286500+ entries in 0.167s
mircea_popescu: pre billy goates and his whiny self, people shared
tapes.
mircea_popescu: ftr
that was
the original, and working, shareware paradigm.
trinque: and
then people can check
the logs; maybe we signed a contract, maybe we just
talked about it
trinque: phf: I see software being "shared" in such a personal way
that you should expect me
to ask you directly whether I can give
to my L1, whether I can post sauce on www, so on
mircea_popescu has spent more
time
than he cares
to admit with crazy incomprehensible and perhaps fragmentary item. "what is it ?" "fuck me"
mircea_popescu: i dunno, meteorite fell from sky, seems
to work a certain way, gotta look what it does now.
phf: trinque: nah, not ~entire~ wot and not forever. but let's say i give you code under wotgpl, it means
that
the code has certain propagation properties within wot, and i don't have
to negrate you if you abide by a certain set of pre-discussed rules
mircea_popescu: (yes, we use constructive intent all
the
time, such as for instance in discussions of usg -
the sort of
thing where
they end up responsible both ways.)
trinque: suitable for some, but I'm not going
to sign it.
trinque: agreeing
to a specific set of behavior within a category *forever* is slavery.
mircea_popescu: you load crapolade websites all
the
time ; and pdf meets your attack criteria.
mircea_popescu: but point remains, binary is more insidious
than readily observed. you can't reduce
text
to "code" nor can you reduce binary
to "elf".
mircea_popescu: sure, i run coherence checks on all data, such as recent
trilema article is
testament.
mircea_popescu: unless you go out and do
the measurements yourself. by hand ?
mircea_popescu: besides
the point. it's a random byte field you didn't make, and can't verify.
trinque: phf: it's not WoT-tronic if I'm making decisions based on WoT and also
this overarching religion about software
phf: as a spec
to how a node within a wot graph is going
to operate by default in relation
to
text
phf: trinque:
that's not very interesting, you can rework gpl into wot graph quite
trivially
trinque: neither software nor more generally communication operates on a flat
topology; stallman's
trying
to cram communication into
that flatland
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform except i don't see anyone has an implicit freedom allowing him
to review other people's notes.
mircea_popescu: phf i don't
think stallman, for all his posturing, was muich in
the philosophy department. seriously, ima have a special right
to use code ?
tell you what - have
the inalienable freedom
to use weapons, in any manner i deem fit, such as against
the us president, and
to use
the penis, and plates of pasta, and napkin scribblings and anything else.
phf: i'm not so much interested in "freedom" aspect of it, but as a way
to construct a coherent position on
tmsr computing
phf: well, i'm
trying
to see if
this could use
this as a glue
to
tie V and stan's laws of sane computing
mircea_popescu: yeah,
that's more of a practical philosophy
thing, but i see what you mean.
a111: Logged on 2015-01-30 05:51 mircea_popescu: which is why i am not ever giving it up.
the freedom
to
threaten is not merely my fundamental, unassailable sovereign property, but moreover essential for
the construction of effectual instruments
to squash
the socialists and
their golums.
trinque: there are so many false political assumptions embedded in
them it's hard
to pick a starting place
☟︎ phf: -
The freedom
to distribute copies of your modified versions
to others (freedom 3). By doing
this you can give
the whole community a chance
to benefit from your changes. Access
to
the source code is a precondition for
this.
phf: -
The freedom
to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
phf: -
The freedom
to study how
the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1). Access
to
the source code is a precondition for
this.
phf: -
The freedom
to run
the program as you wish, for any purpose (freedom 0).
mircea_popescu: the cheapest forinstance : it's not even proper
to speak of "code" rather
than
text until and unless you've introduced a specific difference. which is a harder problem
than it appears. "obviously" is not an answer.
mircea_popescu: 1. "this is
the difference between" ; 2. "the fnargl is larger
than a butter" ; 3. "any elements larger
than
the elements smaller
than
themselves are smaller
than
the larger elements of some other set."
trinque: it'd benefit me because you might improve
the
thing
trinque: phf: my point above is
that, if you asked me for sauce I'd provide it for reasons entirely other
than philosophy
mircea_popescu: phf i'm game for a full analysis of
them if you care
to state any.
