log☇︎
197200+ entries in 0.113s
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/04/twin-suicides-grip-usian-psyche/ << Qntra - Twin Suicides Grip USian Psyche
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: in related news, Last night I saw a baby bunny hopping through the yard adorably darting in and out of cover. This morning I find bits of baby bunny fur scattered in a narrow open area between structures. Cat 1 Breeders 0
asciilifeform: i dun need to know what lincoln had for breakfast every day of his life, to say 'scum'.
asciilifeform: because assessing scummitude -- of man, or entire empire -- does not require 'eating the whole egg'.
asciilifeform: it, as mircea_popescu likes to say, 'does not prevail!111'
asciilifeform: incidentally this was the very substance of , iirc, nixon's argument to somebody re why he ought to bow. 'you don't have access to the mega-seekritz, how can you know that i am scum'
asciilifeform: just as mircea_popescu didn't care to bow to brezhnev. ( regardless of how fragmentary was his picture of how -- precisely -- brezhnev's palace decisionmaking conveyor worked. )
asciilifeform: the alternative is what, exactly ? bow and to suck the cock of his holiness obummer ?
mircea_popescu: ie, in tl;dr terms : shooting for an inexistent crime the only politician who provably did not engage in it this century.
a111: Logged on 2017-04-19 16:14 asciilifeform: to an extent
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-04-19#1646126 << this, incidentally, is SHOCKINGLY false. when polling the rat in the box, his clue as to how the empire is being run is very very nil. i get this is counterintuitive, but get this : romanians thought the same "common sense" nonsense and ended up with http://trilema.com/2011/procesul-ceausescu/ ☝︎
asciilifeform: possible that already.
mircea_popescu: (this is not necessarily speaking of catastrophe -- humans are much more likely to progressively mutilate themselves into unrecognizability than to just extinct)
mircea_popescu: point of fact, they prolly made it for longer than humans will.
asciilifeform: ( it was surprising in vs . mice! not in the absolute. rodents are pretty interesting imho. )
mircea_popescu: in the sense computer "is deterministic machine", so is human brain. "oh OF COURSE he'll get out of rain, what!"
asciilifeform: we're talking of deterministic machine, neh.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the q of 'live there people sufficiently non-stupid to make alternative' is separate from 'is there alternative'
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform is in the process of exterminating some squirrels and finding them to be surprisingly clever )
mircea_popescu: and don't open the pandora's box of "imagine" lest you fall under a hail of arrows wrt irl "alternatives" in compouting.
asciilifeform: for that, brain of squirrel suffices.
mircea_popescu: no, but it gives you enough sense to not write your minesweeper applet in such a way as to import netbase.
asciilifeform: i can see how mircea_popescu might like to imagine that it does.
mircea_popescu: of course there's alternative. what the fuck do you suppose a classical education is for ?
mircea_popescu: this is what the psychology crowd wants to sell, at any rate.
asciilifeform: 'meat' methods in comp engineering are not objectionable because 'meat methods', approximations, but because there is ALTERNATIVE there.
asciilifeform: e.g. i've not been chums with obummer. but know a bit what it is like to live in obummerdom.
mircea_popescu: oh, we're assuming you'd be privy to that ? "how he runs it" is a box open to your inspection ?
mircea_popescu: moreover here's a different spot of trouble -- suppose a-friend-who-is-not-me has the remarkable bad fortune of beign crowned/acclaimed god-emperor of everything. did thereby his previous a-ok "long hand" now become a very unok "empire" and consequently he's supposed to do what ? leave them behind and move over to washington to be trumped ? or how's the logic here work.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suppose this is then the root of difference.
mircea_popescu: so the 1k or so transgender freaks got a seat at the table, mostly for religious reasons
mircea_popescu: 2004, you recall, wash bush, and a very power hungry and not yet paintsuited abomination running up and down the country trying to create some sort of "future democrat alliance"
asciilifeform: 'In the Spring of 2003, J. Michael Bailey...'
mircea_popescu: or whatever they called that low rent ny pub where faggots for the first time fought back against the pigs.
