log☇︎
32600+ entries in 0.408s
asciilifeform: FundsAreSafuh: you won't win much from plain lurking, i recommend to read the logs, http://btcbase.org/log/
FundsAreSafuh: I'm back for old times sake
FundsAreSafuh: I used to lurk here quite often back in the 2014-2015 days, back then I used to be mentioned on the channel for some of my BitcoinTalk antics
asciilifeform: FundsAreSafuh: can i presume you read the logs ?
ave1: I used to program in Smalltalk for work, was a lot of fun.
ave1: I'm currently on vim again with a lot of work done on in bash.
ave1: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826916, I don't use emacs. I've tried it on an off and after reading the logs I'm sure I do not want to get "locked in" to it. ☝︎
lobbes: speaking of, trinque could I get http://blog.lobbesblog.com/feed/ added to blogroll? ☟︎
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/so-im-having-a-cup-of-coffee/ << Trilema - So I'm having a cup of coffee...
mod6: i like the emacs/x11 thread
mircea_popescu: honestly i like rail just fine, but we were for some reason discussing provenance.
phf: honestly half of the ones i saw, from a totally different range of companies, look familiar, but i suspect that at least moscovites got the ussr version, probably something like this http://scaletrainsclub.com/portal/images/portal_files/vasily/istoriya_proizvodstva/ov_05.jpg
mircea_popescu: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/vCVSFfWfOEo/maxresdefault.jpg etc
mircea_popescu: phf https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DnUWFFS_zBs/maxresdefault.jpg << this looks very right re rails. which is why i thought marklin
mircea_popescu: i recall TT branding, but that's just generic size indication
phf: but if i had to guess from picture there's two straights at the end and three curves in the middle
phf: yeah, i'm pretty sure they've not even made flexible ones until quite recently
mircea_popescu: mine were definitely rigid. pre-curved elements. had to mix and match, i had a ballot of them
phf: i found märklin first when searching, but it's not gdr
phf: i think maybe even same GDR brand "liliput"
phf: huh i don't remember that style at all. looks like metal too, the ones that i had were plastic, kind of like https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/L350032-LN_3314489_Qty1_1.jpg
mircea_popescu: yeah sounds like same. though i thought mine was from teh ddr.
asciilifeform: aha i think we had same item
mircea_popescu: i didn't have incline ramps in mine. but yes, these existed
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: don't tell the inca but i fly
mircea_popescu: phf i had one of those too.
ben_vulpes: "flies" is a bit strong; i like big kinetic-energy toys and have friends with them.
ben_vulpes: and this is why i still don't have many male friends "we're going to go fly quadcopters!" "...why don't we drive out to the hangar and take the plane out instead?"
phf: well shit buy him a squirrel suit then i dunno
ben_vulpes: i eventually learned that unless i can feel the gs in the seat of my pants i have trouble giving much of a fuck
phf: but yeah, there was a shortage of age appropriate games in russia. parents would keep you from breaking something by basically going "if you break it, i'll give you away to mr. policeman" and such.
asciilifeform: oh hey i had phf 's train. aaand the... abusable.. transformer, of course
ben_vulpes: phf: i had a set quite like that as well, but never got into it. "so, it goes around? and if you go too fast, it pops off the track?" brio also more for the 2-5 set
phf: i guess this was also popular in u.s., because i'd see it in movies and such, and presumably original mit hackers were model train fans, but i take it it's not really a 80s-90s kids thing..
ben_vulpes: i have a stack of blank index cards upon which i write or draw whatever thing i feel like training the kid on at any given moment. "memory" games with shapes and letters and numbers, the alphabet and numbers, just starting in on word shapes. beyond that, no blinkenlichten, no plastics, a commitment to correcting diction and grammar all day and i'm pretty sure one's into diminishing returns after that
phf: i think the causation is backwards, egan chooses substrate, assumes consciousness can exist on that substrate, then explores properties of substrate. doesn't say anything interesting about consciousness, but exploration of substrate. since naive mechanistic cellular machine interpretations are in vogue, that's the substrate that egan works with.
