asciilifeform: beyond us to produce a dual system of astronomy? The stars can be near or distant, according as we need them. Do you suppose our mathematicians are unequal to that? Have you forgotten doublethink?' (1984)
asciilifeform: chetty: ''Winston made another convulsive movement. This time he did not say anything. O'Brien continued as though answering a spoken objection: 'For certain purposes, of course, that is not true. When we navigate the ocean, or when we predict an eclipse, we often find it convenient to assume that the earth goes round the sun and that the stars are millions upon millions of kilometres away. But what of it? Do you suppose it is☟︎
asciilifeform: but if a skateboard with a missing wheel is a substitute for a 'boeing' - then, sure.
asciilifeform: Pierre_Rochard: there is nothing, and good reason to think there cannot be, anything which even rises to the level of an ersatz.
asciilifeform: Pierre_Rochard: see mircea_popescu's articles (ask him which, when he reappears) for elaboration.
asciilifeform: Pierre_Rochard: there are sound mathematical reasons to believe that there cannot be a stable substitute in any meaningful sense.
asciilifeform: davout: the idea that there is, was, or can be, an actual substitute (what is the substitute for electrical current ?) - ...
asciilifeform: Pierre_Rochard: because mr. obama has not handed each of them three quintillion bitcoins yet.
asciilifeform: and i'd love to fly on an f-35 with gigantic, fart-flaming pigs instead of engines.
asciilifeform: 'every man, woman, child' in america, africa, mars, alpha centauri - 'deserves' - a 'free' - mercedes, ph.d., three quintillion zimbabwe dollars...
asciilifeform: jurov: yes, while somehow (by divine intervention?) remaining 'bitcoin'
asciilifeform: not necessarily on account of being stupid. a flunkie, lying from a position of desperation (our friend) - is overcome by anxiety, which inhibits creativity. on the other hand, an official liar, lying from a position of brute strength (e.g., keith alexander), is hobbled by complacency.
asciilifeform: folks who live by weaseling, smokescreen, evasion, tend to have just a few tricks up their sleeves.
asciilifeform: even though we did not get to see this, it is not difficult to imagine how the conversation may have went.
asciilifeform: it still escapes me, what he was hoping to achieve by coming here.
asciilifeform: not any kind of surprise, incidentally, to a student of history (all soviet bureaucrats likewise spoke in one voice.)
asciilifeform: it is as if all tentacles of the beast spoke with a single voice.
asciilifeform: hence ben_vulpes's astute observation, being that the spirit of mr. spam walked again from the grave
asciilifeform: full nodes - as in, history-preserving.
asciilifeform: gavinandresen: how are 20MB blocks a mechanism of 'inclusion' for folks who wish to continue running full nodes ?
asciilifeform: gavinandresen: i find it odd that you are interested in inclusion on the user end (transactions) but not the node end
asciilifeform: We’re going to raise prices until we start losing customers << what do you suppose the business model of 'aston martin' is ?
asciilifeform: gavinandresen: in your mind, it is a religion? as in, the gods whispered to you that you must bring as many unbelievers as possible into the fold ?
asciilifeform: gavinandresen: understand that you are now speaking to a number of people who do not believe inclusiveness itself to be a virtue. a steak eaten by a hundred thousand flies is 'more inclusive' than same stake being eaten by a man.
asciilifeform: gavinandresen: another question: why precisely do you wish to rescue those who might be tempted to use 'substitutes' for bitcoin ?
asciilifeform: the whole concept of a 'sidechain' is an elaborate chumpatron.
asciilifeform: (shit is not a fraudulent form of gold, but 'fool's gold' may be put to use as such)
asciilifeform: and by being crafted to give the opposite impression.
asciilifeform: gavinandresen: it is fraudulent by virtue of not being the one and only genuine bitcoin. the schelling point.
asciilifeform: gavinandresen: so you admit that there is not, nor can there be, a non-fraudulent 'substitute' for bitcoin? that altchains, state-minted fiat, cowrie shells, are not in fact equivalent ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu hasn't even opened up yet
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i do believe i succeeded in ultimately pulling his wings off.
asciilifeform: i, for one, would simply like some non-weasel answers to a few basic questions.
asciilifeform: i suspect that he is ignoring most or all of us.
asciilifeform: i can almost imagine some fellow advocating the urgency of bringing down megatonnes of gold from the asteroid belt, because failing this, a great many 'gold users' may take to using paper certificates 'as substitute'
asciilifeform: and what kind of brain damage does it take to see a centralized whatever as any kind of functional substitute for bitcoin ?
asciilifeform: how many need to implode before folks open a game theory textbook and understand that the correct number of blockchains is one ?
asciilifeform: regardless of any perceived shortage of sausage.
asciilifeform: turd is not a substitute for sausage, despite the topological similarities.☟︎
asciilifeform: gavinandresen: none of the items you mentioned is a stable, noninflationary, decentralized store of value.
asciilifeform: gavinandresen: they don't do the same job.
asciilifeform: gavinandresen: except that these systems are not substitutes for bitcoin.
asciilifeform: gavinandresen: i can't afford 'mercedes' so my 'honda' is a fairly good substitute for the machine. but where might one obtain a cheaper, more plentiful ersatz substitute for bitcoin ?
asciilifeform: gavinandresen: where might one find some.
asciilifeform: gavinandresen: if you only answer one of my question, pray tell, what are the 'substitutes' ?