mircea_popescu: at the time -- this was no empire. it's more or less the transgender stonewall inn moment
mircea_popescu: this is a valid point -- except note that lynn's excuised by it.
asciilifeform: the one where the latter weapon is 'ecologically' catastrophic, in that it fattens the empire.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu does not see diff b/w 'getting' a d00d shot with mircea_popescu's very long hand, vs campaigning to have d00d declared 'enemy of the people' with kgb anon denunciations ?
mircea_popescu: after all, every european ALSO had a concept of that.
mircea_popescu: and if tomorrow i get in an argument with some idiot and shoot him, will you be all "dude, you shouldn't shoot people" ?
asciilifeform: ( i read his b00k, but have ~0 position on his crackpottery 1 way or another. this is about something quite else. )
mircea_popescu: yes, i'm aware there's a something awful that twenty years ago used to be a sort of cat-v for socialist tards etcetera. yes i'm aware the "climate science" pseudoscientards had some mailing list they coordinated their nonsense on etc.
asciilifeform: read link re what conway did/does to bailey.
mircea_popescu: yes, but you also are mixing in a personal "kgb == gender activism in the us", which...
asciilifeform: ratted ? then -- rat.
asciilifeform: every serious flavour of european had this concept. 'you just don't ~do~ that.' 'you don't rat to kgb.'
mircea_popescu: well yes, this much we had half hour ago. the whys dun seem to be working out too well though.
asciilifeform: who doesn't want to -- obviously, i can't make'em. but asciilifeform goes, rate -1 conway, genderactivister.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you're serious you'll have no more or less reason than you had before. of course you'll doubt, what is this.
mircea_popescu: no. i will fuck five dollar crack whores every time i feel like it.
asciilifeform: i was specifically referring to 'after that, i had reason to doubt conway, and this projects backwards in time'
mircea_popescu: a world where "the superior with the superior and the inferior with the inferior" is the ideal female world of flat hierarchy.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: forget the jewwishwoman sense of the word, public discredit
mircea_popescu: "si quis, inquis, dives est" is all about that.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the superior can not be discredited from engaging the inferior on his own terms ; because THE ONLY POINT of superiority is that the superior gets to choose whether to superior or inferior, whereas the inferior gets no such choice, but must inferior.
asciilifeform: 'discredit' is the mental equiv. of negrate, 'set bozo bit', a very personal matter.
mircea_popescu: this discreditation theory is what well-meaning old jewish women teach entirely useless jewish boys, for the purpose of having jewish girls running around naked.
mircea_popescu: so then. am i thereby discredited, slavegirl will say "oh, i only want pencildick masters ?"
mircea_popescu: let us bring the matter to a trilema article. you've read the definition of the romanian expression "pai nu?" ?
asciilifeform: i bring it in, because imho the entire conflict does not look good for ~either~
a111: Logged on 2017-04-19 15:46 mircea_popescu: it's unfortunate that a schmuck who actually had the unmitigated audacity to tell people he is a "chair of blabla" was also so fucking clueless as to not know the foregoing, and truly expected he'll be playing with his dickie in the sand unfettered cca 2004. but then again -- this is the just desserts for sinking one's time and productive life in the idiotic line of chasing nonsense.,
mircea_popescu: right. which is exactly a restatement of the above comment re bailey.
asciilifeform: 'brought a knife to gun fight'
asciilifeform: this did not help v & co's life expectancies when ~they~ decided to politically battle.
mircea_popescu: i'm aware. hence the strawberry joke etc.
asciilifeform: also of interest possibly to mircea_popescu is that l & co worked on 'practical' items, how to optimize wheat, potato. v & co worked on flies.
mircea_popescu: iirc also true.
asciilifeform: writing denunciations on the opponents etc.
mircea_popescu: this is true.
asciilifeform: but the lie by omission, in this analysis, is : so did vavilov & co.
asciilifeform: and it is not difficult to paint like this, because d00d operated with pre-modern conceptions of genetic mechanism ( his was lamarck-style. )
asciilifeform: in 1990s-era 'expose' crapolade, the former is painted as 'devil', 'evil genius pseudoscientist', etc.