asciilifeform: esthlos: i do not know whether egan knows this, but buncha doped californirasts took his 'software souls' thing and turned it into a religion, of sorts
esthlos: but then what _is_ the cpu state but an arrangement of electrons? and why can't I say "these electrons on my butt are cpu state 53, those on alpha centauri are cpu state 54..."
phf: i think it's like transhumanist porn, the idea that consciousness will preserve its form on whatever substrate, so with some Quantum Physics we can have "humans" operating at subatomic levels by being there.
mircea_popescu: esthlos i dunno what it means tho. how do you mean, consciousness jumping ?
esthlos: mircea_popescu: I have not. gotta add it to the list
phf: i've accidentally read greg egan's quarantine, followed by schild's ladder, i take it once you read one of his novels you've read all of them, unless i choose a particularly similar narratives
mircea_popescu: "if i had a ring whereby i'd fuck women by myself..."
asciilifeform: esthlos: fwiw i read it, pretty lulzy 'magic sword' trope.
asciilifeform: phf: picture if it had been buildable then. then alankay could be sad and go to the bottle 40 yrs earlier, because 'this is not what i wanted, ended up ipad'
phf: esthlos: i don't think that's the case, squeak was his main apple project, but even going before than dynabook was already in the works at parc
Mocky: oh man dr dobbs, haven't seen that in ages. I used to get the dead tree version
esthlos: phf: I think he wanted to build something for adults, but his work at apple disillusioned him, american adults too retarded for multiple desktops etc. so then yeah, pedo phase
mircea_popescu: i knew plenty of such idiots.
phf: mircea_popescu: i don't know if there's a definition, "idea" would've been a better term. in any case i've never heard anything concrete, except for the papert/piaget/montessori like esthlos said statements.
mircea_popescu: i missed this definition ?
phf: alan kay's fixation on children though always confused me, and i think was the undoing of most of his children. like his definition of what children want or like is that of a person profoundly out of touch.
mircea_popescu: i can;t fucking believe english doesn't have an equivalent for "hangman's face"
esthlos: phf: you know, about a year ago I wrote Alan Kay asking wtf happened to computing since the days of darpa and xerox parc. his response was "funding now sux"
asciilifeform: esthlos: i visited my local one, it is of that type.
mircea_popescu: i like the arrangement.
esthlos: asciilifeform: my understanding is that most unis used to have chip fab facilities much like machining facilities, and profs would regularly build iron. did something make the cost skyrocket? (maybe in logz: I will read)
mircea_popescu: i hadn't even realised this before.
ben_vulpes: well hey i biked through from time to time
mircea_popescu: come to think about it... i don't know of a single case of girl laying a... student.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i doubt there's what knows how to use a slut on that campus
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i dunno about that, man. from the slut's angle, there's a lot of plain fucking going about.
ben_vulpes: esthlos: ah, once a classy joint i hear. since then, well, epicenter of "i don't date nazis" nonsense
asciilifeform: esthlos: i recommend to read whole set of search output earlier, as part of your log eating , there was even an instance where asciilifeform went and got actual quotes from small fab houses
esthlos: asciilifeform: that's what I suspected. most of those transistors wasted by modern kernel anyway
esthlos: asciilifeform: I've heard stories from someone who works the floor of an Intel plant in Oregon. seems like a very costly operation for those low-nm processors
Mocky: like running any named command with M-x, why can't i do that in my browser, or cad program or whaterver
a111: Logged on 2018-06-19 17:21 asciilifeform: in heathendom it is always either 'eh gnarly pos who needed it ever' or 'hands off my sacred animal, i'll shoot'
Mocky: emacs. which to me explains org mode and emails and browser in emacs, and i suppose the emacs+ratpoison. but in any case a lot of that useful shit dun belong stuck inside an editor
Mocky: revisiting emacs: the problem for me, and the reason i quit it after ~1 year is that the cut between editor / os / keyboard was so obviously wrong. once you get comfortable with the useful stuff in there it sucks that you then can *only* use it in emacs. what, i can't have a decent editor for anything outside of emacs? most of the answers to that question are either a) fuck emacs or b) fuck everything outside of
mircea_popescu: i always suspected su never got enough foreign made to end up with the conventions.
