asciilifeform: <ben_vulpes> ... like that cemetary caretaker, eh? << if you know what his weapon of choice was, share - it would add some spiffy detail to the legend
asciilifeform: <jurov> maybe the only difference is computer science was constructed from mathematical (or not very mathematical, like strings) ideas ... << the notion that computing machines, as presently constructed, have some direct connection with what maths folks did in the 1930s is nebulous at best. even if commonly believed
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> usg.nsa loves "virtualization", but it's by no means the only way to skin that cube << the only reason why they so easily sell this flavour of snake oil is that virtualizator gets you 'cpu cycles by the pound' and buckets of little arm boxes - don't (why not? because we never actually invented parallel processing or, especially, process migration. apparently. at least, unix world did not.)
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> other than that, aglass of water is a computational machine << in the same sense as a fart, or even two electrons whizzing by in vacuum, are a computing machine. us earthlings are interested, for this reason, in -programmable- computators.
asciilifeform: jurov: ...there are new miniitx mobos with ECC support... << where?! link plz. i'd buy at least one to try☟︎
asciilifeform: aha context must've been a comparison with fiat?
asciilifeform cannot comment in detail, has no personal experience with then outside of machine shop tooling
asciilifeform: the one consumer crud item which (i am told) behaves in a similar way is - diamonds.
asciilifeform: but back to the machines, because i consider this a mega-educational moment - there are countless instruments where you can pay, e.g., 10k on 'ebay' but you can also pay 800k if you want new, with support contract, for the mandatory softs to not be considered pirated, etc., etc., (most of this is strictly usg)
asciilifeform: there would be a 300 usd bmw if a) 500 people knew of bmw b) machine could only be driven on 100 particular race courses c) by a ph.d. or equiv. d) running on virgin piss
asciilifeform: but engineers who take an intense interest in 'in the end' tend to build autoguillotines.☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in the end, the amoeba get the voice.
asciilifeform: ^ it immediately caught my eye when saw it
asciilifeform: but also for many other reasons, which i will not waste readers' time on.
asciilifeform: partly because perl proggies tend to be 'throw-aways' and absolve the author of the burden of actually carrying anything through to completion or (horror) supporting
asciilifeform: partly because it allows imbeciles to feel as if they are 'sticking the finger' to those boring 'squares' who actually take the time to think things through
asciilifeform: partly because it makes a convincing simulacrum of problem-solving, as (per naggum) hollywood special effects 'may as well be the real thing'
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: it is a mistake to describe perl as 'based on' anything in particular. it is soup, consisting of the entire contents of a crashed delivery van. soup reflective of what is to be found in the author's skullcase.
asciilifeform: think this way - if the problem were entirely contained in an -available- set of abstractions of the language, the program would not need to be written!☟︎
asciilifeform: trinque: but basic idea is that single-tasking, single-threaded box was inherently responsive
asciilifeform: trinque: this is not a difficult standard to achieve
asciilifeform: i don't want to buy the office chair that is successful in cheaply making infinite copies of itself into the aeons. not unless it also parks my arse well.
asciilifeform: nature's criterion of 'works' and mine, i will say, are not at all alike.
asciilifeform: i just can't help but recall kreinin's piece re: how folks who are asking for meat-like architecture 'whether they want a tool, or electronic best friend or sex partner' and asked whether 'they had tried the selection of naturally-occurring ones first'
asciilifeform: because designers did practically nuke the analogue soup. (yes, ram failures, etc. exist.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's so deeply baked into the structure of the world, you'll never be free of it. << johnson noise, shot noise, etc. are intrinsic to electrical circuit. yet we have to sweat and build whole other box to get pc to cough up random bits.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... there must be a reason for this. << same reason eagle doesn't have jet with afterburner in his arse
asciilifeform: seems like we've achieved a great many of these, in the computer...
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> that may be. i'm just pointing out that biology offers a very significant challenge to theoretical cs. << i must confess, that i am at a loss as to which aspects of meat we should like to replicate in machines: intransigence? toe fungus? pneumonia? schizophrenia?☟︎
asciilifeform: one without the other - is drowning in shit.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if we get the stochasticity of meat, we also need to have the wide functional state space of meat.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: basic idea, perhaps, is that systems designed 'step at a time' by 'practical types' without any clear line of reason - will converge to resemble meat.
asciilifeform tries to picture a variant where 'where, why' is accessible
asciilifeform: ea how far into the process you got or how much of an incomplete task was actually performed. in my view, serious programmers don't deal with tools that _force_ them to hope everything works.' -- herr naggum who else
asciilifeform: 'certain languages support serious programmers, and others don't. e.g., I don't think it is at all possible to become a serious programmer using Visual Basic or Perl. if you think hard about what Perl code will do on the borders of the known input space, your head will explode. if you write Perl code to handle input problems gracefully, your programs will become gargantuan: the normal failure mode is to terminate with no id☟︎
asciilifeform: (will note, for completeness, that this won't fly on, e.g., embedded chip with 32kB. but most of the usual suspects aren't stuck on one such)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: concept alluded to was 'fits in head.' i suppose this is a good time and place to note that it can be accomplished in three basic ways: a) small system b) big head c) powerful hydraulic press
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this'd all benefit from a lot more documentation << which 'this'
asciilifeform: also visited a place where they did sputtering.
asciilifeform: the vacuum pumps (all stages) appeared to be built into the cabinet, however.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: it also matters, for what. usually these things need 3-phase mains, cooling water, often - a handy dewar with ln2, maintenance contract, etc.
asciilifeform: item in the chamber was, i think, a dragonfly
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: creature in the photo is pet, not owner of instrument
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al ^^^ mega-inflationary-l0lz4tr0n
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=25-04-2015#1110941 << interestingly, i asked about the cost. was told something like '$1m for the old style, 2.5 for the new generation.' fella said this with straight face, too, as if there were nothing remarkable about this factoid.☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: (if computing is any guide of the quantity and sheer vomitrous power of fecalia people can be persuaded to swallow)
asciilifeform: i mention it because i can imagine a world where such clocks are considered not only acceptable, but 'state of the art' and 'best practice'☟︎
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: almost made the mistake of trying to catch the planes by that clock, but realized in time.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: that clock i bought from the street spammer works about as well as ought to be expected. sometimes stops for 2,3,4,5+ hours - then runs... then, again...
asciilifeform: trinque: doctor sometimes tells patient hard truths about where the latter is headed. but doctor can dispense dope to ease the pain. this is hard to do over irc.
asciilifeform: trinque: '... if you actually cause them to understand it in the course of a discussion, you will only make them miserable and hate their lives. People are pretty good at detecting that this is a likely outcome of thinking, and it takes conscious effort to brace yourself and get through such experiences.'
asciilifeform tried 'opensparc' and a number of smaller things, but not this
