log☇︎
250300+ entries in 0.149s
asciilifeform: it is too late for grown men to learn damn near anything
mircea_popescu: i do not wish to construct systems that much need, let alone require, or depend on, ace pilots.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's worse than that : it's too late for you to learn now.
asciilifeform: doesn't mean that jet fighters are useless.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, sure, it was a cancer on top of an avorton. but this doesn't change the fact that even if you cleaned up the tumor, you'd have an aborted fetus.
asciilifeform: hey i never learned to fly a jet fighter;
mircea_popescu: this would be the ultimate in assembly line phding
mircea_popescu: i did not like ripple, as i don't like this, because it requires a level of financial acumen that is not available in the general population
asciilifeform: iirc ripple was promisetronic though.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is more or less ripple.
asciilifeform: sorta how fiatola works already at the sovereign level.
asciilifeform: trinque: it was a crackpot algo which i suggested, ages ago, where there is no objective coin, but instead, e.g., mircea_popescu can mint any amount (with the total base being public) of mircea_popescucoin, which in turn trinque accepts for certain rate of trinquecoin, etc, etc., integrated with wot
mircea_popescu: which is how we prevailed historically, against all the other groups
trinque pulls up to reread
mircea_popescu: trinque the whole reason wot and forum are at the basis of republic is this orthogonality which reinforces the bit-coin
asciilifeform: was about, largely, this.
asciilifeform: trinque: see the 'multiverse gossipcoin' old thread
mircea_popescu: much like the medieval eu "here's three weirs and a village fulla sluts. you're a knight now."
mircea_popescu: you got however much worth of koku production. well there yo ugo.
asciilifeform: 'monetary base handed out by hand' equates to an evaporating throne
mircea_popescu: experience shows it's perfectly fine to have a philosopher king, however utterly suicidal to have a philosopher king's throne. bolt is fine, nut will kill you. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: anyway, if mining is a bug, then the philosopher king is a backdoor. ☟︎
asciilifeform: trinque: idea is that a unit of hashicity might cost you, i, and 1,000,001 others -- H, but might cost 'satoshi' 1/1,000,001H.
mircea_popescu: yeah, it wouldn't be kept in pants THAT well is the problem. your argument is solid in principle, but there's a crack in it.
trinque: but I see that either construction ignores fucking privately
trinque: asciilifeform: ftr the argument wasn't about whether kept in pants; it was that if kept in pants, might as well not exist
mircea_popescu: see, this is how the cunt that runs on perl works. "oh, dick moving inside is detectable".
mircea_popescu: the rate is controllable by the owner though.
mircea_popescu: this was the mechanism fucking babylon fell by, and in the intervening 5k years it worked like a charm every single time.
mircea_popescu: if men are better and women worship men, the situation is stable and prosperous. if men are better but women discover they can fuck it all up by gathering together and engaging in the wail (term of art), then society collapses
trinque: nor is "usg shall surely be able to increase interest rates to mop up the money it printed"
mircea_popescu: it creates a disparity of power between two identified groups that is not backed by ontological superiority.
trinque: the claim was that infinite gold/coin/etc shows itself through inflation
mircea_popescu: subjective value, as judged by you ? it doesn't. objective value, as in, the ship of state is being sailed by idiots into the shoals ? 100%.
asciilifeform: trinque: ditto the amd signing key from last month's thread.
trinque: mircea_popescu: while it stays hidden how does it affect the value of gold?
asciilifeform: no alt stands a remote change against 'grandfather's pistol' unless the author also discovers and demonstrates a 'proof of nonchiseling' .
trinque: look how bitcoin rips through USG bureaucracies, but this sha2 pill yet hides?
trinque: and it would have the same effect
trinque: I would have the greatest self control on earth if I found more gold tomorrow than had ever been mined and this did not soon become apparent to everyone.
asciilifeform: that'll simply reset the problem.
mircea_popescu: besides, at some point we'll get rid of sha2 in trb, and then we'll know.
asciilifeform: trinque: i suspect that our null hypotheses differ.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that part is the most dubious, but hey.
trinque: where is the evidence
asciilifeform: you - yes, me - yes ; fella with the sha2 pill - ~0.
asciilifeform: trinque: see thread. mining is not provably costing all of the participants anything.
trinque: how the fuck, economics does not work that way
mircea_popescu: the bug is the feature.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: which is moronic if there is any way to avoid it.
trinque: how the hell is it the same result?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's the other angle of it though. mining forces you to burn half your milk.
asciilifeform: like the rest of crypto.
mircea_popescu: who knows, maybe a person may be found, somehow, somewhere, in all this muck.
asciilifeform: accomplishes ~same result as author of coin personally handing out the monetary base, but messier and more expensively.
