log☇︎
32700+ entries in 0.269s
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nevertheless, consider : when the ~only~ possible use of x11 comes to fore, which is to say, playing a video game, all EVERYONE can think of is "how do i makew this a texrt client"
asciilifeform: i fully expect that linus will eventually sell 'his brand' so craig wright or whoever can make an Official 'linuxcoin' or whatever garbage.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 00:11 asciilifeform: i always thought this was one of the spiffiest things re the smbx boxes
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 04:57 asciilifeform: well, on classical x11 i have, e.g., machine that runs, say, 20 gui proggies, and each one 1) is on an entirely different machine, somewhere else, some of them not even on same continent 2) behaves EXACTLY as if it were running locally, window reshapes, etc 3) none have any shared state with the others, each sees local disk only of own local machine etc
mircea_popescu: maybe i really don't want to look at it as a succession of numbers. why, because i'm such a troglodyte ?
ben_vulpes: i don't really see the point to importing rounded corners into republican tooling
ben_vulpes: worth more to inca than us i suspect.
ben_vulpes: i'm amenable to dom as presentation model, but abhor the browser scripting language and the cpp hydras that render the html/css/jsoup. that said if we cut "teh modern webb!" off entirely, i'll hafta bifurcate my workbench.
ben_vulpes: implementing the DOM and all of the california complexity doesn't mesh neatly with the text rendering already extant. i use emacs as wm around browser and some other things (not many other things, really, but 'modern' dom-o-tron is sadly yet central to $work), for the expediency of my workbench having a single scriptinglang to move windows around, split whole monitor and arrange for specific workflows...
mircea_popescu: best definition of what a cult is, incidentally. "why was this cut there specifically ?" "i dunno." that's it, that's a cult. can't answer as to why was something cut where it was.
mircea_popescu: understand, i'm not proposing the one tru way here. but i do want to know why the cuts are made, if made. because otherwise wtf.
mircea_popescu: if emacs is the wm, then it'd better a) rid me of browser and b) be capable of previewing for me the graph / naked slut / we i'm about to put on trilema, both BEFORE uploading and as part of the final page preview.
mircea_popescu: i would very much support a lot of emacs effort if it gets one rid of having to ~also~ support x11 ; and vice-versa. for instance.
mircea_popescu: as far as i can tell, we've not yet said "emacs is really not the name we give the tmsr-os"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect it might be more than "an infinite loop in sbcl, to not hose emacs" ; for instance, it might include & behaviour.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 18:52 mircea_popescu can definitely see the "i do not expect my terminal to do background tasks, that's what the servers are for. i don't have separable pairs of eyes"
phf: asciilifeform: back then i had slightly different concerns, nor did i build anything that wasn't already built. the whole thing compiles with djgpp, clisp is also available. bulk of the code i wrote was either common lisp by way of clisp or allegro "games" and visual hacks and such
asciilifeform: phf: now i'm curious, what you build on that dos ( i.e. do you have gnat for dos built ?! major asciilifeform-wishlist item )
phf: i've used emacs under dos for almost a year..
asciilifeform: trinque: believe or not, at one time i had a patched msdos to do 120 column txtmode
trinque: possible I'd be entirely comfortable most days in a DOS + emacs, provided the term was big enough
mircea_popescu can definitely see the "i do not expect my terminal to do background tasks, that's what the servers are for. i don't have separable pairs of eyes" ☟︎
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i also use it as wm; will endure the occasional freeze-ups because if emacs has died well then the whole machine's utility to me has gone to epsilon anyways
mircea_popescu: i can definitely see that.
asciilifeform: if it dun cost much i'd surely like to retain orc glyphs.
asciilifeform: ( tho i can picture a hypothetical commonlisp-emacs that doesn't ever need to socket , because has compiler inside, like ye olde borland )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform except for the part where i keep putting uniturds in all the time, persian, chinese, whatever.
asciilifeform: phf: i dun think anybody will cry if we lose ssl. uniturds is tricker matter, e.g. asciilifeform routinely edits proggies with uniturds in'em , in ru, cn, etc, and they gotta at least display ( i'd be ok to swear off ~input~ of uniturds ) . socket of some form is prolly a must, to have either slime or anything like a replacement for it
mircea_popescu: i have great faith you see what i mean.
