log☇︎
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asciilifeform: then you sit for three days and finally realize that never do you need more than 2MB for it.
asciilifeform: it is tremendously painful, at first glance, e.g, 'wanna parse blocks?' 'fine, determine now the maximal space that will EVER be occupied by the process, and put it Right Here Forever'
asciilifeform: i will note that in domains where The Thing Must Work, Motherfuckers, e.g., spacecraft, (traditionally) heaps are forbidden.
asciilifeform: and inability to remove anything procedurally from mempool, say
asciilifeform: hence the 'wait for locks to expire!' idiocies
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 90% of the retardation of trb is that objects live in heap and are all part of a massive ball of yarn, linked to one another
mircea_popescu: tho trb was made to adhere pretty closely.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: nope. ben_vulpes is actually running the churn, on his (working) btctron, i deliberately left it to him
Framedragger: yeah this is a big wtf.
mircea_popescu: it's not a minor point given that no bitcoin implementation is currently known that DOES in fact run within a defined memory footprint.
Framedragger: did you already have a chance to check if there are any tx collisions in the 32 bit address scheme? just curious ☟︎
Framedragger: yeah! i imagine it's gonna be tremendous and yuge :) (but seriously, compared to userspace fs....)
asciilifeform: and that a btctron can run in a constant, defined memory footprint
asciilifeform: idea is simply to demonstrate sane storage and indexing.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: i specifically did not, the scripts are left alone, the blocks are verified only in the very limited sense of mechanical format (lengths do not fandango out of buffer limits, etc)
Framedragger: yeah i wanted to ask how you managed to implement script stuff in this amount of time but i guess no need to parse scripts to have definitive view of all tx
asciilifeform: ^ the other half, the hard half, is largely the actual script execution / cryptolade.
asciilifeform: ( it slowly dawned on me, that a proper block eater is perhaps half of an entire btctron... )
asciilifeform: anybody other than asciilifeform have a working gnat toolchain yet ?
asciilifeform: after it also demonstrates the indexing algo from last week, i'ma vgenesisate it and post.
Framedragger: ^ that's pretty kewl.
asciilifeform: in other noose, 'nqb' now eats, parses, blocks and tx, correctly, and HEAPLESSly
asciilifeform: that thing also runs various housekeeping systems, aside from trb. like a champ.
mircea_popescu: well, i guess that's a serious reason then
asciilifeform: thing is the size of a grown man's fist, also.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: zoolag, the more reliable of my 2 nodez, has 4GB total !
mircea_popescu: max the cache and that's that.
mircea_popescu: honestly, it should just be a patch. there's no serious reason to allow the usage of trb on tiny boxes
asciilifeform: ( i'd much rather that bdb simply went away. but this may take a while. )
asciilifeform: davout, mircea_popescu : probably the bdb cache thing oughta become a command line knob.
asciilifeform: the 'odometer' patch will show the change in timing
davout: aha, thanks for the tip, i do have 16gb on the hdd-only box
asciilifeform: (i recommend a box with at least 16GB installed, to use this)
asciilifeform: also if you have a consistent empty 4GB of memory, you can apply my cache patch (not yet an official vpatch, but it is a 1liner, ups bdb's cache to max) ☟︎
asciilifeform: davout: if you have a box with a ssd ~and~ traditional disks, put the debug log on the traditional
davout: so far it blocks for a while on the 'getinfo' call, but seems to still be up to date
mircea_popescu: yes but if you are then it can't unlive on dev/null
asciilifeform: also there'll be the debug log
mircea_popescu: for bitcoin, yes. and mind that it's >128gb already.
davout: we'll see how that goes i guess, i was kinda wondering whether i should get a ssd-equipped server anyway
asciilifeform: not the block writing
asciilifeform: davout: the tx index is the issue
davout: seems quite curious, it'd intuitively seem like the block would be written in one single pass, and then the db might spend time on reads to connect transactions to their parents, but writes... wtf
asciilifeform: if it weren't for the screaming insanity of bdb, you could theoretically 'elevator algorithm' the disk accesses
asciilifeform: the interesting bit is that the problem vanishes on ssd
davout: yeah i followed all that, didn't realize it was the ~writes~ clogging up everything
davout: you don't mean reads? when verifying individual txes?
asciilifeform: davout: see logs. it's when the thing grinds to a halt while verifying block, while waiting for 1,000,001 random disk writes to complete
asciilifeform: davout: ideally this would take some other form than everybody hanging off my particular node
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 12:12 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627304 << a box like that will have hour-long blockindexdb blackholes
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627318 <<< what are those? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 12:04 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627306 << it worx great for zoolag-to-dulap, and ben_vulpes , trinque are also on ssh wires, no bug reports so far
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski http://trilema.com/2010/bai-mi-e-lene/ << tried that one ?
