log☇︎
213000+ entries in 0.131s
mircea_popescu: and not for lack of trying, with always the same abject results.
asciilifeform: miner cannot reproduce the tx-maker, with his fee.
mircea_popescu: the reason man is the head of household is that he can do juyst fine without woman ; not vice-versa.
mircea_popescu: yeah, there is. the fact that node can't reproduce miner but miner can reproduce node.
asciilifeform: there is nothing inherently virile about the miner.
asciilifeform: the algo put miners in the saddle. another algo can put them into the latrine where they belong.
mircea_popescu: whatever attempt to "turn the cock against the man" will fizzle just as soon as man feels like it. the cockbearer is a matter of fact not a matter of convention.
asciilifeform: it is possible to flip his decision around, just the same.
mircea_popescu: yes, but here's the only important lesson of life : it is NOT POSSIBLE to adminstratively decide who are the chicks and who are the cats.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform's aim was to consider gedankexperiment trb-i where this cock is turned around radially, at the miner. who, reaping most of the cake, ought to also absorb the cock.
asciilifeform: classical bitcoin is a massive cock, with the sharp end pointed at the node.
asciilifeform: and also oughta have expanded re the motivating factor. which, possibly, was apparent from the thread context, but ought to have been explicit:
asciilifeform: second, while sleeping asciilifeform did realize that he had nailed down a few parts that ought to have been hinged, and hinged some parts that oughta have been nailed.
asciilifeform: if it was even half as painful to read, as to write.
asciilifeform: sooo first of all, hats off to mircea_popescu for actually digesting this piece
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, the whole segwit thing could be best described as "a rather braindamaged attempt to implement half of stan's casks"
a111: Logged on 2017-02-14 17:51 mircea_popescu: trinque understand the problem with "I will also be piling up the signed material for my records" : if during your lifespan you manage to lose eg a 30yo hdd, because you've built a reviewable system those txn will be reviewable. are you on the hook now for refunds ?
mircea_popescu: a seventh and final problem : you now constructed a chain of casks, on top of the blockchain. consider what happens if node fails to keep his ENTIRE history of casks EVER issued : http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-14#1613884 ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: (imagine how well this handshake'd have worked on any other venue, hurr.)
mircea_popescu: in fact most usecases that don't reduce to "we know each other so really we don't need bitcoin in the first place" fail to be served by your scheme as it is.
mircea_popescu: b) i point and laugh at some idiots. they demure. i ruin their shit. they bitch and whine. i now have to specifically go on the hunt for nodes that DON'T lend an ear to the idiots bitching and whining ? on my own time & dime ? why the everloving fuck. the entire fucking point of even having cryptocurrency in the first place is so that i can rape eth, and flaunt the rape, and nobody can do jack shit other than flimsly psychode
mircea_popescu: and if i try to meet some... they don't roll anything down... a day later finally someone rolls something down and so i put my txn in and it... doesn't get included. wtf is this shit ?
mircea_popescu: a sixth, also major problem is that the system offers no serious guarantees to the user. think of some situations : a) i mined some bitcoin back in 2011, today i clean out the closed and boot up old laptop, to check out the tits and bits of ex gf who was back then hot and heavy into me. i jack off, and then snoop around and find a bitcoin wallet with ~500 btc in it. i go to spend it... and discover... that i know no nodes... ☟︎
mircea_popescu: on the internet"), the closest thing is google-ish "advertising bidding" whereby google presents you with some details about a click and you have less than 300 ms to make a bid, which it matches and delivers ; b) is VERY likely to cause major delays. your system would, on the basis of pissguessing, require hourlong blocks or somesuch.
