log☇︎
318400+ entries in 0.203s
asciilifeform: in particular, i believe that satoshi's turd is an abomination and is barely fit for any use at all, and ought to be discarded as soon as a politically reliable alternative exists - but there is no way to infer this from what patches i have signed. ☟︎
asciilifeform: this has been itching in my head ever since the 'manual gardening' and 'regrind' thread
asciilifeform: the problem i was trying to solve is that it remains painfully underspecified exactly ~what is communicated by the act of sealing~
asciilifeform: and 'mechanizing that which must remain human'
asciilifeform: my internal emulated mircea_popescu has actually convinced me that this whole thing is probably a nonstarter.
asciilifeform: but the gedankenexperiment of course offers no simple answer to this. just a possible component of one.
asciilifeform: but rather it is is more for scenarios that may arise in the dark future, when, say, it becomes necessary to purge material from a disgraced lord, and somehow not burn the world down in a chain reaction while so doing
assbot: Logged on 18-03-2016 18:56:27; PeterL: how would v resolve patches with both "trust" signature by one party and "distrust" from another party? I suppose that would be another knob to turn in v settings?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1436249 << this is not really intended to function on its own, beyond 'only press +trust-sealed patches' ☝︎
PeterL: how would v resolve patches with both "trust" signature by one party and "distrust" from another party? I suppose that would be another knob to turn in v settings? ☟︎
mod6: this seal vector thing is pretty cool.
trinque: Not only are there times when one would like to seal a payload with a caveat of one kind or another, but presently we have no means of conveying disapproval – other than by refraining from sealing. << check it out, a wrath bit
deedbot-: [Loper OS] Vectored Signatures, or the Elements of a Possible V-Algebra. - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545
deedbot-: [Loper OS] Yes, you can still get these. - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1539
deedbot-: [Loper OS] MPI sans the mud. - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1533
deedbot-: [Loper OS] The Phuctored and the Phucked - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1526
deedbot-: [Loper OS] Practical Blockchain Telegraphy. - http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1490
asciilifeform prepares a bucket for mircea_popescu to barf into after he reads the 'algebra' piece. ☟︎
kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435802 < generally in favour - perhaps the 'actual assets' need a more tight spec? ☝︎
assbot: Loper OS » Vectored Signatures, or the Elements of a Possible V-Algebra. ... ( http://bit.ly/1pQWk4X )
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1545
assbot: Logged on 18-03-2016 04:21:00; ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-03-2016#1432214 << mircea_popescu, kakobrekla: this was all very rude and uncalled for, my apologies
kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-03-2016#1435731 < not at all - i think there is some merit in the argument in the sense that bitbet will hardly survive the upset its going through now (which is actually devaluating the asset to be liquidated) ☝︎☟︎☟︎
phf: other signing method is a microdot pattern, you know, to cover all the bases ☟︎
phf: can then manually verify by doing hand rsa. primes and ciphertext are base 10 for human convenience
phf: seems like we just need different signing modes, one of them being, "usenet text" or somesuch, ignores repeat whitespace, only recognizes alphanum and top row symbols, signature in the form, "in the year of our republic such and such i honorable citizen with these two primes which are my identity and my blood indicate the validity of the above text, [primes] [signature ciphertext]"
mircea_popescu: the spanish say it's from taino.
asciilifeform: no potatl ?! the aztec nationalists lied !??!111
asciilifeform: and obviously not potato but mineral battery (which is supposed to have been found, in some suggestive fragment, according to aficionados)
asciilifeform: and the crackpot archaeological thing re gilding concerned egyptians, not persians
mircea_popescu: mno, the origins are batata and papa (still used as originally, to distinguish sweet and plain varieties, here)
asciilifeform: i thought this was known to all?
mircea_popescu: i guess i'm lucky to be in an engineering-internet. were i in a scholarly-internet it'd be all "mp, potato comes from new world therefore everything is invalid!"
mircea_popescu: i think they were gilding things with potatoes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc this is in herodotus?
mircea_popescu: "here's me exercycling to power my blog"
mircea_popescu: prolly instafamous on various social media turds, too.
asciilifeform: (anyone recall the ancient persian execution method, with fat wicks?!)
mircea_popescu: would make a pretty great blog topic, you know ? for the numerous bloggers among us constantly looking for stuff to feed the woodchipper with.
PeterL: use some exercicles to power it, for obeasts to put their fat to work?
mircea_popescu: i had but apparently lost a degree of magnitude on the way.
asciilifeform: measure it yerself, this is trivial
mircea_popescu: o then nm.
PeterL: how much power does pogo take?
mircea_popescu: what do the things actually draw, half a W or something ?
mircea_popescu: actually speaking of dc motors, i wonder if you could get a hamster to wheel-power a pogo.
mircea_popescu: but i had no idea that things could pop if you use parallel! or that you could possibly need a breaker! or things.
asciilifeform: in usa, typical residential mains socket (and its associated wire) is rated for 15a.
asciilifeform: (yes this does not help some folks...)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how many amps to put on a single breaker is typically not 'rocket surgery' and printed thereupon
mircea_popescu: seems pretty dangerous this could happen and also should not be possibru!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform speaking of plugging into mains, you know that if you bought a bunch of power strips and powered your entire house out of the same socket it'd eventually a) start a fire ; b) pop the fuse ; c) all of the above ?
