log☇︎
25300+ entries in 0.152s
mod6: Ok, if any others pop up, that I don't (for whatever reason) see, just holler. Will get ya the coins.
diana_coman: and it's the one running the proto-cuntoo; I think it's needed at least until we can migrate to cuntoo+gnat
mod6: I'll send you the coins here in just a bit.
asciilifeform: i suspect it's at least partially meat-powered shop : 'Please be advised that a sales (Account manager) will reach out to you at their earliest convenience .'
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 15:13 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: as i understand, it was actually ~roll piano~ that nuked 'entertain self' music, rather than the scratchy phonograph of the time
asciilifeform: if it eats my 'can of soda' coin, i'ma try another
mircea_popescu: i dunno why we'd ever switch it lol. worst comes to worst, we use it like those old kgb stations, "voice of woman reading number sets"
asciilifeform: aite i'ma get the slightly cheaper-per one, we can switch laters
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-07#1859166 << how do i turn this into 2 possible sentences ? i only see 1... ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-07 01:08 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859002 << i can't say as i understand wtf portage even is ; and i nurse some doubts as to whether anyone (yes, yes, i know you know what you'd want it to be. however...)
a111: Logged on 2018-10-07 00:05 mircea_popescu: you mean the client ? no-one's even bothered to genesis thart yet ; being replaced i expect.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 23:54 asciilifeform: also while mircea_popescu is awake : if you have the dest # for the 1-800 thing, plox to gpggram, i'ma bake it ( theoretically oughta be live in day or 2 from revv-up )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1859002 << i can't say as i understand wtf portage even is ; and i nurse some doubts as to whether anyone (yes, yes, i know you know what you'd want it to be. however...) ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 19:47 trinque: yep, I'm just making sure nobody expects more than "caught linux in working state at point in time" just yet
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858998 << as far as anyone knows, it's still ~experimental~ item anyway. not that it'd be nice for it to work, but really, expecting ? i ain't expecting it to. it's a wonder things like eg http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-06#1858794 worked, but i frankly was not expecting anything as lofty as "piece of hardware can be made to work" ☝︎☝︎
BingoBoingo: As I await the board to approve the Pizarro report I bring a nugget from the research mines: "Just try to have a good time and work hard to find a better job. Budtending is nowhere land."
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 23:58 phf: i have couple of hours tomorrow, so i'll pick up the deletions and renames code either way, and either release it, or give an estimate for how long it will take me to bake it
phf: mircea_popescu: well, short of cutting my head off, or handing it over, i can add the missing bits
phf: mircea_popescu: delivered item does not match 3rd of april algo. the algo was invented after delivered item was fully implemented with the idea that the algorithm can be added to the item transparently. but it was also around the time that i could no longer work on the item, so it remained unchanged since then
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 23:24 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sadly enuff, i was right in re the current phf-vdiff . observe : a) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5ZYgF/?raw=true << example of deleting a text file. in fact uses same deletion representation as ordinary gnudiff, where entire payload is quoted. b) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/vl2Ca/?raw=true << attempt to represent deletion of 1MB from FG. result : same as in oldschool gnudiff.
mircea_popescu: i recall the succesion of steps of 1. being very happy with solution that was all smiles and no bruises ; 2. being satisfied that the people involved understood 1 ; 3. unloaded it from head. now in the nightmare consequent of "4. wait, what was it ?"
mircea_popescu: i am aware.
mircea_popescu: as i say, my latter statement of the notion was misleading & vague.
phf: yes, i remember the algo, and algo requires that the hash is just of content. i thought i was entirely insane, because immediately after "hash the name + content" i say "we're on the same page"
asciilifeform: phf: i think errything you need, is in there.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-03#1792105 << closest i found to spec for mircea_popescu's algo . ☝︎
mircea_popescu: and ~i~ should have written a blog article about it ? wtf would i put in it ?
phf: and later i say we're on the same page, and i have no idea why and how
a111: Logged on 2018-04-02 23:57 mircea_popescu: at which juncture i suppose it'd pay to check, huh. hey phf, my memory of logs discussion includes this item whereby the above problem was fully resolved by declaring the path as inseparable part of the filename. you on the same page ?
