to be made
thestringpuller: you can probably make the theme look like files tho
danielpbarron: and now that i've got wordpress running, I kinda like how easy it is to draft stuff
danielpbarron: i seriously considered the all txt files option, but figured it wouldn't work well with allowing comments
thestringpuller: and the dpb ascii art
thestringpuller: i was talking about your original website. the <pre> tags and ascii text and links
danielpbarron: i didn't really design that. was just the default theme for the latest wordpress