mircea_popescu: i toldja, soviet capacitors :D
mircea_popescu: i expect.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pretty sure baneasa made them ; but stopped ccaq 1988 and i doubt any crates survive untouched
asciilifeform: btw i still haven't tracked down a ro-made z80, most of my collection is from ddr
mircea_popescu: but tbh i suspect bulk of them were after 1990.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aa makes sense. i assumed you were speaking of clones -- orig. 16f never made it as far east as my orcistan
mircea_popescu: well yes, i thought it's what we were disucssing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ( and lulzily i had the very same serialport programmator described in your link )
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826971 << this is what i've adopted ☝︎
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-19#1826916 << I try to do everything I can in emacs, it being the "retarded cousin" lisp machine emulator for C machines. even used exwm for a while. ☝︎
asciilifeform: cuz in ye olde su the closest thing , afaik, were straight clones of i8051 , with eprom , i.e. the glass windows
asciilifeform: with moar, and better-polished routines published for maths, i/o, whatever, than for just about any pc thing
asciilifeform: the fabric makes trooly sane design of os, editor, i/o, ~impossible
mircea_popescu: i do not dispute that part.
asciilifeform: the i/o device consisted of, what, 40 buttons and a 7-digit vacuum flask display.
mircea_popescu: when i was 16, my informatics teacher in the informatics lab told the kids upset at being stuck with the 286s (there were like half a dozen 386s too) that "if you ever get to where you mastered THAT cpu, you'll be way ahead of anything they teach in college anyway".
asciilifeform: re 'manifest matter at will' : in early 2000s asciilifeform grasped the mega-problem , that programming ain't actually hard, except for stripping away the monkey shit produced by 50 yrs of monkey. 'i want a sane emacs' turned into 'sane prog lang' and quickly 'sane os' then 'sane iron' , and afaik this actually the inevitable correct cut, rather than caprice
asciilifeform: ( 'you wouldn't download mercedes!' -- idjit usg copyrasty poster ; 'i would if i could, motherfuckers' ( answer ) )
mircea_popescu: i will download a luxury liner.
mircea_popescu: i still gota plot < if i wanna see the graph of a csv. that's floating in lalaland.
mircea_popescu: but in any case, the reasoning "a. i have here toe of mummified saint justinian ; b. saint justinian once saved people from drowning ; ergo c. drowning is solved problem in my case" is batshit.
mircea_popescu: so to sum up this -- i have no dispute that everyone uses shards, bits and pieces hammered off named items, and pretends they're using the named items, "i use x11 in this so and so sense" "i use browser all day -- except not in any sense browser, of course" and so on.
mircea_popescu: because in all honestly, i wouldn't even ~deign~ rto look upon the shit that's dailymail other than through n layers of awk. i don't CARE whjat they think they're saying asnymore than i care what the fetwhores think they're saying.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform point is, if i am using emacs wm, WHY should i kludge everything. and if kludge is the way of the land, why do we give a shit about emacs.
mircea_popescu: THIS is what i fucking mean re views. if i wanna see my data as a graph it'd be useful if it were right there in the editor, and if i wanna see websites it'd better also.
asciilifeform: dunno, i have graphical e.g. logic analyzer, happily purring along via x11 pipes.
mircea_popescu: i ~should~ be able to enforce memory limits per branch, not fucking "nobody knows why firefox runs out of memory, but it has been leaking for 10 years straight now"
mircea_popescu: and moreover, why shouldn'\t i be able to see the dom tree and permit/disallow certain branches from running ?
asciilifeform: dunno about other folx, but i use it -- in the sense described in linked threads -- ~all day, erryday.