log☇︎
265500+ entries in 0.167s
mircea_popescu: which is why it takes man his entire life to find out who he is.
asciilifeform: i dunno that it even makes sense to attempt rigorous def of this 'identity', at least in any more detail than we define 'earth's crust' -- 'the layer we can drill without the drill melting'
mircea_popescu: me too.
asciilifeform: i was referring to identity in the psychiatric, rather than mathematical sense.
mircea_popescu: but for everyone else, identity is a deductive result, which is why there can't be such a thing as "an example of you"
asciilifeform: (glass, contrary to the mysteriously popular delusion, is ~not~ a liquid)
mircea_popescu: i do, but to quote myself, "Grecii sunt scutul, nu sulita, ca de obicei exact altfel, exact invers, exact pe dos decat ne asteptam noi, in convingerea noastra ca i-am inteles. Si ca de obicei, au dreptate."
mircea_popescu: if identity is in fact "a set of deep habits" then you are a woman in the greek sense of that term ; and moreover i have nfi why you wouldn't be happy in the inca state.
asciilifeform: and doesn't mircea_popescu surgically operate on identities in his spare time every night ?
mircea_popescu: you can't prefer among a set with cardinality less than two, that's why. sure, your identity may require you to not do x. this is fine, BUT IT IS ALSO NOT A PREFERENCE. it's your identity.
asciilifeform: and i can even see where mircea_popescu makes the cut, 'this is not same as to prefer the death'
mircea_popescu: yes, but it induces a whole slew of shit that then passes for thought.
asciilifeform: from refusal to take whatever else is on the table.
mircea_popescu: yes, "obvicously" what's "meant" is an approximation. then through practice that obvious goes away, much like rubber gloves one never changes or reviews,
mircea_popescu: the notion that one "prefers death" is very similar to "cut me e length of rope"
asciilifeform: i will not disagree that if engineer gets up from his desk and asks for a sqrt(-2)-metre long stick, he has problem.
mircea_popescu: there's a long history of playing fast and loose with domain before one arrives at this wretched state where he "prefers complex numbers".
asciilifeform: rather than ask machinist to cut a complex length of steel
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a man who is a plumber is not by this measure "a plague victim". yes, the man works in shit all day. but : he does the work in shit with shit tools, and then he presumably eats with eat tools. he doesn't mix the two.
asciilifeform: is it simply that engineer, at the end of the day, puts the complex nums back into their drawers ?
mircea_popescu: but i am starting to udnerstand why ~any math phd i ever encountered has major social function issues.
asciilifeform: plox to expand on this ?
asciilifeform: everybody who builds, e.g., 3phase motor, 'sits down for tea with complex numbers'
mircea_popescu: what's "manipulation" to do with it ? if you claimed you sat down to have tea with some complex numbers, i'd point out the batshit insanity of that notion just like above, yes.
asciilifeform: incidentally, does mircea_popescu also object to manipulations on, e.g., complex numbers ?
mircea_popescu: no example is required to decide any dispute. the example is a teaching tool, not a reasoning tool.
asciilifeform: 'fella thought that 1==2 and looky how long are his guts'
asciilifeform: i don't partake in the 'aristotelian' notion of correctness - 'do this because fella with a beard 3 metres long said it to be correct'. gotta show example of the kind of disaster one might arrive at via the incorrectness.
mircea_popescu: usefully at the destruction of correctly is pretty much the "western world" example.
asciilifeform: including the ideal of his own burning corpse, yes.
asciilifeform: ability to usefully juggle idealia, and not only realia, is what distinguishes man from dog.
mircea_popescu: that it's present to you dun mean it's present to them.
asciilifeform: so how does this square up with the 'not present' item ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they didn't, nor do i, nor does anyone capable of thinking.
thestringpuller is too nice
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller don't be the messenger. kid can gpg like anyone else.
asciilifeform: the other observation re the greeks is that they did ~not~, by any indication, believe that a man who walks headfront into his death is necessarily acting illogically.
thestringpuller: don't stab the messenger!
mircea_popescu: gtfo, by the same token elliot knows a lot about fucking ; and the exact-copies of him in charge of the circus act that in the us passes for finance now that the arabs have entirely decapitated it know a lot about bankruptcy
asciilifeform: idea is not 'know' but specifically reasoning about it in the mine field density sense.
mircea_popescu: "oh, i spend all my time counting milimorts so i know a lot about death"
mircea_popescu: i barf at the idea that you dicking around with a statistical model has allowed you to cogently discuss the actual events.
asciilifeform: and incidentally i can readily see why mircea_popescu might barf at idea of millimort as applied to, e.g., road fatality
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'd guess you pivoted the definition. "milimort nonsense" refers to the ridiculous pretense that statistics discusses discrete events ; it is not a proposition that statistical aproaches to risk management are infeasible or their lingo inacceptable.
asciilifeform: or not? and if so where is the cut mircea_popescu draws.
asciilifeform: this, too, is 'millimort nonsense' ?
asciilifeform: say i have option of walking through 2 minefields. one with 1 booby per 10 sq. m., the other - per 20.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform both the "milimort" nonsense and the "operate on own deaths" nonsense do. and it's not coincidental, you evidently build this crap on top of itself.