phf: 19 is '98 technology, missing unicode, definitely missing ssl, i'm not sure how much networking code is there, etc. etc.
phf: mircea_popescu: see if i think that version secretly reveals how how many of the comforts of "modern" emacs we want to sacrifice, and likewise nails down the wants
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't even care so much about that, because of the well ilustrated, here and everywhere else, history of idiots involvement.
asciilifeform: i.e. what exactly changed b/w 19 and 24 ?
phf: well, i was hoping this conversation will steer towards which version we should go with. i'd love to try bringing 19 up to date, but i'm afraid the result of that effort will be that asciilifeform and trinque will just keep using own version on workshop. further into future we move, the gnarlier the code gets (i think i pasted 10x size increases with every new emacs release)
mircea_popescu: ftr, i don't believe this "save object code" thing is handled correctly.
phf: asciilifeform: well, it's been ported, but i've no idea how, last time i looked at it was pre-rework and i couldn't figure it out. trinque just said that the musl version of emacs he has is 24.5, so presumably that works ☟︎
phf: at some point the implementation was reworked, i was certain that was 25, but trinque just said that he has a 24 version
phf: yeah, i'm slow right now, but i'll get there
mircea_popescu: yes but be specific! he asks how, i ask which, same deal.
trinque: this is why I don't intend to put emacs into the genesis
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'd have tyhought so!
mircea_popescu: trinque aha. something along the lines of http://trilema.com/2013/squares-do-morals-a-porno/#selection-519.0-519.243 i always figured (which, oddly enough, is not in logotron!)
phf: mircea_popescu: i get it, i'm being sloppy because i want it to be obvious that the box is indeed pandora's box
trinque: this is I'm sure why gabriel_laddel got some attention for a wbit
mircea_popescu: phf i have nfi what you're doing. this is what this opening of the pandora box is all about, trying to grok it once.
phf: well in my case btcbase is written in common lisp, so slime, unless i also rewrite btcbase in elisp
mircea_popescu: should i have asked "why elisp when slime" ?
phf: e.g. i'm using 22 for work, and in order to get slime working on it, i had to revert slime to some 2010 version, which in turn wasn't quite compatible with sbcl, etc. etc.
asciilifeform: phf: i don't have ~that~ many elisps that'd need repair.
mircea_popescu: trinque so putatively, if i wish to tell someone some choice bits about his mother's sexual preferences in russian, i must first map A to A ?
trinque: I'm proposing the right design is that in installing any module for the editor, you must as a matter of protocol attach its functionality to your keyboard in order to use
mircea_popescu: trinque i confess i'm lost in metaphore. how do you map "i dunno how the fuck you close this damned thing" operator situation to it ?
trinque: nah, it means I can speak any language I want to my girl, and she still knows how to take the mail from the courier
trinque: mircea_popescu: because I don't want to discuss with anyone how my own private desk is arranged
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: emacs is a 'modal' system, i.e. every programming language gets a mode, implemented as a set of elisp proggies, that completely changes the behaviour of the editor to (ideally) make it entirely suited to writing that particular form of text
mircea_popescu: as it stands right now, i truly can't grok the fundamental difference between the behaviour you describe and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814985 ☝︎
mircea_popescu: phf and i'm a troglodyte for thinking this isn't right ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826979 << phf i for one would not be opposed to 'rewind to 19 and patch as-needed', like we did with trb. ☝︎
asciilifeform: i jump because it became clear that he stabbed himself on such a nail and ran off screaming
trinque: eh, sometimes you q, sometimes c-g, other times ..., I get it
asciilifeform: jurov: of all the sharp edges emacs indubitably has -- i have yet to witness this one.
jurov: pls don't ask me anything about emacs. i use (neo)vim. tried several times to use emacs and gave up in anger - for example, there isn't even universal keystroke to change between windows/close a window.