mircea_popescu: a fifth, major point is that the current ~ten minute blocks are predicated on loose coupling of "casks" (current situation can be deemed to be that all miners roll infinity of casks at all times to all comers, and all pubkeys are nil) and no negotiation whatsoever occurring either downward or backward. the dual-negotiation system you propose instead a) has never been tried in practice (which practically reduces to "can't work
mircea_popescu: refore it's always that bids depend on asks, if either depends on either (ie, if the market is very new) at all. the evolution of the eulora market is very instructive in this vein, see for instance http://trilema.com/memoranda-and-shit-like-1800s-high-diplomacy
mircea_popescu: a fourth, minor point, is that you have your market primitives ass-backwards. no price formation is ever envisaged to have "asks may depend on bids" as an edulcoration of "asks are fixed ; bids are fixed" because it is always possible to produce a pricing function for the product (based on cost) whereas it's never possible to produce a pricing function for the demand (demand is a psychological, not a physical phenomenon). the ☟︎
mircea_popescu: moreover i think the original satoshi design wrt to this aspect is actually very wise ; and my expectation (as per say http://trilema.com/2013/bitcoind-not-quite-ready-for-prime-time/#selection-77.298-77.516 ) is that i should be able to make block-filling txn if i feel like it.
mircea_popescu: a third, and rather major, problem is that you will have serious trouble creating fixed width transactions in general. the reason is that the amount of information itself varies ; you can pretend to push this inconvenience all the way to the user ("hey, always use two inputs and two outputs and fu!") but it's somewhat unlikely to ever stick. ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: moreover you even want it to invalidate blocks, which is certainly too much. how is a node to even know.
mircea_popescu: (fellow was trusted by "everyone" to have best infos as to the situation in europe ; when he offered half price for the bond tranche everyone erroneously decided napoleon had won.)
mircea_popescu: if however i offer half the "current price" for a share, i am not so engaging. moreover the case exists in history, for instance at the root of the rotschild fortune
mircea_popescu: there's a different, much less notable problem wrt to what constitutes "a rotten fill". if i go to the stock market (i mean the old, gentlemany, pit of hand gestures thing) and bid "sentiments" for a certain share, i am in fact engaging in retarded behaviour, on the level of sjwing, and will, and should be kicked out. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: to demand miner makes a certified statement to the effect of "offset 0xa to 0xb in block y is reserved for txn 0xc" is putting a constraint on this p2p system the likes of which it can't conceivably bear. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: there's a reason a man will fuck ~any woman he encounters naked or in any even vague kind of peri-nude state. without this property, reproduction'd have long ago failed. there's similarily a reason miners currently accept absolutely any txn into a pool of liquid shit.
mircea_popescu: nd disciplined 1:1 casks and fills ratio strictly declared at arbitrary points in time.
mircea_popescu: there's a major problem with the very tight coupling your write-up may be read to envisage wrt cask filling. there are, as far as reality goes, two lists : a list of available txn slots in blocks, which is fixed and aforeknown, and a list of desired txn, which is neither fixed nor truly aforeknown. the workers moving the latter into the former (miners + nodes) are necessarily going to have serious trouble doing a very fixed a
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re your piece (you know if you had intelligently published it ON YOUR OWN BLOG i could have left a comment there instead, and in a year or whenever this were to be reviewed we wouldn't have to go grepping the logs like idiots) :
mircea_popescu: wtf "nothing sexual happens". in a fucking theatre ? that's insanity. ☟︎
ben_vulpes: also something something mildly transgressive with the homostuff
trinque: and thus I lost interest entirely
trinque: yeah that makes sense
ben_vulpes: i guess there were raves as well
ben_vulpes: trinque: horny teen girls need a culturally sanctioned place to be horny in public, 'twas the best most of america had post y2k
ben_vulpes: i don't much know about paths out, but hatred is definitely the fuel for the torch i use to burn a moat around my tiny castle.
trinque: ben_vulpes: lady friend tried to explain rocky horror to me once, did not make it through my thick skull
trinque: not the only ingredient of sanity, but it clears the field.
a111: Logged on 2017-02-21 22:48 mircea_popescu: and then she hates her parents.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-02-21#1616404 << comes to mind ☝︎
trinque: to anyone born in a cultural sewer, hatred is along every path out, even/especially the laziest one.
trinque: that the character which embodies this is "AI" is not important; it's behavior is entirely human
trinque: while harlan ellison is still on the mind, to a young trinque, his story was one of the first (yes) indications that total rejection of others was a thing.
trinque: I'll be up early with a fresh mind to read.
asciilifeform: trinque this is the casks thing.
mircea_popescu: ay, ima go do things to people now. will read it tomorro.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yeah, on 2nd thought it probably does not belong there. But at least is clearly marked as not belonging !111
mircea_popescu: eh she couldn't have been that fucking retarded.
