log☇︎
213700+ entries in 0.144s
asciilifeform: my house is a poor example, i suspect that squirrels could tip it.
mircea_popescu: in this sense your house is broken design, randos could tp it every hour.
asciilifeform: however a node that can be brought to its knees by randos, regardless of how, is also likewise broken design.
mircea_popescu: we aren't actually following a purpose here, like "have a good bitcoin". we're merely proceeding from cause : db is broken and THEREFORE must be fixed. not BECAUSE it would bla bla ; but therefore.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-26 19:14 asciilifeform: the 'type 2' (non-verification) blackhole goes right back to the fundamental question of 'something to all comers', how much disk thrashing does a derp get to invoke simply by coming up with a not-yet-banned ip and a pseudonode.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-26 19:26 mircea_popescu: now then : a fix for the db would significantly improve a few classes of block verification delays ; and it would alleviate blackhole-like behaviour due to that, node's frozen checking a new block. there's at least 3 different dos vectors for other nodes, and a) the foregoing wouldn't help ; b) if it helped the enemy could easily upregulate the crapflood to compensate.
asciilifeform: the unfortunate bit that i keep coming back to in my head, is that http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-26#1618702 + http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-26#1618674 add up to a fundamental boojum, that is not a matter of simply 'make a faster db, buy a faster disk' ☝︎☝︎
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/in-re-bitcoin-devs-are-idiots.htm << the actual event, march 11th
mircea_popescu: and then the usual usgtards were all over "oh, wow, you broke it and then you were "right on it and omg fixed it you're like power rangers" and so...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, this is the one where the idiot miners "updated" and then the update failed and then usgavin gave them some of the bitcoin usg stole to compensate for the lost mining.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2013-05-13#28327 << exciting times. ☝︎
asciilifeform: was this the one where everybody used same buggy client nonsense ?
mircea_popescu: the one during the original split with the idiots who were there baptised as power rangers
asciilifeform: i have this notion, that there was a massive one some time before i tuned in.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's the longest reorg you've personally observed, to date ?
mircea_popescu: one's like "you were in a coma for the past thirty years, here's what happened that you don't remember" ; the other's like "you had a hallucinatory episode, your history for the past x period is bad and you'll have to rewrite it".
a111: Logged on 2016-12-19 18:18 ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if martians produce longest chain with greatest difficulty i think by the rules of the game they own bitcoin
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-19#1585884 << possibly this ☝︎
asciilifeform: iirc we also had this thread
mircea_popescu: and there's actually some benefit for the network not even physically being capable to accept reorgs deeper than x.
asciilifeform: (blocks really oughta live in antifuse rom. we had a thread..)
mircea_popescu: yes, but blocks once written don't change. that's the non-rewritable part.
asciilifeform: bitcoin as we have it, is almost the antithesis of 'tape problem', the ultimate in random access, to the point that it makes disk cache ~useless, every tx can depend on literally any block from 0 to current
mircea_popescu: there is that. i'm just saying, you can have nonrewritable media, whatevs.
asciilifeform: how do you randomaccessfully fetch blocks from tape ?
mircea_popescu: if it works on ext4 it can be implemented on fucking tape.
asciilifeform: something that bitcoin has very little use for
asciilifeform: general-purpose fs is likely to be extremely wasteful of space, because it carries the assumption of rewritability
mircea_popescu: but the reason it's mired in "first, experiment, profile" is because this is EXACTLY the sort of thing which should theoretically work out of the box on a modern nix, and ABSOLUTELY never does, at all. central lizard fodder.
mircea_popescu: i dunno. coupla people sorta-promised to sorta-try.
asciilifeform: has anyone began to do this ?
mircea_popescu: but i have nfi whether this is even feasible, because this'd be step 2, after the "hey, what happens if you fill a disk with symlinks" EXPERIMENT returns some fucking results.
mircea_popescu: with blocks set to 1mb
asciilifeform: (a trb-i item )
asciilifeform: so this'd be a new fs.
mircea_popescu: we will have 1mb blocks on the filesystem.