BingoBoingo: Screw it, upregulates to 160A because it also has to kickstart the flywheel
mircea_popescu: anyway, methinks this horse is beaten through.
asciilifeform: what in this joke am in not grasping ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when you plug in one toaster into your mains, and then another, and then a third, how many times the current ?
mircea_popescu: don't tell me it upregulates to 3a i might fall over.
mircea_popescu: win. and if i add a third, what happens to the current ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: adds up to 1/2 ohm load res
mircea_popescu: tell me this : if you have two 1 ohm items in parallel, at 1 volt ea, what current flows through the main ??
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and you know this for a fact ? maybe the profusion is just because people like encapsulated things.
asciilifeform: one of the reason we have the profusion of bulky chinese wall warts, etc. is the extreme sensitivity of semiconductor to supply v
mircea_popescu: in parallel you're relying on same loads to regulate your... current.
mircea_popescu: you don't HAVE to be tho.
asciilifeform: where you are relying on adjacent loads in aggregate to actually regulate your v
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you are missing the key piece
mircea_popescu: to summarize said argument attempts : line 1. "high voltage is dangerous" "mkay, throw out your tv" ; line 2 : "you will have to protect the line" "yes you will" ; line 3 : "this was done historically" "yes it was".
mircea_popescu: uncharitably i might also observe that other than "i say so!" "it's how it's done" "reddit would agree", relatively little actual arguments were brought, which is why the task of poking fun was so easy/the experience so frustrating.
mircea_popescu: moderation in all things eh.
mircea_popescu: I'm not necessarily against taking mp's lines and looking in all the folds carefully ; but it's a little silly to do this run off with what i think an angle might have been, damn everything else.
mircea_popescu: llel of how mp said "^ for the record, i've been divesting, if slowly." and you spent two days going on about 0 value bitcoin, then the interval hence being butthurt that there's no 0 value bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> PeterL: he suggested (i still can't tell if seriously!) to plug them in ~series~ << no dude. he said "see if your isp is willing to give you a c block / upgrade your connection. buy a coupla bridges of 32 or 64, make a high voltage rectifier thingee, and power a bunch of boxes" then you went all crazy about how series omaygerd! and i spent the rest of the interval poking fun at it. this is an exact para
mircea_popescu: jurov> actually, that would neatly solve the mystery of cascading failure of his raid setup << fu georg!
mircea_popescu: PeterL> maybe it is just my lack of electrical engineering knowledge, but it sounds like mircea_popescu and asciilifeform are saying to do the same thing, but won't agree with each other? << you have nfi how often this happens.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> asciilifeform i think his plan to fight some derps doing black magic is not to squarely ignore them, but to DO THINGS to anti-magic their magic. << Oh it's not a plan. It's noise
jurov: but it's very likely that in absence of other opinions, dpb would actually try it
jurov: asciilifeform: still talked in hypotheticals, i have no indication that actually happened
BingoBoingo: <jurov> was a while to get used to it. i wonder how was BingoBoingo keeping track of his nickname when it was different every time << nicknames attach to bars. If bar isn't frequented enough "hey you" workz
jurov: no, he just asked the slaves to, like he hih do danielpbarron
asciilifeform: jurov: i can't really picture him wiring up drives with his own hands, tho
jurov: if he had the drives powered in that way
jurov: actually, that would neatly solve the mystery of cascading failure of his raid setup
asciilifeform: so as to avoid the need for a) dozens of 'wall warts' or b) a high current dc power supply.
asciilifeform: PeterL: he suggested (i still can't tell if seriously!) to plug them in ~series~, like christmas lights, to a high voltage line.
PeterL: maybe it is just my lack of electrical engineering knowledge, but it sounds like mircea_popescu and asciilifeform are saying to do the same thing, but won't agree with each other?
asciilifeform: i have a massive dc supply (of, believe or not, ~british!~ circa '70s make) at my house, for this purpose.
asciilifeform: even comes with thick cable.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a correct way to 'de-chink' the pogo power source might be, e.g., to connect them all - in parallel - to old soviet car battery charger.
mircea_popescu: decentralization being not the answer, but the problem, in many applications. as seen here.
assbot: Logged on 18-03-2016 14:34:24; mircea_popescu: lol davout while i'm the first friend of humor, or so i like to think, that two weeks tm can't stand there. it can readily be interpreted to mean forever, and that just can't be.
mircea_popescu: the ~only point i made prior to the whole "way things are done!11" explosion was, that for the price of buying extension cords for all the shitty little bricks he can make a central power source himself.
mircea_popescu: i guess he'll need to use thicker wires, but hey, if it'll make your impalement sense happy why not.
mircea_popescu: anyway, would it make you happier if he puts a transformer in between, takes it from 300 V 1 A to 4.5 V 60 A and then parallels that ?
asciilifeform: it coalesces into there being arts mircea_popescu is - apparently - innocent of
mircea_popescu: i've been trying to follow this with the huts etc but it doesn't coallesce into a something.
asciilifeform: take wire cutters, rip a diode bridge out of that argentinian shit pc from article, and have it..
asciilifeform: and there is no reason to take my word for it, go, try.
asciilifeform: well series circuit with loads that gotta get 5% of specced voltage is nutso.
asciilifeform: as in, 'your house is really same as my pile of straw, it must be, there is nothing else in the world'
asciilifeform: it was more interesting even, it was about how they do not even see it as a thing