asciilifeform: 'mining is a bug' because, as mircea_popescu even appeared to agree earlier, it is promisetronic.
mircea_popescu: you'll have to go into proper detail i guess.
ben_vulpes: the infinite to bitcoin's finite, if you will. ☟︎
ben_vulpes: totally different thing.
mircea_popescu: of course it's tied ?
ben_vulpes: (since we're talking crackpot alts)
ben_vulpes: because not tied to a finite amount.
mircea_popescu: difficulty is a proxy for "are we there yet ?" ; once half the energy available is burned to mine, we're there yet. the difficulty equiv of this can be calculated.
mircea_popescu: but there's naught more abundant in nature than time.
mircea_popescu: it's scarce like time is scarce - you can't make more, just squander what you got.
mircea_popescu: the fact that the world existed before all of them should be sufficient proof.
asciilifeform: scarce in the 'nobody is obviously wielding an infinite hose of it' sense.
asciilifeform: but, in the customary picture, something scarce.
asciilifeform: recall the multiverse 'coin' ?
mircea_popescu: teh gods demand their sacrifice.
mircea_popescu: unless they "tattoo" so to speak, ie, burn perfectly fine fat, they can't work.
asciilifeform: there are, theoretically, schemes for mineless coin that do not resolve to any obviously idiotic or centralized thing.
mircea_popescu: yes, there's no such thing as perfect bitcoin wrt work functions.
asciilifeform: well, 'do the hash' + 'not get orphaned'
mircea_popescu: as opposed to you know, bitcoin, where if you do the hash you get the coin, anyone else be damned.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "premined" generalized here to mean, "you can do any work you want - unless recognized by authority it dun exist".
asciilifeform: is 'linux' here the proggy, or the microphone+podium ?
mircea_popescu: the objection never was as far as i can discern that linus did it (unless of course one is to give voice to the "feminist" cows), but that he seems to have given the keys away
mircea_popescu: heh. ~equal to us level inflation.
asciilifeform: (and was not merely premined, but the 'btcphobic' mr mold had 'coins', of which there are only 256, die ! after 9 moves.)
mircea_popescu: which ties right into the above discussion of altcoin heads (they can't meaningfully criticize means they can't think) and more generally in the difference between republican forum and imperial forum (eg, reddit). the latter exists specifically so no work is done.
asciilifeform: was interesting, when it was interesting, ~in spite of~, not because, of the premine.
mircea_popescu: then the mocking begun.
mircea_popescu: you mean generally or here ? iirc urbit was eagerly followed for 3-4 weeks here, until it became obvious the author is technically inept and the following he has entirely disinterested in doing any useful work.
asciilifeform: aaand yet the alts where author simply pocketed the monetarybase and distributed by hand from own pocket - were laughed off.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-20 22:53 asciilifeform: as i see it , this is not satisfactorily solvable, the author cannot prove that he did not retain a crib sheet to the keyz.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-20#1557358 << kinda what makes bothering with p2p in this particular subspace pointless. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: less so than eg ethereum.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-20 22:51 asciilifeform: possibly this is analogous to eulora's 'copper' ?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-20#1557355 << yes. i very much claim that type for eulora. it's been done, turns out you just dunno where to look :) ☝︎
mircea_popescu: they're on doge team or ripple team like other people support coventry or wolverhampton. it's to their dumb head immoral to switch teams because the others got better players. ON THE CONTRARY.
mircea_popescu: the most symptomatic point being that they absolutely fucking never have any kind of reason to dislike anything. ever saw an altcoin head meaningfully discuss the drawbacks in alternatives ?
Framedragger: trinque: i know i know. (i'm young to answer q)
asciilifeform: just that it would be something other than the usual snore
mircea_popescu: these aren't usually the same people as come up with anything worth reading.
a111: Logged on 2016-10-20 22:49 asciilifeform: unrelated to any of this, i recently went on a dig re crackpot altcoins, and was again disappointed, much of the phase space was never explored. for instance, it does not appear that anyone ever tried a 'captain kidd' alt
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-20#1557353 << well, it's sad, but i can't say i'm disappointed, because i had no expectation otherwise. the psychology of the alt-coin purveyor is very much as exemplified by that covertress chick : ambitious, mommy told her she's special which she believes, and "problems" "can always be overcome". preferably - by someone else. you know, what's washington gonna do about it. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-10-20 20:28 trinque: hm, perhaps the problem is one is thinking of completely untrustworthy flat topography of grey-goo nodes, and the other, in-wot nodes?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-20#1557323 << possibly the implication of wot not fully digested as of yet. ☝︎
mircea_popescu: spooked the party even