log☇︎
200900+ entries in 1.517s
undata: Adlai: it turns out there are a few of those
Adlai: yes, and they're not looking for a hash database
undata: git and others are a damned hash database
asciilifeform: (the canonical representation can be taken and stuffed into a git repo, or darcs, or cvs, whatever, for your personal pleasure)
asciilifeform: try to understand why a git repo cannot be the canonical representation.
asciilifeform: but it is only a tool that some people prefer to use. a 'git' or other similar gizmo will not be the authoritative representation of bitcoind.
asciilifeform: it even, iirc, comes with a gpg signing gizmo
assbot: Logged on 13-11-2014 16:38:23; asciilifeform: Adlai: darcs << as a military man, perhaps you are familiar with systems that could be automated easily, but aren't? e.g., ru nuke sub controls
Adlai: https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=Adlai << so, while the current contributors' reasons for not using git[hub] are understandable, i'll leave this up and perhaps update it at my leisure, in case it'll be useful to anybody inhabiting a separate region on the paranoia/lazyness continuum
asciilifeform l0lz that folks are using 'phuctor' as a key viewer
asciilifeform: (only updates when someone craps a key in)
mircea_popescu: "Lest this all seem merely amusing, meditate on the fate of those who have tampered with words before. The behaviorists ruined words like "behavior", "response", and especially, "learning". They now pl-ay happily in a dream world, internally consistent but lost to science."
Adlai: i only set up gpg auth a few weeks ago
Adlai: a stricter form of identity verification would require breaching *both*, rather than either, or only one
asciilifeform: get a hammer, leave microscope alone.
mircea_popescu: the only proper way to use bitcoin addresses as identification correctly is to run a never-connected node that has no balance.
asciilifeform: one could in principle maintain a bitcoin 'keypair' for the purpose of abusing it for public key signatures
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not even getting into these technical discussion : getting people to use their credit cards as identification paperwork is a bad idea.
asciilifeform: whether this particular microscope is fit for use as a hammer, depends on two very separate questions - what you think of ecdsa, and what you think of bitcoind
assbot: A summary of changes to Bitcoin since 0.3.21
mircea_popescu: http://cascadianhacker.com/blog/2014/10/20_a-summary-of-changes-to-bitcoin-since-0321.html#fn.24 there.
mircea_popescu: Our biggest concern is the welfare of children who appear on this site. {Site name redacted} has a ZERO tolerance policy for rape or
asciilifeform: but from the article, it sounds deeply reminiscent of a similar turd, 'cyberselfish'
Adlai: or it could specialcase finding only a single result
jurov: wow that discussion... rather novel restatement of the question whether a soul exists
mircea_popescu: rather than a universal problem
mircea_popescu: yup. it works as a trap for particular people
asciilifeform: unless there was a lizards-only 0th conference...
cazalla: Eliza needs a footnote?
assbot: I don’t know what the hell I said. I gave her an ultimatum and there’s nothing I can do. It’s a machine. The little light is blinking right now: ‘Come and listen to the idiot. Hey everybody, the idiot’s on!’ pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/i-dont-know-what-the-hell-i-said-i-gave-her-an-ultimatum-and-theres-nothing-i-can-do-its-a-machine-the-little-light-is-blinking-right-now-come-and-listen-to-the-idiot-hey-everybody-the-i/
asciilifeform: not that i personally give a damn whether a particular honeypot is artificial or 'wild.'
asciilifeform: at any rate, the incentive for the buggers to fabricate 'terrorist atrocities' is so overwhelming, that any such item is guilty until proven innocent of being just such a crock of shit.
asciilifeform: what is a honeypot if not each and every criminal undertaking that steps outside of its 'wot' ?
asciilifeform: cazalla: the whole thing exists only as a honeypot, even when it doesn't.
cazalla: what are the odds such a site is a honey pot?
assbot: While Markets Get Seized: Pedophiles Launch a Crowdfunding Site - Deep Dot Web
cazalla: ignoring the paedos, i thought this was a good model for a porn site http://www.deepdotweb.com/2014/11/09/as-drug-markets-are-seized-pedophiles-launch-a-crowdfunding-site/
asciilifeform: (for n00bs only: who is 'lizard hitler' ? a character approximately as real as magnetic field lines were to michael faraday. don't look for magnetic field lines, they aren't there. physically. or as far as we can tell, anyway.) ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: if you visit wash.,d.c. you can see that in the '70s a good chunk of the place got 'detroit'ed.
asciilifeform: usa had a much closer shave before
asciilifeform: quite a few folks say 'ferguson' when discussion hypothetical phase transition, but i must disagree.
mircea_popescu: no, but her ability to continue in relevance is a strict function of how many mrs smith johnny perceives a day.
mircea_popescu: well, actually, i suspect old gals is more of a burden, but who knows.
mircea_popescu: sure. they also fuck her, then they go have a drink with the first gang, exchange impressions.
mircea_popescu: hires a different gang of thugs to... kill the first gang ?
mircea_popescu: suppose kim kardashian goes around drunk in the bad part of detroit, gets raped by a gang of thugs
mircea_popescu: Adlai you don't understand. there's nothing more readily cohesive of a group than hatred for old people.