mircea_popescu: because yes, the exact sort of objection (we're only counting the cogent ones, washed out of 10bn words of idiocy outside the gates) brought against emacs can (and was) brought against desk by orcs. "o, by the time you're done moving it around the meadow the boar long left" "what boar ?" "the one you were going to shoot inkwell at, silly." "oh i c"
trinque: I would stand by the claim that emacs *can* be a time-sink, just as moving your desk around the office each day can, but it doesn't have to be, and isn't inherent in the tool
trinque: I don't venture too far down the tree of possible customizations beyond assemble workbench, make tools readytohand, start working
trinque: iirc I ran 24 for a while, am on 25 atm, but am not vouching for that version.
trinque: didn't take that long to get to the point where I can throw tiled window arrangements on screen with a few keyboard twitches
asciilifeform: in heathendom it is always either 'eh gnarly pos who needed it ever' or 'hands off my sacred animal, i'll shoot' ☟︎
mircea_popescu: i was counting the "experts" outside of here. those things that exist, you know.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, but you idiots being what you are i can't discern if it's "backwards pistol is every grenadier's problem because it fires backwards" or "bayonett is every recruit's problem b ecause attempts to sit on it".
phf: mircea_popescu: i'm thinking, i'm not opposed to the idea, but i was also the person saying in logs that emacs is harmful and should be abandoned altogether. i can bring together whatever's asciilifeform and trinque are using for their workshops, and adopt it for myself also..
trinque: mircea_popescu: I do indeed
asciilifeform: trinque: 'which emacs?' prolly deserves a thread. lessee what phf says, i bet he has an earlier one than mine
douchebag: in the event I don't find any vulnerabilities that week
douchebag: However, I still want a garunteed source of income
douchebag: I made $300 today doing it
asciilifeform: douchebag: when you walked in, were all 'i'm making bank pentesting' etc. what happened to that.
ben_vulpes: douchebag: i thought handing vulns over to sv corp responsible dicksucksure departments was a sure path to riches
asciilifeform: douchebag: i suffered from same thing for many yrs; go and find a slightly less all-consuming gulag
douchebag: asciilifeform: I barely have any free time to do anything because of my job.
douchebag: The problem is, I have a lot of things going on in my life and I need a source of income. I don't have time to work on projects right now without ending up homeless.
asciilifeform: trinque: ( need a vintage snapshot ? i can supply. or for that matter phf has one. take yer pick )
douchebag: I'm more than capable of programming/building/writing/ect...
mircea_popescu: because i kept going from double take to double take, "seriously, someone uses google drive ?!" then "wait, system what ?!"
asciilifeform: recall how he walked in, 'i'ma break all yer shit'
asciilifeform: douchebag: fwiw i dun get paid in anyffing edible, i work with mircea_popescu out of principle. ditto, for the most part, the other folx here.
douchebag: I offered to work for free with the promise of payment of the job successfully completed.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i buy it
douchebag: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-17#1826221 << I wanted clarification on the conversation that lead to this ☝︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they had an ok time for a spell, with unofficial cartel ( jd from nomenklatura schools, e.g. harvard, were auto-employed ) but as i understand this train has left
douchebag: In regards to your last question, I'm willing to work - however, I'm not going to spend my time working without any sort of compensation.
asciilifeform: ( i dun particularly care either way, douchebag , you're his student, not mine )
asciilifeform: douchebag: better be quick about it, i expect mircea_popescu will pull the lever when he comes back from tea-and-chix or wherever
douchebag: I'm looking through the logs right now to find exactly what was unclear to me.
douchebag: I just wanted clarification about the discussions that had taken place, that is all.
asciilifeform: douchebag: as i understand you dun have long at the microphone; care to say something pithy ?
douchebag: In regards to hanbot and mircea_popescu negrating me, I did read the logs and wanted clarification about the discussions that took place which lead to mircea_popescu negrating me.
asciilifeform: 'i saw on tv'
asciilifeform: 'erryone hates it, all the lifts smell of piss. oh btw, where is the lift here, i gotta go' ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-08 01:43 douchebag: If I need to print off these flier, if I include the reciept of the printed fliers will you remburse them ?