the problem broadly is
that
they're nonsense as-found.
mircea_popescu: phf i don't see a problem with gpl per se, but i'm not going
to enforce it myself.
phf: wouldn't
this sort of statements of philosophical position (i don't know a better
term) still be effective among
the aristoi?
there's
that idea
that u.s. constitution was written for
the privileged classes, and
that you had
to a) be able
to write b) own a pen c) own a piece of paper
to participate in voting process. or would gpl still be a bad idea if was restricted
to in-wot?
mircea_popescu: now i have rum all over my desk wtf. why's
that so funny
mircea_popescu: anyway. i'll concur with you saying
that it's one lousy fuck, how about
that.
mircea_popescu: and yes, understanding === being fucked ;
the process is called "education" because "fucking" is
too harsh apparently.
mircea_popescu: there's no freedom
to understand anymore
than
there's a freedom
to decide who fucks you.
mircea_popescu: what's
this, meta-communism ? "not
these people are equal, but some ideal people somewhere else" ?
trinque: "free
to understand" for everyone is a
ticket straight
to cancerous chimeric hell
mircea_popescu: your cat now has
the right
to understand differential calculus. proceed.
mircea_popescu: i don't see value in
this. what,
there's a universal right
to understand ?
a111: Logged on 2016-06-30 14:31 asciilifeform: i still say
that source availability is a red herring here
phf: and
the attitude went from "docs??"
to "ha ha i guess reading documentation pays off ha ha"
to "let me check
the docs"
phf: at least i no longer
think
that i should just send him
to
the farm
phf: one dev
told me he gets sweaty palms when submitting a pull request, and i'm like "good. gooood"
phf: obviously can't do
this in a company with HR, wreckers, etc.
phf: asciilifeform: it's always extracting uranium from sea water :D except
through beatings you hopefully make a slightly smarter sea water
that start bringing greater
traces of uranium
phf: to some extent it's aligned with v model,
the only
thing
that matters is
the
text of patch, you read it, and decide on whether you want
to sign it or not
phf: well, linus gave us a pretty good solution. sit on pull requests, and abuse people when
they submit shit
thestringpuller: "code review" sometimes help, but people will usually bypass code reviews
to get something shipped more quickly.
thestringpuller: phf: ah. stackoverflow development.
That's a good phrase. devs
tend
to be lazy, so when something breaks and stackoverflow has a solution
they put
they put a bandaid over wounds
that require stitches and eventually someone sane has
to sit down and deturdify
the mess.
mircea_popescu: discussing
teh principle of
the
thing moar
than
the cases i exemplify with.
mircea_popescu: basically,
these concerns previously glued
together in o'reilly brand duct
tape just came apart, and will have
to be re-negotiated socially.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in any case, while
the value of "bright young fellow wants
to learn boyer-moore
through checking out phf's code" is
there ; i'm not about
to push you
to publish phuctor code for some vague fetishist love of foss. which i don't have.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu:
the original gutting process was probably painful.
phf: thestringpuller: and requires extensive
training
to undo, for example i make sure all my devs have copies of
the documentation for relevant code on
their machines, and direct
their attention
to it whenever i can. you'd be surprised™ how many people don't even know where
the docs for
their framework etc. are
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller eulora build process is actually quite painless, and has ~nothing in common with
trying
to build planeshift, other
than some dependencies.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 1) nobody of
the "background and experience in management experience spawns many years" derps running ethereum built from source, or COULD build from source. i've seen enough of
those lolz in eulora
to have a pretty close idea ; 2. nobody's asking you
to run
trinque's shit on your box, so
there's a difference here. but 1 and 2 aside, absofuckinglutely wtf.
this isn't about
tivoization of code.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i
think on
the lowest level complexity actually has a positive perceived value. "check out all
the complex shit i <<handle>>". much like kids in
the same age bracket / cultural space in africa laud
themselves with
their voodoo accomplishments.
phf: thestringpuller:
that's called stackoverflow development, and it's ~the~ way development is done now
thestringpuller: AOL
thought it was a good idea
to open flood gates. voila usenet ruined over night.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: perhaps. but i
think its as simple as "adding idiots
to something good ruins it". usenet was similar...