Adlai: and i'm wondering what will happen once we have a MUCH wider age range of active individuals
mircea_popescu: 40yo male, with a buncha chicks. 20 yo male, in a group of derps.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's the normally sclerotic reaction of society to a dissolution of values
nubbins`: somewhere out there, a guy named langton is eating chips on the couch and watching seinfeld. again.
Adlai: :-o "millions long for immortality who don't know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon" by the guy who died on a Sunday afternoon
nubbins`: we're just starting from a really really complex initial state ;D
Adlai: of course. i'd say it's less a fear and more an underlying aspiration
mircea_popescu: Adlai i have no idea, but i suspect your conviction is more informed by a faint whiff of a personal desire to survive/fear of death than anything else.
Adlai: well my initial random was "certain within decades", but then I toned it down a few orders of fartitude
mircea_popescu: as opposed to moderately possible within a few thousand years ?
Adlai: they could with external support. maybe not today, but it's easily possible within a few hundred years.
nubbins`: asciilifeform i fell into a black hole halfway through my cs/math joint major on points like these
asciilifeform: and at the same time, the digits can be spat out by a very simple mechanism.
Adlai: you could roughly equate the queen of an ant colony to a human brain's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reticular_formation#Clinical_significance ?
nubbins`: i know people claim that there's an upper bound on the complexity that can form in a cellular-automaton-type system with simple rules
assbot: Logged on 14-11-2014 21:44:39; mircea_popescu: a good example would be, a spontaneous determination to build itself a house,
asciilifeform: undata: in fact, i recall that he had a character who is being marched to a mafia execution, and offered a magic pill before being shot. the pill wakes him up to the idea that his mind is already being simulated on a 'computer' made of space dust, somewhere, if only 'interpreted correctly'
nubbins`: i recall reading a young adult novel about intelligent crystals
mircea_popescu: well it all started with you asking for a definition of ai.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, see, it's not a black box.
undata: seems a lot that passes for human intelligence is driven by autonomous processes evolution carved into us, just like the ant
asciilifeform: this goes back to my complaint about the ai wishers. they aren't asking for 'intelligence', just a mechanical but recognizable version of themselves
asciilifeform: the way that my 4 walls are a repeating cycle of moves to me.
asciilifeform: who am i to say that a repeating cycle of moves is not 'house' for the automaton.
mircea_popescu: say if you showed this process to 1k randomly selected 5 yos, would they say "it built itself a house" ?
asciilifeform: same way you identify a house as a house.
mircea_popescu: how do you identify a highway as a house ?
asciilifeform: what we know is that everyone who ever tried langton's ant, notices that he always 'builds a road'
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> if the machine ends up housed within a house of its own making at the end of a process which was not either understood or its endpoint predictable by observers, well... iut;'s intelligent. <<< mis lados!!
asciilifeform: see, we can take this into a place you probably did not intend to go:
mircea_popescu: if the machine ends up housed within a house of its own making at the end of a process which was not either understood or its endpoint predictable by observers, well... iut;'s intelligent.
mircea_popescu: a good example would be, a spontaneous determination to build itself a house, ☟︎
asciilifeform: (from a hypothetical 'ai')
mircea_popescu: well, the only way to build one may be to first build a planet, then let cnc evolve.
asciilifeform: that is, a favourite preoccupation of crackpots of all stripes, and from the whole spectrum of scientific literacy - but no results.
asciilifeform: the 'super-turing' machine remains a mystical unicorn.
asciilifeform: (of course, a gensym, if not garbage collected, also occupies a cell of memory)
asciilifeform: so, in principle, if the machine were to do nothing but cough up 'gensyms' for a few millenia, you will exhaust memory.
asciilifeform: common lisp numeric tower is a bignum tower
asciilifeform: typically implemented using a counter
asciilifeform: (gensym) just coughs up a guaranteed-unique object.
asciilifeform: a 'nut' or 'bolt' that i use daily.
asciilifeform: it's a humble tool, no ai to it at all
asciilifeform: creates a symbol with no meaning other than identity (cannot add, subtract it, it only has a name and the only permitted operation is determination of identity)
mircea_popescu: o for sure, im not even getting into the point of the article. i just went on a tangent for objection reasons, like i do.
asciilifeform: what 'ai and stupidity' was about, was an actual pestilence of pseudoscience, where folks convinced themselves and others that they were accomplishing 'great things' while really pulling each other's dicks in a most stultifying way
asciilifeform: the one where not a single thing about the circuit made sense to the human dissector
mircea_popescu: mp's lemma of artificial intelligence requires any computer program that exhibits in fact ai to depend in its functioning on the naming of its functions, and that self-metaprogramming be a part of its working.
undata: nubbins`: flashback to 19, tripping like hell, trying to find a firm thought to stand upon
mircea_popescu: and the brain is in no sense and to no degree a logic processing machine.
nubbins`: and somewhere, somewhen, the sound of keys clacking on a keyboard was heard
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform are you a current dreaming it's frying a butterfgly etc