asciilifeform: let's briefly visit another time, place : the showdown between lysenko and vavilov. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: but, let the record reflect that i've myself done all that ; and will. i find it in no sense contradictory or mutually exclusive with understanding or the thought process generally.
mircea_popescu: now : it is not directly evident to me how one engineer riding chariots in battle and raping the women of a different tribe of chariot-riding idiots is in any sense disqualifying.
asciilifeform: ( has about as much to do with the original psychology as modern chinese 'communism', with lenin . )
mircea_popescu: sure. because guess what -- all transsexuals are whores, and this includes bailey.
mircea_popescu: it's unfortunate that a schmuck who actually had the unmitigated audacity to tell people he is a "chair of blabla" was also so fucking clueless as to not know the foregoing, and truly expected he'll be playing with his dickie in the sand unfettered cca 2004. but then again -- this is the just desserts for sinking one's time and productive life in the idiotic line of chasing nonsense., ☟︎
mircea_popescu: 6. the reabsorbtion of this unseemly polyp in the general discourse of lower-upper class was a necessary evolution, and hadn't it punctured through the whole "how dare you say man-women are whores!" it'd have punctured somewhere else. lightning strikles on the basis of charge not on the basis of dielectric failure. heck, it'll create the latter to serve the former.
mircea_popescu: 5. this resulted in a very strongly ~prescriptive~ pseudoscience, the fantasy of all "therapists" etc being that you go to them to acquire permission to be who you are. a sort of, if you will, slavery for infantile inept "masters", cheaply made and mass distributed.
mircea_popescu: 4. freud, jung and the rest of the "men going their own way" of the 1800s are exactly this - exponents of the minority bourgeois party trying to fashion a crystal ball "just as good" as the prevailing female construct (religion-blabla-etc) out of you know. this.
mircea_popescu: 3. abandoned in its only possible role (all pseudoscience can do is supply crystal balls for court magicians) by the dominating class (female culture is the larger part of lower-upper middle class culture for very fundamental reasons - they're genetically insufficient) it found a 2nd life among the smaller half.
asciilifeform: psychology was simply fashionable in '50s. today -- same role filled by other stillborn disciplines.
asciilifeform: the same folx switched later to faux-mathematics, faux-softwaredevelopment, etc.
mircea_popescu: it did not actually have the wings to fly, which is why the social group in question eventually settled on "charity" as briefly mentioned yest. the whys and wherefores are worthy of a volume, and quite well fleshed out, but we won't bother here.
mircea_popescu: 2. 1 notwithstanding, in the early phase of the post-industrialization lower-upper class (a faux construction consisting of lower class material enjoying upper class easements, pretensions and expectations) struggling with the question of what the fuck to do with themselves, "studying" "psychology" became a thing.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, alf is correct on one point : there is a painful spot in the history of psychology (the pseudoscience). let us delve : ☟︎
Framedragger: i did feel dirty writing the above lol
mircea_popescu: good thing mod6 is doing all this work so we can sit around reading inept reviews of even worse "research" in "psycology"
mircea_popescu: seems silly on the face of it.
mircea_popescu: you know, they don't actually require fishermen to cut off their legs because boat anyway.
mircea_popescu: the problem with this is that it won't allow you to see engineer-politicians, which is ALSO not compartimentalizable : it will force you to beedog, ie, not become as good as expression and telling women's original haircolor as you could, on the basis of your genetics say, actually be.
Framedragger: yeah, i can see that. compartments of the kind are always leaky. and it's natural to then distrust in general, etc. however, if you wanted to use this as an example why no tech career happened after, you'd be begging the question.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: other point is that involvement in a 'movement' characterized by organized intellectual dishonesty -- is not compartmentalizable. it makes me question the 'activist''s entire career.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: i have to agree re. 'movement' tho, yeah..
Framedragger: (the latter may signify that genderstuff is poison, sure.)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu can probably also tell how many years a wine aged by naked eye.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not true, no. can tell in almost all cases.
Framedragger: i don't know, i just see an engineer who did engineer work and contributions before and after gender transition; and a person who got caught into politics/issues of genderstuff after involving self in genderstuff. "meh" is my reaction.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: can only tell if the dye is poor, or runs, etc. was the idea.