mircea_popescu: well now i'm reading through all dis, what can do. phf's four months at work resulted in same many months of rot, now we don't recall the spec, log is long, life is short, so on an' so forth.
phf: i'm trying to find the relevant thread right now
phf: mircea_popescu: the later, but i don't think that was the last iteration of your algorithm
asciilifeform: i actually posted an experimental vtron that hashed the names
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i'm mapping out the size of the hole, rather than dancing on mircea_popescu's toes for phun; have patience, if i've found this earlier, yer toes would not hurt nao.
mircea_popescu: but i am not currently in a position to take a day off and review poorly executed jobs in detail.
mircea_popescu: i can't currently conceive how the fuck he even MADE a vtools without it, because it was a root node and nothing works without it anyway (eg, i expect all the hashes he calculates are wrong)
mircea_popescu: you mean the client ? no-one's even bothered to genesis thart yet ; being replaced i expect. ☟︎
asciilifeform: possibly, i'ma have to rewalk the pertinent l0gz when i get a chance
phf: asciilifeform: i think the divergent points were a lot more elaborate than this particular reduction
phf: i have couple of hours tomorrow, so i'll pick up the deletions and renames code either way, and either release it, or give an estimate for how long it will take me to bake it ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: also while mircea_popescu is awake : if you have the dest # for the 1-800 thing, plox to gpggram, i'ma bake it ( theoretically oughta be live in day or 2 from revv-up ) ☟︎
phf: my first priority is to revive delete/rename though since i have algo and code for it
phf: asciilifeform: i don't have binary diffing even in prototype form, if you could adaize your needleman-wunsch i could add it to vtools, the way i did with diana_coman's keccak ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf: if you already have the coad for this, let's have it; otherwise i have a cl needleman-wunsch routine that i will adaize.
asciilifeform: phf: rright but i distinctly recall that it was settled in favour of 'gotta have bin diffing'
asciilifeform: how is it that i'm the first to notice this hole.
asciilifeform: phf: do ya think you can post the binaries-eating version soon-ish ? i'd like to regrind FG, for example.
phf: mircea_popescu: i understand, it's the height of idiocy on my part
mircea_popescu: phf i am very not happy with the situation.
asciilifeform: ( i suggested several ways of doing this )
asciilifeform: this is why i was not hurrying to regrind, thought (turns out correctly) that the new vdiff ain't 100% yet
asciilifeform: ( recall, i did not have objection to breaking it thusly, imho oughta be able to represent bins )
mircea_popescu: i don't give a shit. let all format breakingds HAPPEN AT ONCE
phf: asciilifeform is right, i dropped the ball on it. i prototyped it right after we had a conversation, and then i had the four months of fiat work, and i forgot that it was on my plate.
asciilifeform: i am testing the version given in http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vtools-keccak-regrind/ .
asciilifeform: and i do recall that mircea_popescu specced this feature. but seems like it aint there yet.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sadly enuff, i was right in re the current phf-vdiff . observe : a) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/5ZYgF/?raw=true << example of deleting a text file. in fact uses same deletion representation as ordinary gnudiff, where entire payload is quoted. b) http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/vl2Ca/?raw=true << attempt to represent deletion of 1MB from FG. result : same as in oldschool gnudiff. ☟︎
asciilifeform: i did say 'afaik' neh
mircea_popescu: i really don't like this constant process you got in your head going sed -e 's/i don't know/doesn't exist/' everything-i-never-read.txt
asciilifeform: hm did it throw out the 'deletions must be reversible' thing ? now i gotta try it..
trinque: ah I was over here trying to figure out what webcomic that was, maybe oatmeal
asciilifeform: ( my primary objection to a hypothetical hybrid, is that i often do work on boxes with no nic, and imho builder must not rely on connectivity )
asciilifeform: ( i can't picture an integrated hybrid being less gnarly ; could be wrong about this tho )
asciilifeform: even from existing gnu liquishit, it is fairly easy, turns out, to remove ( e.g. as i did with the mpi that diana_coman made into the 1st half of eucrypt )
asciilifeform: ( i have said before, would like to see the autoconf atrocity properly disappear into an unmarked grave )
asciilifeform: trinque: i also have visions of integration with gossipd, where the thing, given a wot key, will know how to ask owner for $source item. but this is yet a bridge too far.