mircea_popescu: but your file = block (in the fs sense) = block (in bitcoin sense)
asciilifeform: symlink gets you a file containing desired block, but there is no way on any unix fs that i know of, to symlink to ~an offset inside a file~
mircea_popescu: there is that. perhaps a better indexing scheme could be had. hence the fucking symlinks
asciilifeform: but not tx indices
asciilifeform: that only takes care of block fetches
mircea_popescu: i thought that was the idea anyway
mircea_popescu: i thought modern raid controllers did
asciilifeform: nor has any means for bolting on such a thing
asciilifeform: i suspect fs-as-db will have same problem as the ancient shitdb
mircea_popescu: the other problem is that a good db fix is a very large project, because bitcoin is written insanely. and our fs db isn't moving, last i heard a month ago someone was going to try and profile an extx ☟︎
mircea_popescu: now then : a fix for the db would significantly improve a few classes of block verification delays ; and it would alleviate blackhole-like behaviour due to that, node's frozen checking a new block. there's at least 3 different dos vectors for other nodes, and a) the foregoing wouldn't help ; b) if it helped the enemy could easily upregulate the crapflood to compensate. ☟︎
asciilifeform: and i did not bother to vpatchify it.
asciilifeform: i also have a test going where :
asciilifeform: all i got is a stopwatch. the idea is, mod6 et al can run same stopwatch, on other boxes, with other types of disk
mircea_popescu: and i'll point out that the problem here isn't the work, or the thought, but the fucking packaging. you get overexcited and oversignal. it detracts from very valuable stuff.
asciilifeform: and i will point out, none of my findings so far contradict mircea_popescu's original 'it sits and waits for the disk.' only question was, where.
mircea_popescu: which can be briefly summarized as "alf : omg all blackhole is disk wait for db ; mp : thatr's a factor, there's more" repeated a dozen times.
mircea_popescu: we're discussing the discussion on the 24th.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-29 23:20 asciilifeform: type2 ( pete_dushenski's ) is the garden variety shitflood. which is sometimes solved by ip ban, but only in the case of 'shrapnel addressed to occupant', i.e. idiot prb nodes wildly spamming crapolade, and not in the 'bullet with your name on it' case, where somebody actually has a sybil constellation drowning your trb node in liquishit, with no SINGLE ip misbehaving in any way
mircea_popescu: link me to this thread ?
mircea_popescu: and this isn't the first time we run into the problem of ... let's call them sloppy run "experiments". but the second, this week.
asciilifeform: mno, we had a thread where i cut'em up into classes
mircea_popescu: where the FUCK was your "type 1" on the 24th ?
mircea_popescu: you just said this ; yourself ; above. in discussing "type 1" you are engaging in pure nytimes-ism.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you, using my patch or similar, determined that type1 (verification) blackhole consists of any substantial portion of something other than db wait -- i'm all ears
mircea_popescu: "i observed something on three blocks on one machine and here's the 100% conclusion ; tune in tomorrow for another one that a) fails to reference how i was wrong yesterday or address why and b) offer another 100% plus measures to be taken" is entirely undistinguishable.
mircea_popescu: the problem with prb is that it's run by a specific sort of retard.
asciilifeform: seems to consist ~entirely of db.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that was in re the verification blackhole (the most common type observed on dulap)
a111: Logged on 2017-02-24 22:24 asciilifeform: there are no substantial 'other large parts', detectably
asciilifeform: the 'type 2' (non-verification) blackhole goes right back to the fundamental question of 'something to all comers', how much disk thrashing does a derp get to invoke simply by coming up with a not-yet-banned ip and a pseudonode. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: "ProcessBlock (res == 1) took : 167839ms; db write wait: 130117ms; db read wait: 21201ms" lelz
asciilifeform: incidentally, rationing by ip is a nonstarter, notice that the requests come from a multitude of 'nodes'.
asciilifeform: for as long as the enemy is able to keep up the 'gimme, gimme, gimme' flood of 'ahahaha, you're giving something to allcomers! well where's mine'
asciilifeform: this is the mega-prize, folx, the blackhole that can carry on unabated for hours, days, weeks.
asciilifeform: instead we see what appears to be a node simply pecked to death by queued-up getdata-for-block flood
asciilifeform: grep for 'received block' -- it does not appear again in this log. because we are blackholed OUTSIDE of the verification delays.