phf: trinque: it's double entendre in a musical form. she's singing about a girl who likes lollipops, but of course everyone know what the author (gainsbourg) ment. later she grew up a bit and had a falling out with gainsbourg once she learned the trick
mircea_popescu pictures trinque in beatles uniform, "michelle... i don't speak the language... but i can perceive the hole..."
trinque: I don't speak the language, man, but I saw the lollipops
mircea_popescu: trinque they're not cocks, they're soucettes!
mircea_popescu: but that monroe / lemmon thing is prolly descriptive enough
trinque: my god the dancing cocks
mircea_popescu: at least if henry miller is to be believed.
mircea_popescu: 40s. 40s is fucking big band / andrews sisters and nobody giving a shit about getting the clap.
phf: i actually thought that shangri la clip was from the 40s or something, hence the "serge gainsbourg later ..." :o
mircea_popescu: in the background, there's this steve martin - kathleen turner movie in which she's a black widow and he's a brain surgeon. woman has nice legs and a fine disposition ; what a fucking waste of a reel.
mircea_popescu: "bitch, i bet you didn't even get your cock sucked until i taught your mistress how."
mircea_popescu: makes it real hard to take any "conservatives" seriously dunnit.
trinque: my god she turned sideways and sorta wiggled
mircea_popescu: they at least have the common sense to whisper rather than squeal. how the fuck people manage to put up with the squeal is beyond me, but if this is music why not fuck pigs.
trinque: the weird sexual constipation that thought this was racy
mircea_popescu finds fake lesbian teeny bopper "show me the money" russian frauds much more appealing.
mircea_popescu: it's a wonder they're not in turtlenecks.
phf: i like their clip for shout, because of mary weiss's budding woman come ons. serge gainsbourg will later take it into very roman polansky territory with his yeye girls.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thEKxFNCuT4
trinque: wtf is that bun on her head
trinque: I waited the whole fucking video!
mircea_popescu: check out the bike tricks the dude does.
mircea_popescu: there's no general rule two bit crack whore can't do an epic strip number.
mircea_popescu: im not even sure it's terrible, the piece. but the author is certainly this mercenary hack, would-be-copywriter-if-anyone-were-hiring sort.
trinque: cheap porn did too, and for similar reasons
trinque: liking the pulp? nah, the misanthropy fit my early teens just fine.
mircea_popescu: trinque nothing wrong with that, is there ?
mircea_popescu: might as well be connected to "far east spirituality", seeing how it's just about the same thing, bored, idle and useless middle class cali chicks trying to find something to do with themselves that would still be useless and improductive.
phf: i'm thinking klezmorim as reinterpreted through the 60s do your own thing prism, "happenings", clown with an accordion being "playful" and "weird". it's hard for me to fully connect this line because the whole scene is repulsive
mircea_popescu: there was an actual ro/ukr folk thing in the late 1800s, however.
mircea_popescu: course if youi mean the 1970s bs, then you're just about right.
mircea_popescu: he's just trying to sell some cheetos.
mircea_popescu: but it's improper to link him to klezmer like it's improper to link hot topic to "teenage angst".
mircea_popescu: and yankovic was iconic at some point in the (late) 80s
asciilifeform: with the little caveat that he had ~0 input into the game design
phf: there's one nice thing that came out of harlan ellison, https://www.mobygames.com/game/i-have-no-mouth-and-i-must-scream
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dont worry about it, people routinely read 5k+ word trilema pieces, and they're not even specifically about something.
mircea_popescu: or yes, ninjashogun for that matter.
mircea_popescu: think harlan ellison, or the fucktard that started scientology.
phf: asciilifeform: the usual 5 people on the channel, and the one dedicated shadow NSA agent that's assigned to this channel
BingoBoingo: phf: You aren't missing anything. The problem is your brain is working.
asciilifeform thinks 'holy fuck is the trb-i article looooong;' who will have the strength, to read this.
phf: i don't understand weird al. it's some weird post-hippy take on klezmer, but i feel like i'm missing something, some kind of intermediate step
trinque: indeed, I see the guy's session though and I screwed something up last update