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/how-to-be-a-pimp-the-simple-comprehensible-and-exhaustive-guide/ << Trilema - How to be a pimp - the simple, comprehensible and exhaustive guide
pete_dushenski: i seem to be a sucker for those :/
mircea_popescu: you get bonus comparison then. not to mention the end product is half notes (i think this is one of the "absolutely hardest to translate that can still be translated" category)
pete_dushenski: this was in ro, yes ? (i seem to recall poorly translating it at one point)
mircea_popescu: anyway, working on "how to be a pimp" guide, secrets revealed.
mircea_popescu: i'm like "i know i fucking read this in english! WTF WHERE IS IT!!!1"
mircea_popescu: o she did! excellet! ty.
mircea_popescu: b41e209ccc264812 may take a while.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you remember me translating the "feminine exceptionalism" article recently ? i can't fucking find it but im pretty sure i did
b41e209ccc264812: no particular field. I am interested in general as what might be on your reading lists. Some of the concepts and topics you discuss are very interesting. But sometimes I find myself lacking background information and decided to start from somewhere
mircea_popescu: well, just as long as they don't have to do what they don't wanna do, i guess.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'resistance through culture' (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform whassat ? "being what we'd have called nazi and a threat to our democracy had trump lost" ?
b41e209ccc264812: I have been reading your site/blog too, but will for the time being concentrate on trilema. and worke my way from there
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the monkey circus, https://archive.is/ekC3l >> 'responsible disobedience' didjaknow.
b41e209ccc264812: thanks Pete. I am still doing trilema.com for now. ☟︎
pete_dushenski: b41e209ccc264812: this is pretty up to date, if angled from my particular lens http://www.contravex.com/2015/07/28/petes-mega-recommended-reading-list/
mircea_popescu: that was teh problem of the pcus, see, they kept trying to social media at the elite. they should have social media'd at the shrimps.
mircea_popescu: and they never fucking remember the previous set of перерасход план!!111 headlines
mircea_popescu: jurov no see the point is for it to clog
mircea_popescu: pushing dat female alt-reality hard to dat twit audience.
mircea_popescu: but lulzy twitter account anyway. http://archive.is/QI0vI/76e3921ab5bdd66b6f2aeec94015e880d514d6dc.jpg <-> http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-in-argentina-exactly-nothing-to-do-with-the-derps/ etc.
mircea_popescu: davout somehow the retard's excuse always is "i'm not the only retard btw". which is a shockingly safe bet not to mention kinda begging the question... OF FUCKING COURSE pointless & witless demographically dominate. but somehow this seems novel and refreshing to them.
asciilifeform: ( tx index rather )
asciilifeform: ssd is the only complete pill against this, thus far
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 06:46 davout: my trb node is finally synced up, took approx ~2.5 months on a smallish server without an SSD
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627304 << a box like that will have hour-long blockindexdb blackholes ☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: it's exactly like the 'nologin' util ~except~ that it doesn't hang up.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 07:51 jurov: re: mircea_popescu 's constellation: since fuckoff.c never reads, it is possible for pipe to get clogged if the other side is sending anything
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627307 << jurov look how ssh does port forwarding. it doesn't USE the normal shell part for anything. the whole POINT of fuckoff.c is to clog, and work as a 'stopper' for shell access ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 06:47 davout: is the 'wires' patch still considered useful?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-15#1627306 << it worx great for zoolag-to-dulap, and ben_vulpes , trinque are also on ssh wires, no bug reports so far ☝︎☟︎
jurov: and i doubt very much openssh has any extra code to avoid this situation
jurov: re: mircea_popescu 's constellation: since fuckoff.c never reads, it is possible for pipe to get clogged if the other side is sending anything ☟︎
davout: is the 'wires' patch still considered useful? ☟︎
davout: my trb node is finally synced up, took approx ~2.5 months on a smallish server without an SSD ☟︎
BingoBoingo: On that note Imma sleep. Good night my fellow butt trusted servants of the Republic
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: who then
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Apparently we were not first on the heathenwebz, but first outlet of note.
mircea_popescu: in that case...
asciilifeform: btw BingoBoingo this is a '0day scoop', afaik discussed nowhere.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I am not welcome in that heathen pit
BingoBoingo contrary to popular belief not an all seeing eye.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: maybe try this piece in the heathen pits ( 'thedonald' etc )
BingoBoingo: For serious. Loving this submissions from other people business.
mircea_popescu: the significant point, of course, being that the female state DOESNT EVEN DARE ADMIT IT. just like working class mom not buying kid shoes because $reasons, rather than because "i was too dumb when i was 20 to not be poor now that i'm 35 and look like 49, honey."
mircea_popescu: some prime rib coming via mail to qntra these days