asciilifeform: in that very special sense of 'need'

asciilifeform: in the sense of a street beggar

asciilifeform: the bad ones seem to be motivated by... need.

asciilifeform: e.g. bulgarian 'dark avenger' and his intellectual descendents

asciilifeform: the good ones are clearly motivated by the pleasure of the craft

asciilifeform: the few exceptions tend to get hyped up in the media organs

asciilifeform: curiously, the uptake of btc among crap artists has, so far, been minimal. they are very 'tradition-bound.'

asciilifeform: in that the true craftsmen stand to profit directly from their craftsmanship, while the idiots are doing it 'as a job'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: correct. and what's yet funnier, it showcases the 'marx' point about 'alienated labour'

asciilifeform: in the sense that it spans the entire spectrum from 'idiot, how does he remember to breathe' to 'brilliant, jewel of the ages'

asciilifeform: crapware is a very valuable psychological gauge of mankind

asciilifeform: (obligatory note about the traditional 'good spies' vs. 'famous spies')

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the most successful ones i've 'met' so far live in your home town.

asciilifeform: some of them, if they could be fishermen on some forgotten shore, would probably take it up.

asciilifeform: they want to eat without submitting.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as someone who works 'with' these people, i think i have a bit of a psycho-crackpot angle on their driving philosophy

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm pretty sure i lifted that phrase straight from your essays

asciilifeform: most of the career spammers / crapware artists are based in parts of the world where the resulting pennies buy you something approaching a civilized life.

asciilifeform: getting back to the crapware: most instances you're dealing with a case of 'work 12 hrs. a day to make minim. wage while you sleep.' ☟︎

asciilifeform: i do agree, it's far more interesting with fully-functioning devils.

asciilifeform: worst part is that in this latter case, the devil occasionally appears and shits out a little gold, just enough to temp the sinner into being stupider

asciilifeform: i think back to this every time i read about the btc mining 'industry.'

asciilifeform: each time, for a much greater price

asciilifeform: the book changed hands many, many times

asciilifeform: who would help him find treasures

asciilifeform: that promised the reader that he could learn to summon devils

asciilifeform: as a boy, i read about an 18th c. book, 'Triple Power over the Forces of Hell' ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: who heard, of someone long ago and far away, turning a profit...

asciilifeform: about how most spammers are cargo cultists

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: remember your essay on spam?

asciilifeform: most of what i see is profoundly disappointing in the intellectual sense.

asciilifeform: maybe once i leave that work behind. i promise it isn't an interesting story though.

asciilifeform: KRS1: crap artists (whom i hunt for a living, different story) never seem to have any problem renting out space on their crapnets.

asciilifeform: (in the medieval sense of 'rogue')

asciilifeform: i'm not certain why you so readily conclude that they aren't happy 'wolf men'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i specifically brought up crapware as a field where a modestly clever fellow could work without answering to anyone.

asciilifeform: (put people off winblows)

asciilifeform: and would be serving a useful 'ecological purpose'

asciilifeform: the funny part is that these folks would be richer, work less, and spend slightly less time in jail if... they wrote virii.

asciilifeform: neither is 'sewers', but definitely worth reading.

asciilifeform: "the answer lies in the sewers."

asciilifeform: http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/2711/1/The%20answer%20lies%20in%20the%20sewers(lsero).pdf

asciilifeform: speaking of truly bizarre, for anyone who missed it earlier:

asciilifeform: (though if i actually gave a damn about exploiting casascius, last thing i'd do is tell people about it.)

asciilifeform: well, chain of custody could help you avoid coins touched by people with dirty minds, like you and i.

asciilifeform: 'best way to predict the future is to invent it.'

asciilifeform: 'slight' is not quite as spiffy as 'none.'

asciilifeform: can't imagine it would survive a public reading of the key through the holo.

asciilifeform: crack one, crack them all...

asciilifeform: wonder if just us having this conversation shaved a few pennies of the market value of these things

asciilifeform: ('m16' barrel wrench. single-piece combo tools are nothing new.)

asciilifeform: looks a little like: http://www.milsurpstuff.com/prodimages/PJTW1.jpg

asciilifeform: (as good a guess as any)

asciilifeform: china tests orbital laser cutter.

asciilifeform: http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/2011/11/Snapshot-2011-11-14-16-35-171.jpg

asciilifeform: well then.

asciilifeform: if so, this means you can check your answer without popping the coin's cherry.

asciilifeform: btw, what's the thing printed on the top? 1st characters of key?

asciilifeform: why count on others, do it yerself

asciilifeform: treat the system as a grid of very small capacitors...

asciilifeform: holo is aluminum, coin is brass, ink+paper -> dielectric

asciilifeform: you might even be able to use the piezo needle for x-y and a sensitive capacitance meter for the 'ink' signal.

asciilifeform: once you establish a way to pick up ink/no-ink on the holo side, the jig is up.

asciilifeform: stepper motor is geared so 1 step = x mm. of belt travel

asciilifeform: 3d printer gives you 0.1mm/step at best

asciilifeform: nope. you need oscillating analogue signal for the kind of distances involved

asciilifeform: one kid did an $50 demo (a decade or two ago?)

asciilifeform: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f9/ScanningTunnelingMicroscope_schematic.png

asciilifeform: think 'record player' but with a very sharp needle and on an x-y plane instead of spiral.

asciilifeform: poor man's STM can be made with a pair of piezo speakers ($1-5 each)

asciilifeform: ink has mass!

asciilifeform: watch for bumps.

asciilifeform: STM (microscope) the holo side.

asciilifeform: private key is presumably printed after hologram is made

asciilifeform: other idea

asciilifeform: brass with paper glued to it should suffice for a proof of concept.

asciilifeform: no need to use an actual coin to experiment

asciilifeform: that's pretty easy. your tea kettle does much the same.

asciilifeform: re: fireplace: nobody cancelled thermodynamics. your main problem will be to find a cold object for the other end of the peltier.

asciilifeform: consumer cpu peltier isn't the answer here, you want a fat stack like the kind used in PCR machines.

asciilifeform: peltier element stack. keep the paper at a comfortable 20C.

asciilifeform: so you remove the heat on the other side.

asciilifeform: http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/uploaded/Omnivorous/20120304_moneta.jpg

asciilifeform: re: drilling:

asciilifeform: (unless you're a complete noob)

asciilifeform: and laser doesn't melt, it sublimates.

asciilifeform: it doesn't even singe

asciilifeform: try it

asciilifeform: ever boil water in a paper cup?

asciilifeform: http://site.spyville.com/spy-coins/spy-coin-quarter.jpg

asciilifeform: metal can be replicated with 19th c. tech.

asciilifeform: hologram is untouched.

asciilifeform: or drill with same, then borescope.

asciilifeform: slice metal coin with appropriate tool (excimer laser?), read key, fuse metal again.

asciilifeform: then you have your answer.

asciilifeform: the coin

asciilifeform: or just metal

asciilifeform: yes, but is there a holo?

asciilifeform: what's on the other side?

asciilifeform: this, i take it, is the scheme?