asciilifeform: trinque: trashed, i'd hope, eventually
trinque: yep, I'm just making sure nobody expects more than "caught linux in working state at point in time" just yet ☟︎
asciilifeform: it was my understanding that it is eventually to happen. but i do recall that trinque's current item dun have it yet.
trinque: what I'm doing is replacing the "rsync ebuilds from server" mechanism
trinque: I do not intend to boil the ocean by replacing portage
asciilifeform: ( i do not know if trinque is going with the old gentoo-flavoured terminology, but expect that process will be roughly similar )
asciilifeform: way i picture it, is on cuntoo, equipped with wot keys, all you'd have to do is e.g. 'vmerge phf-v', 'vselect phf-v' and you get his latest.
asciilifeform: ( i.e. working vtron already present )
diana_coman: my understanding was that the starter would be just that, fixed minimal thing to get started, I don't see the need to change it and/or keep in sync
diana_coman: the part I don't get is: what does "pressed manually with gnupatch" earn you vs "manually verify sig on this archive here"? (I assume the archive won't be 100MB of shit, ofc)
asciilifeform: ( and i suspect it'll be a while before e.g. cuntoo is distributed entirely without gnupatch )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i suspect idea was 'make him manually gpg --verify ... and then press by hand-gnupatch a la pre-v trb, better than signed tar'. but i'ma let phf clarify.
diana_coman: well, if it's "give" then it will have to be signed tar as far as I can tell, I still don't see why one would basically import gnu patch just in order to "give n00b" anything; the options are always either "take what exists i.e. on trust " (in which case archive) or "go and make your own" in which case what's the problem
asciilifeform: diana_coman: as i understand q was 'how to give n00b his 1st vtron'
a111: Logged on 2018-10-06 16:40 phf: apropos i want to move vtools to keccak, but i'm not sure what's the best way to solve bootstrapping problem. a signed tar archive of a press that can be used to bootstrap or manual press instructions using gnu patch?
asciilifeform: ... or, in same vein, the thing i ended up having to do in http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=fg case
mircea_popescu: as long as you patch on his keccak tree i can't see how it could not be.
mircea_popescu: i somehow doubt re-reading his vtools is such a waste ; but anyways!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in re regrinds in particular, i am more thinking of mistakes, than lies
mircea_popescu: i frankly don't see much problem with it either way ; but i will say that your lie-detectors suffer from a certain naivite, whereby they're tuned to catch reality lying (ie, something that has no reflexivity, will lie regardless of your apparatus). this is not so useful with people.
mircea_popescu: right. then it follows, "but if you think this is not the place, ie, trust phf... then why not trust him ?". is your retort here what i imaginarily quoted, "because i like to use the measuring tools i have whether needed or not" ?
asciilifeform: rereading is great, but it isn't cost-free. if i sit down to reread trb , i'ma have to come back in a ~year
mircea_popescu: "yes mp, but best used other places, it's still expensive" "but if you think this is not the place, ie, trust phf... then why not trust him ?" "because i like to use the measuring tools i have whether needed or not" ?
asciilifeform: simple : that if i find that it doesn't work quite same as previous, i nao have to consider hypothesis that phf made a mistake.
mircea_popescu: i could see the direct "well -- i had read his old one ; dun wanna re-read the new one, if it's same." but... i thought re-reading was one of our values ?
asciilifeform: i try to avoid it when possible.
asciilifeform: maintaining hard-continuity of history is nearly whole point, as i see it , of vtronics.
mircea_popescu: the best definition i currently have for "State" is "collection of simple mechanisms without actual function".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i do not agree that heuristic is useful.
mircea_popescu: can i have the boot sequence ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but i mean, what's the boot sequence here contemplated ?
BingoBoingo: I see not reason not to go with the tar seeing how gnupatch is enemy materials
a111: Logged on 2018-09-19 15:18 asciilifeform: diana_coman: i like the new v format, but i also very strongly wish to avoid coming to resemble the urbit people, with their 'aah we restarted the universe for the 7th time'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i gotta disagree re 'nothing starts as it', there is a history, and http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-19#1851660 is a thing ☝︎