asciilifeform: even if 10,000,001 derps connect them.
asciilifeform: nothing i said imports this nonsense.
mircea_popescu: it's one thing to say "most black people are uneployed". it is another thing to say "this man is unemmployed because black"
mircea_popescu: look here : risk, as a statistical concern, and phenomenology, as a discrete history of the world, are entirely separate domains.
asciilifeform: actuarial stat is a thing.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform omfg you're going to be an unwashed pop-statistician now too ?!
mircea_popescu: "if i make it what i think it should be it crashes" ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: moreover, the fact that folk are "stuck" operating on windows/other tiling wm "all the time" is really no excuse to smash your stack, as in
asciilifeform: the problem with the greek pov, as re-told by mircea_popescu, is that folks are still stuck logically operating on own deaths all the time, whether they like to or not.
mircea_popescu: no, nude isn't a pejorative, it's not better to be dressed than naked.
asciilifeform: and what would nude variant of this look like ?
mircea_popescu: (btw since stuprum, stupeo was mentioned, let's point out to trinque that the ancient word for rape actually denotes the very benumbment in question.)
mircea_popescu: whether it's nude or dressed discusses the pacification of society. common man tends to be (through herd socialisation) ... "upset" by nudity.
mircea_popescu: a nude call is a call that is not dressed. by parts : a call is an act of judgement, what's normally called "an expert call". when you produce through human heuristic a result that'd better be good enoughy because it's all there is.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: and this sounds like a homework question.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it's a kernelism, debug the way sane people debug kernels, on emulator with gdb hose.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-27 14:40 mircea_popescu: anyway : your death is never present to you, because for while you're here, it is not yet, and once it is, you are no more.
mircea_popescu: your calling induction "demonstration" and you pretending a nude call as to the future counts as either doth not actually change how reason works, you know.
asciilifeform: now demonstrate for the deaths thing.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: probably not your foray, but asking for friend. what's the best way to debug "copy_from_user" without GDB (linux syscall)?
asciilifeform: it is trivially demonstrated that advancing pointer by 4 bt when you alloced 2 will result in unexpected behaviour.
mircea_popescu: bitch, it dun care how often you tihnk it happens.
mircea_popescu: which is why all the scorn for their inevitable "oh but this rarely if ev er happens".
mircea_popescu: incorectness is "your array is 4 bytes and your malloc is 2 bytes", not "if you run this code you get crater"
mircea_popescu: nope. it is sufficient to demonstrate incorectness.
asciilifeform: well no, but to demonstrate the bug you gotta demonstrate the possibility.
mircea_popescu: so wait, wait, if "nobody's key got compromised" then koch bug was no bug ?
asciilifeform switches on emulated mircea_popescutron, who answers with the inevitable mussolini quote
asciilifeform: that's the difference between mathematics and talmudism.
asciilifeform: if no crash, the bound was no bound.
mircea_popescu: going out of bounds is the exact equivalent in practice of the medieval notion of "losing communion with god". you're... lost.
asciilifeform: i.e. the div by 0, or overflow, etc.
asciilifeform: you gotta point out the absurdum yer reductio-ing this ad to.
mircea_popescu: the practical difference it makes is that if you stuprum definitions the results are - by definition - undefined. just like when you smash buffers, what you get is a no-longer-working machine. irrespective of what "practical" difference it makes understood as "i still see tiled windows so all is well"
asciilifeform: and what of this 'not present' thing ?
mircea_popescu: anyway : your death is never present to you, because for while you're here, it is not yet, and once it is, you are no more. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: the idea is to protect yourself from workplace injuries, not to embrace them. what is this, 1800s sulphur mine kids in sicily ? hunchback and sideways ?
asciilifeform: well i work with these for a living, what.
mircea_popescu: exact fucking definition of derealisation, as in the psychosis symptom. "can't distinguish between things present and things in own head."
mircea_popescu: this qualifies as insanity. wtf do you mean the realia-idealia is "distinction without a difference" ?
asciilifeform: as far as i can see, this is a distinction without a difference
mircea_popescu: that whatever they pick, death isn't a present thing.
asciilifeform: what's the problem mircea_popescu has with this ?
asciilifeform: folks of rational and upstanding character pick deaths all the time. instead of betrayal, instead of retreat, dishonour, etc.
mircea_popescu: if you didn't know geometry known in ancient greece you'd be worried. but this ?
mircea_popescu: how the hell did you end up with the idea death is ? fucking ancients knew proof to the contrary.
mircea_popescu: and you're way too liberal with this "oh, bigint ? sure i'll smush a string in there!"
mircea_popescu: if they won't eat the cockroach, they don't have a preference, they just gave up, or whatever.
mircea_popescu: if they ate dragonflies rather than wasps, they'd have had a preference for dragonflies and preferred dragonflies.
mircea_popescu: death of starvation is not one present thing.
asciilifeform: well they had two present things, insect protein, and death of starvation... picked the latter.
mircea_popescu: choice between one or fewer present things is not preference, but ideology/insanity/identity/whatever you wish to call it.