asciilifeform: we start with where 454862 was received, and (in record time, as it was tiny) accepted.
asciilifeform: finally caught this beast in the wild, in real time
asciilifeform: lol block 454862 , 91.61kB ! >> ProcessBlock (res == 1) took : 11081ms; db write wait: 2402ms; db read wait: 597ms
asciilifeform: ^ ... hardcoded check for the published example !!
asciilifeform: ^ guess what the 'fix' was.
asciilifeform: 'Thursday's watershed attack on the widely used SHA1 hashing function has claimed its first casualty: the version control system used by the WebKit browser engine, which became completely corrupted after someone uploaded two proof-of-concept PDF files that have identical message digests.'
asciilifeform: [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Blackhole Read Timings, and the Verdict.
phf: since then fixed on btcbase
a111: Logged on 2016-12-03 01:35 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-28#1549612 << so normal action is ^AACTION ... ^A, turns that when the line is too long it gets cut off (which is normal behavior) but in case of action none of client seem to do the regular split, meanwhile the irc server cutsoff terminating ^A, which breaks most parsers (including mine)
mircea_popescu: also, apparently trump will not invite un security council to wh gagglemeets either. nor the correspondents dinner.
asciilifeform: 'Rules to receive the up-to-$10,000 award from Project Veritas - Project Veritas only offers awards for valuable video or other media types which was legally obtained. It is important for the submitter to follow all local, state and federal laws while obtaining video or other media for submission.' << snoar
mircea_popescu: also cnnleaks.com if anyone still somehow gives a shit about the fake media orgs.
mircea_popescu: "A 17-year-old transgender boy won a Texas state girls wrestling title on Saturday".
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/walk-hard-the-dewey-cox-story/ << Trilema - Walk Hard: The Dewey Cox Story
deedbot: http://thewhet.net/2017/yankee-doodle-henry-part-iv/ << The Whet - Yankee Doodle Henry, Part IV
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/02/automotive-insurance-premiums-surging-in-united-states-texting-blamed/ << Qntra - Automotive Insurance Premiums Surging In United States, Texting Blamed
shinohai: https://github.com/sparky005/constbot <<< Moar losing party tears
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes , mod6 , et al: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/FEYhA/?raw=true << thus far on dulap. << very cool alf. wow @ 'ProcessBlock (res == 1) took : 218863ms; db write wait: 175065ms'
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BCB341DDDEF343017F32DED678F07753D22B62F19B274955AC2AD739FC55E6D2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9692...0219 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '82.185.178.65 (ssh-rsa key from 82.185.178.65 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host65-178-static.185-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/24698AD72475BB28F25AD63CC626A01EC41AF82BC51BC4CB8118FC5B15BDF42E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1095...1183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.57.196.179 (ssh-rsa key from 217.57.196.179 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host179-196-static.57-217-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/A558B10A1CCC09194358E0502CAFA4415F57F1944DD9FE618E2A2E2D29EFAC0F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1095...1183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '217.57.196.177 (ssh-rsa key from 217.57.196.177 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host177-196-static.57-217-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F7EE9D7418360EBF5222D566B0A5B811023AC29616EBC02A9EE52BDB5A00038A << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1095...1183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '2.116.209.1 (ssh-rsa key from 2.116.209.1 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host1-209-static.116-2-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/575A15CF2DA998E5E78663389111EFA3BF1F80A47EEB005ED795EA946D20253F << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1095...1183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '85.47.20.107 (ssh-rsa key from 85.47.20.107 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host107-20-static.47-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F5531B421CF54E13A5413500A2CAA7EC23E3D2267C57196B08C217AC2A4EF4B7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1095...1183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '62.86.29.254 (ssh-rsa key from 62.86.29.254 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host254-29-static.86-62-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/BCB341DDDEF343017F32DED678F07753D22B62F19B274955AC2AD739FC55E6D2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1095...1183 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '82.185.178.65 (ssh-rsa key from 82.185.178.65 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (host65-178-static.185-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it. IT)
mircea_popescu: provisioning nodes on the basis of "the minimum number needed" is insanity.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-25 23:39 mircea_popescu: you could, in theory.